I don't think we are talking about the same guy.... Look to the left of Kylo in that pic. What looks like a bat to me has red rings around it. I could be wrong though. Doesn't really change my point about them looking like a gang though.
*** STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Spoiler Discussion/Reactions ***
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Last: 6 yr ago by Philip J Fry
quote:
I don't think we are talking about the same guy.... Look to the left of Kylo in that pic. What looks like a bat to me has red rings around it. I could be wrong though. Doesn't really change my point about them looking like a gang though.
quote:Thank you!
Guys, TC means the exact shots that were seen in the trailers. The ones you guys are bringing up are not the same shots. They are different camera angles and takes, albeit of the same scene in the film
To the left of Kylo... Not his left hand. I mean to the left of Kylo when you are looking at the picture.
Let me start off by saying I don't think Rey is a Kenobi.
That being said, Obi Wan wasn't the purest of Jedi and could have possibly "broken the code" when it comes to women.
In the Clone Wars (i.e. CANON), Obi- Wan admitted to Satine of Mandalore that he would have left the Jedi Order for her if she would have asked. Maybe they got busy and started an accidental lineage that led to Rey?
That being said, Obi Wan wasn't the purest of Jedi and could have possibly "broken the code" when it comes to women.
In the Clone Wars (i.e. CANON), Obi- Wan admitted to Satine of Mandalore that he would have left the Jedi Order for her if she would have asked. Maybe they got busy and started an accidental lineage that led to Rey?
I gotcha. I did see this earlier
That's what I was referencing earlier. If that ends up being the case, her being of mandalorian descent would be the first example that I can think of in canon where a mandalorian has the ability to use the Force.
quote:The guy in the back also looks to have a giant cricket bat.
To the left of Kylo... Not his left hand. I mean to the left of Kylo when you are looking at the picture.
It is interesting that the gang appears to be performing a slaughter near Niima outpost (if that guard hat is indeed the same one from the visual dictionary). I wonder if that's where Kylo first encountered Ren, and if the ship that was leaving was Kylo taking someone away.
We do have to consider the fact that Obi-Wan spent 20 years on Tatooine in solitude. The only other Jedi in the galaxy was in exile on the other side of the galaxy. (I think?)
There was not much stopping him from getting all the Mos Eisley ass he wanted at that point.
There was not much stopping him from getting all the Mos Eisley ass he wanted at that point.
I did wonder about Han's quote regarding Maz. I was expecting her to be really abrasive or...something. Instead she was more Yoda-like.
All I know is that I'm looking forward to Rey having a line at some point in the trilogy if she is Luke's daughter where she says, "I am a Jedi, like my father and grandfather before me." Bonus points if she says it to Kylo when they are battling just to piss him off.
quote:Well, she did kind of climb over a table to take a look at Finn. I'd say that was kind of odd.... or something.
I did wonder about Han's quote regarding Maz. I was expecting her to be really abrasive or...something. Instead she was more Yoda-like.
quote:I just now have been able to catch up to this thread and this may have been covered in the seemingly thousands of posts since your post early this morning, but I nearly thought the same thing as the movie unfolded but didn't and here's why:
THE CONTRIVANCES AWAKEN
If I had to point to one, glaring, overarching issue that kept me from truly enjoying the experience, it would be the series of massive, ridiculously convenient coincidences Abrams masquerades as "plot." The first 20 or so minutes had me hooked. The opening village raid (Kylo stopping that laser was one of the coolest moments of the movie), all the way through Rey and Finn meeting at the depot in Jakku, was just pitch-perfect blockbuster filmmaking. That was a nearly flawless first act. For me, though, the first signs of unraveling were when Rey and Finn just so happened upon the Millennium Falcon. Ten minutes earlier (in the film), Finn had just been told by Poe that he needed to get back to his droid on Jakku, a droid who had a map to the whereabouts of the mythical Luke Skywalker. And then soon after, on that same planet, Finn and Rey just so happen upon the very ship that began Luke Skywalker's journey all those years ago.
Still, I can buy that series of events. In terms of whimsical action-adventure epics, I can absolutely let that kind of stuff slide. It's when, only hours later for the characters, and literally minutes later in the movie, Han Solo - the former owner of that ship - just so happens to be the first person Rey and Finn happen to come in contact with. We're talking about amassive galaxy, and Han and Chewie just happen to be casually looking for the Falcon in that exact location. After a Force-sensitive girl and kid who worked for Han's son just happened to randomly steal the Falcon. After a pilot sent by Han's ex just happened to mention to that same kid the name Luke Skywalker, who Han just happened to know better than just about anyone else alive.
Again, give me one or two of those coincidences, and I'm fine. But when an entire 40-50 minute sequence is built like Jenga blocks purely on improbable coincidence after coincidence after coincidence, and the story rendered non-existent if even one of those things doesn't magically happen, it's incredibly hard for me to go along on that particular ride. I get that it's essentially a fairy tale, and that fairy tales are rooted in fantasy. But fantasy, in turn, doesn't have to be rooted in coincidence and contrivances. They can be independent of each other. And please don't say it was because "the Force" was willing it all to happen. Once we began to have an inclination from the trailers and commercials that TFA would be echoing quite a few elements from A New Hope (orphan on a desert planet, Vader-esque villain, Star Destroyer 3.0, etc.), I theorized in the other thread how cool it would be if, for whatever reason, the Force was essentially... forcing... the events of A New Hope to echo across time, with whatever characters it could call to action, in order to save Luke Skywalker in some way. And while that may very well still be the case, it wasn't alluded to in any way, shape, or form in the final product. In fact, nothing was. Instead, every last contrivance literally had to be explained away after the fact by expository dialogue...
- Just after Han finds the Falcon, he has to ask Rey who now owned it, and then quickly has to explain (to the audience, basically) how it got to be on Jakku.
- As Han is about to fend off the bounty hunters from his freighter, he then has to explain that he and Chewie had been casually looking for the Falcon for years.
- Finally, hours later (for them), when Rey randomly-and-out-of-no-where finds Luke's long lost lightsaber in a random treasure chest in the basement of a random castle, Abrams doesn't even have a reason why, and actually had a character basically say, "We'll explain it in the next movie!" That one was the icing on the cake for me, and maybe the most egregious. I still cannot believe that is how Luke's lightsaber was inserted into the plot of this movie. After all the speculation, that element is such a let down.
Point is, all of this info should be made obvious through ACTION and PLOT, not explained after the fact in dialogue. As is, it's just so insanely lazy. With a little more reverence and effort, there was a better way to string these scenes together. I loved what they were going for. I was so on board with the very basic flow of that series of events. But why not connect the dots just a bit better, especially when it would have done wonders for the overall narrative?
In the Star Wars universe I've come to believe there is no such thing as a coincidence. There was an awakening of The Force at the beginning of the movie and it affected all of the subsequent events in the movie. It awakened within Finn, causing him to overcome the First Order brainwashing and wanting escape, freeing Poe Dameron in the process. It awakened within Rey, causing her not to sell BB8 when she had the chance and to almost unknowingly develop her force powers throughout the beginning of the movie. It directed Finn and BB8 to Rey, to the Millennium Falcon and to Han and Chewie. It put everyone in each other's path.
So events that would normally bother me as a coincidence too contrived to be believed I think is acceptable if you believe in the Force as it pertains to the Star Wars universe.
Ha. She was definitely weird. I guess I just interpreted Han's ominous warnings about her and the bar to mean she was a rough character.
I'm sure it will come. Maz damn near spit it out herself.
Sidebar - the club that we thought you were talking about, the thing Kylo is holding in his left hand - think that's Luke's lightsaber?
Sidebar - the club that we thought you were talking about, the thing Kylo is holding in his left hand - think that's Luke's lightsaber?
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."
-Obi Wan Kenobi
-Obi Wan Kenobi
quote:
All I know is that I'm looking forward to Rey having a line at some point in the trilogy if she is Luke's daughter where she says, "I am a Jedi, like my father and grandfather before me."
Regarding Maz having the lightsaber, she obviously has a history with Han and Chewie, lots of power and connections in the world of smugglers, crime, and espionage, and some connection to the Force. I find it very unsurprising that a person like that would end up with Luke's lightsaber.
Someone posted the visual dictionary a couple pages ago, and there was a page on Maz. It was clear that she has a strong relationship with the force (not sensitivity, more personal intrigue), and is clearly a collector of force artifacts.
I do think Rey being drawn to the lightsaber wasn't the best route there, and that Maz recognizing who she was and giving it to her would have been stronger. If you look at that still from the trailer, it does indeed appear that Maz is handing the lightsaber to Rey. Why they changed that - dunno.
I do think Rey being drawn to the lightsaber wasn't the best route there, and that Maz recognizing who she was and giving it to her would have been stronger. If you look at that still from the trailer, it does indeed appear that Maz is handing the lightsaber to Rey. Why they changed that - dunno.
quote:Possible, but I find it unlikely. I think Kylo was looking for things specifically connected to Vader/Anakin. That's why I think he wanted the saber from Rey that was used to cut down Jedi and Younglings alike, and that's why I think he had Vader's helmet. He wants to feel connected to Vader who he truly believes was his grandfather. I don't think that Kylo believes that Vader turned away from the dark side or that there was a true conflict within him in regards to what was true.
I'm sure it will come. Maz damn near spit it out herself.
Sidebar - the club that we thought you were talking about, the thing Kylo is holding in his left hand - think that's Luke's lightsaber?
I think that Kylo sees Vader's turn to the dark side as his solution to what the Jedi Order did in trying to manipulate the Senate and that the Order the Empire brought through force was a the answer to stabilize the galaxy in ROTS. In fact, his actions mirror Anakin's based on what we have been told.
I don't think Luke's saber would give him that psychological connection that he is seeking. I also don't think that Luke would leave behind his lightsaber either.
If Maz gives Rey the lightsaber sooner, you don't have the same ending where she force grabs the saber. In fact, you would be advancing her showdown with Kylo to the castle, but I don't know if she would have been confident enough at that point to take on Kylo... ultimately, she may have still been taken & the saber taken by the FO.
My wife and I discussed the power differential, she's a Star Wars newbie, but she theorized that a saber is similar to a wand in HP. It's not that Rey was stronger than Kylo, but the saber (The Force ultimately) picked her in that moment. Because that idea seemed interesting and thought the saber being tied to destiny seemed plausible, I tried to think of times when an individual had his or her own saber used against them. One of the few moments in a movie where I feel like the saber is used against the owner is Anakin killing Dooku. Were there any others? Grievous perhaps took Kenobi's saber (?), but it was not used to kill him clearly.
My wife and I discussed the power differential, she's a Star Wars newbie, but she theorized that a saber is similar to a wand in HP. It's not that Rey was stronger than Kylo, but the saber (The Force ultimately) picked her in that moment. Because that idea seemed interesting and thought the saber being tied to destiny seemed plausible, I tried to think of times when an individual had his or her own saber used against them. One of the few moments in a movie where I feel like the saber is used against the owner is Anakin killing Dooku. Were there any others? Grievous perhaps took Kenobi's saber (?), but it was not used to kill him clearly.
Also, where is Vader's lightsaber?
quote:
I doubt they would treat it as a plot twist, they'd probably treat it like they did Kylo Ren's lineage. It's an interesting reveal but not something that is meant to be a big, shocking, climactic moment like say "I am your father".
They'd probably have to have him or Luke lay out what happened with him and Palps, since just revealing him as Plagueis wouldn't mean that much to casual viewers.
The real shocker would be if he reveals he really did create Vader.
What if he brings Vader back? That would be a huge plot twist.
Whacha mean where is it?
quote:I'm going to guess that it went to the bottom of the shaft on the Death Star II when Luke severed Vader's hand.
Also, where is Vader's lightsaber?
It's probably also been mentioned a ton of times in this thread but I'll ask:
Who else missed the 20th Century Fox Fanfare just prior to the beginning of TFA?
Who else missed the 20th Century Fox Fanfare just prior to the beginning of TFA?
Hey - it's out there somewhere.
quote:Yup, had that thought right before it started.
It's probably also been mentioned a ton of times in this thread but I'll ask:
Who else missed the 20th Century Fox Fanfare just prior to the beginning of TFA?
Then the trumpets and the scroll hit and I forgot all about it
quote:
Hey - it's out there somewhere.
Flung somewhere to the furthest reaches of the GFFA maybe. Maybe those rumors of a lightsaber floating in space will pan out and it will be Vader's saber.
quote:To me, they go to a point to mention all the stories and myths they had heard about the Jedi earlier in the movies. It's not a stretch to imagine her having heard about the Jedi mind trick, and try it herself, imo. It didn't work the first two times she tried it, either.
True, but even Luke had a pretty big learning curve. I get exactly where you're coming from, though. Most of it I had no problem with it. The big one for me, though, for whatever reason, was when Rey just automatically knew to pull the Jedi mind trick on that stormtrooper. As I mentioned, Luke at least had the advantage of seeing Obi-Wan do it first. He knew because of that that it could be done. Here, Rey just... knew. And yes, I guess you could argue that the Force has come back bigger/faster/stronger this go around, but again, I needed Abrams to give me more of a hint that that is, in fact, the case. Just a hint. Rather than the radio silence / we'll-cover-that-in-the-next-installment we continued to get over and over in that regard during TFA.
quote:quote:I'm going to guess that it went to the bottom of the shaft on the Death Star II when Luke severed Vader's hand.
Also, where is Vader's lightsaber?
Death Star? Newb it's cloud city
quote:Vader:
Death Star? Newb it's cloud city
Anakin/Vader and Luke's which is the one Rey had:
quote:quote:quote:I'm going to guess that it went to the bottom of the shaft on the Death Star II when Luke severed Vader's hand.
Also, where is Vader's lightsaber?
Death Star? Newb it's cloud city
Be prepared to get anally torn apart by the star wars nerd police....they don't like semantics!
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