Brother, I can't believe you're trying to offer some perspective by bringing up an MLB franchise from 100 years ago. The fact that we have to go back that far to match futility confirms my most brazen assumptions. Make that a 20 year playoff hiatus . . . .
*****Official Texas Rangers 2021 Season Thread*****
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Last: 3 yr ago by DeangeloVickers
For whom?South Platte said:
Brother, I can't believe you're trying to offer some perspective by bringing up an MLB franchise from 100 years ago. The fact that we have to go back that far to match futility confirms my most brazen assumptions. Make that a 20 year playoff hiatus . . . .
Stop moving the goal posts. You said "worst in sports history". I gave an example that refutes that. Last I checked, the Rangers went to back to back WS in the past decade or so.
As for the asinine comment regarding the Orioles, DallasAg....come on, man. The Orioles aren't the St. Louis Browns, any more than the Twins are the Washington Senators, or the Brewers are the Seattle Pilots.
As for the asinine comment regarding the Orioles, DallasAg....come on, man. The Orioles aren't the St. Louis Browns, any more than the Twins are the Washington Senators, or the Brewers are the Seattle Pilots.
Joey Gallo was a two time all star. He was a 1st rounder.
Lyles is always good for getting us back on track for a top 3 pick
And how is Culberson still on this team? Much less batting 2nd?
And how is Culberson still on this team? Much less batting 2nd?
There are semantics involved here, but Gallo was a compensation pick so not technically a 1st round pick, but before the 2nd round. So kind of a gray area.
While he's being obnoxious in his post, our draft success rate has been pretty abysmal, particularly when it comes to our 1st round picks.
While he's being obnoxious in his post, our draft success rate has been pretty abysmal, particularly when it comes to our 1st round picks.
Their drafting has been abysmal, but I'm hoping Young's presence will change things. A good sign was not getting cute at 2. Leiter should be a no brainer, but getting creative in the 1st at times has been part of the problem.
Problem #1 is drafting WAY too many HS pitchers in the 1st round. Just complete lottery ticket dumbassery in my book. The odds of it working out are abysmal and it's been that way for a good 15+ years. With very rare exception, a HS pitcher is so far away from you knowing what he'll ever be, and most the guys that look great at 18 blow their elbow out
Problem #1 is drafting WAY too many HS pitchers in the 1st round. Just complete lottery ticket dumbassery in my book. The odds of it working out are abysmal and it's been that way for a good 15+ years. With very rare exception, a HS pitcher is so far away from you knowing what he'll ever be, and most the guys that look great at 18 blow their elbow out
Agree 1 million percent, look at the leaderboard for ERA this year, out of the top 25 league wide, 15 came from college, 4 from high school and 6 internationally.
To me the math is pretty clear, much better chance of hitting on your draft picks if you focus on college pitchers.
Only a bone headed team would keep going back to the well so often on high school arms.
To me the math is pretty clear, much better chance of hitting on your draft picks if you focus on college pitchers.
Only a bone headed team would keep going back to the well so often on high school arms.
This got me going down a rabbit hole that led me to the 2020 rule 5 draft, and the Rangers could have taken Akil Baddoo who is a 22 year old in Detroit currently putting up a 2.0 WAR season. Tigers took him number 3 after the Rangers took De Geus from the Dodgers.
Just once I'd like for the Rangers to hit on some of these moments when a good player is there for the taking.
It's just hard to watch a team full of spares right now. Other than IKF and maybe Heim as a backup, there isn't another position player on the roster I'd want around in 2 years.
Just once I'd like for the Rangers to hit on some of these moments when a good player is there for the taking.
It's just hard to watch a team full of spares right now. Other than IKF and maybe Heim as a backup, there isn't another position player on the roster I'd want around in 2 years.
I guess if we cherry pick to the negative then he's done absolutely nothing right. Daniels has only picked in the Top 10 three times. Two of those have happened in the last three drafts and look really promising. I'm not saying they've been good in the 1st rd., but it's not as bad as some of you think. Picking outside the top 10-15 is essentially a lottery ticket. Picking within the top 15 is maybe 50/50. The hit rate on those picks is not like the NFL. We've talked about Gallo. Justin Smoak was an all star and played for a decade. Tommy Hunter had some good years. Blake Beavan, Julio Borbon, Neil Ramirez, Chi Chi Gonzalez, Tanner Scheppers, Luke Jackson, Mike Olt, Lewis Brinson, Luis Ortiz, Travis Demeritte, and Dillon Tate have all made it to the show. Again, I'm not saying they've been great. Just not that bad.
FYI. Chi Chi Gonzalez, Dillon Tate, and Luke Jackson are all pitching in the major leagues this year. Luke Jackson has a 2.31 ERA.
FYI. Chi Chi Gonzalez, Dillon Tate, and Luke Jackson are all pitching in the major leagues this year. Luke Jackson has a 2.31 ERA.
AggieEP said:
It's just hard to watch a team full of spares right now. Other than IKF and maybe Heim as a backup, there isn't another position player on the roster I'd want around in 2 years.
Adolis Garcia? Ibanez is also flashing potential, has really been playing well lately. At this rate I think he might be out starting 2B next season.
HS pitchers in round 1 are the lottery ticket with by far the longest odds, especially in the era of kids playing baseball year-round. You actually proved the point with your post. A number of HS pitchers listed and your top 3 success stories are middle relievers with other clubs, one of which with an ERA over 6 and another was actually a college pitcher.
The data on what a bad gamble HS pitchers are in the 1st is out there. One of the issues is that the 18 year olds showing the most arm talent (which is generally seen as velocity at that age) are often the first to physically break down in this era of year-round youth baseball.
There's a reason you're only seeing 3-4 HS pitchers going in round 1, then there is Texas where around half the guys they took in the first round over the past 15 years were HS pitchers. And they unsurprisingly have dick to show for it.
The data on what a bad gamble HS pitchers are in the 1st is out there. One of the issues is that the 18 year olds showing the most arm talent (which is generally seen as velocity at that age) are often the first to physically break down in this era of year-round youth baseball.
There's a reason you're only seeing 3-4 HS pitchers going in round 1, then there is Texas where around half the guys they took in the first round over the past 15 years were HS pitchers. And they unsurprisingly have dick to show for it.
hawk1689 said:
Joey Gallo was a two time all star. He was a 1st rounder.
Gallo sucked. .210 career avg.
I'm sorry, I need to stay off this thread. It's not as if I have a say in the franchise's performance, and I'm not accomplishing anything by getting into "who sucks worse" arguments with the last remaining Rangers fans in the state.
I agree with you on the overrepresentation of pitching. My point was that everybody misses most of the time in the draft.
AggieEP said:
This got me going down a rabbit hole that led me to the 2020 rule 5 draft, and the Rangers could have taken Akil Baddoo who is a 22 year old in Detroit currently putting up a 2.0 WAR season. Tigers took him number 3 after the Rangers took De Geus from the Dodgers.
So I don't recall anyone griping about the Rangers passing on a Rule 5 guy who had been gone for Tommy John surgery for two years who'd never played above A ball.
I know JD and company are paid to know a steal when it presents itself, but there's a reason most guys are available in the Rule 5 draft.
hawk1689 said:
I agree with you on the overrepresentation of pitching. My point was that everybody misses most of the time in the draft.
Sure there are a lot of misses by every team, but the Rangers have been missing on prospects for over a decade. They traded the whole farm away trying to extend the run and really we don't regret trading away those guys. Kyle Hendricks is about the only one that stings all these years later.
Gave up huge packages for Hamels and Lee and those prospects didn't do much. Rangers have also had some head scratcher kind of picks in drafts over the years.
Rangers might not be the worst in the league, but they have to be near the bottom. Even after getting top of the draft picks the last few years the Rangers farm system is still ranked in the bottom half.
Their run of success was kind of amazing given the backbone of it was essentially all trade driven. Yes, there is no greater draft crapshoot than the MLB draft, but like much of the game, you improve your chances of hitting on players by playing the percentages. I just look back at their approach and they did an extremely poor job of that.
28 years ago today, Nolan Ryan teaches Robin Ventura a lesson. #TodayInSports #MLBTwitter pic.twitter.com/HAKKJyEfN0
— TodayInSports (@TodayInSports3) August 4, 2021
Don't forget about guys like Chris Davis and Tanner Roark. Mitch Moreland went to an all star game. Keone Kela and Jared Eickhoff had some success outside of the organization. All draft picks under Daniels.
Nolan Ryan and the story behind the Robin Ventura fight.
— Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja) February 11, 2020
How Dave Winfield charging the mound made Ryan change his brawl tactics. 🥊
From: https://t.co/j0RwJY8R8m pic.twitter.com/pmKbMZPbLT
A little backstory on it for those that don't know.
If you're coming with takes like that, agreed. Pointing to batting average alone in today's game is shortsided to say the least. Take a break my dude.South Platte said:hawk1689 said:
Joey Gallo was a two time all star. He was a 1st rounder.
Gallo sucked. .210 career avg.
I'm sorry, I need to stay off this thread. It's not as if I have a say in the franchise's performance, and I'm not accomplishing anything by getting into "who sucks worse" arguments with the last remaining Rangers fans in the state.
hawk1689 said:
Don't forget about guys like Chris Davis and Tanner Roark. Mitch Moreland went to an all star game. Keone Kela and Jared Eickhoff had some success outside of the organization. All draft picks under Daniels.
So a guy who had a good 6 year run in Chris Davis, a solid contributor over a career in Moreland, a decent reliever for a couple years in Kela, and two pitchers who have been pretty terrible out side of a couple years.
If the hits for this organization include Roark and Eickhoff then that actually speaks to how bad this organization has drafted.
Right now our highest ranked prospect on the MLB top 100 is Jung at 46. That right there is an indication of how subpar our minor league rosters are.
That being said, I think that we have done a good job in recent drafts with our top picks. I think that Winn and Lieter could end up being a pretty damn good pitching tandem, and that is the best place to start building. We will also have a high pick this next draft as well, probably no lower than 3rd overall. The critical thing is going to be seeing how our returns for Gallo/Gibson end up. If those guys develop we'll be much closer to contending than we are right now. It's not outside the realm of possibility to see the blueprint for a young core coming together. Much easier said than done of course.
That being said, I think that we have done a good job in recent drafts with our top picks. I think that Winn and Lieter could end up being a pretty damn good pitching tandem, and that is the best place to start building. We will also have a high pick this next draft as well, probably no lower than 3rd overall. The critical thing is going to be seeing how our returns for Gallo/Gibson end up. If those guys develop we'll be much closer to contending than we are right now. It's not outside the realm of possibility to see the blueprint for a young core coming together. Much easier said than done of course.
Listened to a podcast yesterday regarding the Rangers' farm system, and I thought this was interesting. They pointed out that the consensus among league scouts & such is that post-trade deadline, the Rangers farm system is the deepest in all of baseball. Note that they didn't say 'best' - they said 'deepest'. The comment was made that other than Leiter, there weren't really any 9's or 10's in the system (if you ranked them on a 10-1 scale with 10 being a sure fire MLB star prospect), but that there were a lot of 6's & 7's, arguably 8's. The value of depth being that you can afford to trade away some prospects to get good players when the competitive window opens, probably in the '23 or '24 season.
Thought it was interesting as well that they said that diving into free agency during a rebuild was a fool's errand and that's not the way to do it. If you're going to rebuild, it takes a few years to play itself out. Trying to cut corners & accelerate the process typically fails.
Don't shoot the messenger, just relaying what was said (paraphrased of course).
Thought it was interesting as well that they said that diving into free agency during a rebuild was a fool's errand and that's not the way to do it. If you're going to rebuild, it takes a few years to play itself out. Trying to cut corners & accelerate the process typically fails.
Don't shoot the messenger, just relaying what was said (paraphrased of course).
Yep, there is no reason to jump into free agency when you are 2 to 3 years away from even approaching having a competitive team.
You're right we should also consider that our international signings were middling at best. That's a nice collection of JAGs you have there.
Don't see a player on there that you really build a team long term with. Sadly Odor is probably the best of that group.
Don't see a player on there that you really build a team long term with. Sadly Odor is probably the best of that group.
If you look at JD's first 10 drafts (anything afterwards is still too soon to know). He drafted four all stars, an ERA champion, and a guy who has put up nearly 20 WAR in his career. IKF can also be included in this group and he has all star potential. This is on top of a host of major league regulars. He did this all with one top 10 pick. I don't think some of you understand just how low the hit rates are for draft picks. It's not as bad as you think.
hawk1689 said:
If you look at JD's first 10 drafts (anything afterwards is still too soon to know). He drafted four all stars, an ERA champion, and a guy who has put up nearly 20 WAR in his career. IKF can also be included in this group and he has all star potential. This is on top of a host of major league regulars. He did this all with one top 10 pick. I don't think some of you understand just how low the hit rates are for draft picks. It's not as bad as you think.
LOL. We understand the low hit rate in the MLB draft relative to others; in fact, I specifically called that out already. But the reaults speak for themselves. They are one of the absolute worst teams in baseball, and it's not because FA picked off their good players they drafted/developed. And if you gathered up every prospect they traded away in the past 10-15 years and put them on this club, they'd still be one of the worst teams in baseball. The results speak for themselves. They spent a decade drafting more poorly than almost everyone else.
Big picture -> yes, drafting is hard. But almost every other MLB club has done a better job of it for 15 years
We're just simply awful. This franchise has never had 5 consecutive losing seasons, but we'll accomplish that this in a couple of months. There is no plan and no hope in sight to end the string of losing seasons for the next several years. For us to reach .500 in '22 - '26, we would have already had to make some really great baseball decisions that would play out nicely in the next few seasons. Have we?jtstanley4621 said:If you're coming with takes like that, agreed. Pointing to batting average alone in today's game is shortsided to say the least. Take a break my dude.South Platte said:hawk1689 said:
Joey Gallo was a two time all star. He was a 1st rounder.
Gallo sucked. .210 career avg.
I'm sorry, I need to stay off this thread. It's not as if I have a say in the franchise's performance, and I'm not accomplishing anything by getting into "who sucks worse" arguments with the last remaining Rangers fans in the state.
I find it completely unacceptable for ownership and management to assemble a pile of garbage and tell us "this is your team". It also doesn't help that the boys down I-45 have enjoyed crazy success over the past 5 years despite losing major contributors to injury and free agency every year.
Preach my brother, preach, preach, preach!!!!!!!DannyDuberstein said:hawk1689 said:
If you look at JD's first 10 drafts (anything afterwards is still too soon to know). He drafted four all stars, an ERA champion, and a guy who has put up nearly 20 WAR in his career. IKF can also be included in this group and he has all star potential. This is on top of a host of major league regulars. He did this all with one top 10 pick. I don't think some of you understand just how low the hit rates are for draft picks. It's not as bad as you think.
LOL. We understand the low hit rate in the MLB draft relative to others; in fact, I specifically called that out already. But the reaults speak for themselves. They are one of the absolute worst teams in baseball, and it's not because FA picked off their good players they drafted/developed. And if you gathered up every prospect they traded away in the past 10-15 years and put them on this club, they'd still be one of the worst teams in baseball. The results speak for themselves. They spent a decade drafting more poorly than almost everyone else.
Big picture -> yes, drafting is hard. But almost every other MLB club has done a better job of it for 15 years
I'm hopeful these past 3 drafts will start to turn their fortunes. I do think there is talent there, but time will tell
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