quote:I am betting we get a flash back scene in Episode VIII that shows the last interactions of Han, Leia, Chewie and Luke before SHTF.
I haven't looked at any of this thread but does everyone think that's the last we see of Han Solo or do we get glimpses of him again like Obi Wan
*** STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Spoiler Discussion/Reactions ***
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Last: 6 yr ago by Philip J Fry
quote:This was definitely intentional. That along with her staff tells me she's going to go with something like a pike or a spear for her light saber. And I still think she's already had some training in that area.quote:
She spent most of the fight trying to stab at Ren like poking a dead body with a stick.
I agree that Ford wants to be done with it all but he was absolutely worth the 10-20 million he made for TFA
Love Carrie.
quote:quote:Kylo Ren's character is a whiny, conflicted brat who uses his light saber to smash thing in temper tantrums. Darth Vader was just a generic bad guy in black who didn't even need to move or ever take off the mask for any kind of expression of character. The idea that they should be similar? Meh. Vader in the initial movie is closer to being Darth Maul than he is to being Kylo Ren. It's surprising Lucas didn't kill him off immediately knowing how it goes in most Lucas films. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that that was the case, except they edited it out when they had to go in and save that movie in editing.quote:
Also, Vader was a badass looking, menacing villain, but he was not fleshed out in the first movie. That came later.
You cannot fairly compare Kylo's one movie appearance to Vader's six.
Kylo is a much better, deeper character than Vader was one movie in.
Is this not common sense?
Kylo Ren was easily my favorite character in the movie, but Darth Vader is one of the greatest cinematic villains ever - in just A New Hope. Every scene he's in in ANH is menacing and suspenseful. He keeps killing his own guys for their failures. He chokes people from across the room. His very breath is menacing and foreboding.
Kylo Ren can't beat a 100-lb girl in a light saber battle when she's literally never even held a light saber before.
Is it not common sense who the better villain is?
Also, Darth Vader wasn't in six movies, only three, and I didn't even like the third one. Annie Skywalker is no Darth Vader.
Of course, he's a whiny conflicted brat.... He's a Skywalker. I really hope Rey isn't one for that reason.
That said, I think Kylo Ren is an incomplete villain at this point, closer to where Vader was at the end of Ep. 3 than the beginning of 4.
My favorite non-metal bikini thing about Carrie Fisher is that she named her dog Gary Fisher.
I think they will stay away from the double-sided just because we've already seen it.
This would be my guess.
This would be my guess.
Company taking my department to Studio Movie Grill. Viewing #3.
quote:ummm.....more like $34 million (or more possibly)....and still worth it.
I agree that Ford wants to be done with it all but he was absolutely worth the 10-20 million he made for TFA
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/dec/21/harrison-ford-star-wars-the-force-awakens-34m-payday
already he made $25 million + 0.5% of $1.1B or over $30 million + $1.5 million paid for his broken leg injury on set.....
that will be dwarfed by what JJ Abrams makes however...he took just $5 million plus 2% of the gross...if it breaks 2.7 billion worldwide he could make more than $60 million.
quote:
Stronger and/or cooler villain is not what I was talking about. I said deeper character.
Stronger, cooler, more original, scarier, better. Vader is all those. Star Wars was incredible for its time, thanks in large part to Vader.
Don't be dense.
Vader is one of the most popular and iconic villains of all time, nobody is saying otherwise.
But watch ANH and then watch TFA and you tell me which villain was more fleshed out as a character.
In the climax of ANH, Vader is flying a TIE fighter and trying to shoot down Luke before he blows up the Death Star. One of the greatest, most exciting climaxes in film history, no doubt, but Vader's role was basically that of a good enemy pilot after killing Obi-Wan.
Kylo played a far more important role in the final act of his movie.
Vader is one of the most popular and iconic villains of all time, nobody is saying otherwise.
But watch ANH and then watch TFA and you tell me which villain was more fleshed out as a character.
In the climax of ANH, Vader is flying a TIE fighter and trying to shoot down Luke before he blows up the Death Star. One of the greatest, most exciting climaxes in film history, no doubt, but Vader's role was basically that of a good enemy pilot after killing Obi-Wan.
Kylo played a far more important role in the final act of his movie.
quote:quote:
Stronger and/or cooler villain is not what I was talking about. I said deeper character.
Stronger, cooler, more original, scarier, better. Vader is all those. Star Wars was incredible for its time, thanks in large part to Vader.
but Vader was pretty one dimensional....he was straight evil and methodical....only later was it revealed he had some weakness (Luke and redemption).
by "deeper" i think what he means is there is more character development with Kylo...he is unstable, unpredictable, has issues, he is a wild card, etc....in some ways thats more fun. i get his point. i said the same thing when i left the first showing....
i loved Vader for what he was...but if you just made another Vader it would be repetitive too (there was enough of that in this movie)...its actually kinda fun and funny that he wants to be liike Vader but he is really Vader-lite and people make fun of him for it basically...now maybe he transforms into something even more scary because he is unredeemable (imho) and so evil and unpredictable that if he does get trained look out.
Vader didn't become a great character until Empire.
Again, I personally feel a lot of you are reading into things too much. Most people, with no sword training, will just poke or swing wildly. Both her and Finn did this. If you think back to what happened after she appeared to tap into the force, she used the lightsaber just fine.
quote:
Vader didn't become a great character until Empire.
Man, the fencing critics would really have a field day with the original battle between Vader and Obi-Wan if New Hope came out today.
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IIRC people asked why the styles differed strongly between the OT and the PT when the PT came out.
http://theweek.com/articles/595722/star-wars-should-give-power-dark-side
Interesting article.
This part jumped out at me:
That could be cool.
Interesting article.
This part jumped out at me:
quote:
What Star Wars really needs is a Tyrion Lannister a sympathetic, politically savvy power player who recognizes that the differences between the Resistance and the First Order aren't quite as simple as good vs. evil. Or a calculating Thomas Cromwell, who recognizes an opportunity to better both his own position and the galaxy in general in the restructuring of the galactic power structure. Or a politically neutral figure who would welcome any end to the decades of war that have claimed so many lives. Or, if you'd rather stick to lightsabers: Why not a Yojimbo-esque former Jedi who rejects fully committing to either the Light Side or the Dark Side, trusting his own internal moral compass to guide him in his wanderings around the galaxy?
That could be cool.
quote:
IIRC people asked why the styles differed strongly between the OT and the PT when the PT came out.
Retconned answer: Jedis in their prime, etc.
Actual answer: a classically-trained, elderly British actor fighting with a pretend laser sword in 1977
quote:I'm aware of that, but what I'm saying is that it isn't necessarily a new critique.quote:
IIRC people asked why the styles differed strongly between the OT and the PT when the PT came out.
Retconned answer: Jedis in their prime, etc.
Actual answer: a classically-trained, elderly British actor fighting with a pretend laser sword in 1977
quote:Asoka Tano is primed for this sort of development.
http://theweek.com/articles/595722/star-wars-should-give-power-dark-side
Interesting article.
This part jumped out at me:
quote:
What Star Wars really needs is a Tyrion Lannister a sympathetic, politically savvy power player who recognizes that the differences between the Resistance and the First Order aren't quite as simple as good vs. evil. Or a calculating Thomas Cromwell, who recognizes an opportunity to better both his own position and the galaxy in general in the restructuring of the galactic power structure. Or a politically neutral figure who would welcome any end to the decades of war that have claimed so many lives. Or, if you'd rather stick to lightsabers: Why not a Yojimbo-esque former Jedi who rejects fully committing to either the Light Side or the Dark Side, trusting his own internal moral compass to guide him in his wanderings around the galaxy?
That could be cool.
Yep, the way they've been talking about Ahsoka and her white lightsabers signifying her not being aligned with either Jedi or Sith seems like the perfect avenue for this. I tend to doubt that will happen in the films for a force user though.
quote:
Here's a bad movie
I have never seen that before....wtf...lol
quote:Inconsistent Force use is my only real Star Wars pet peeve.quote:Yes, otherwise why would they even bother with lightsabers. Every fight between force users would just be two people standing apart trying to snap each other's neck with the force.quote:
I would buy the distraction angle, but it's similar to what I brought up before. When Rey ignites the lightsaber, why wouldn't he just freeze her in place like he did on Maz's planet?
Maybe he thought she could break out of it like she did his mind invasion?
It's tough to use such powers on someone whose ally is the Force. Rey was susceptible before because she was either ignorant of it or denying it. Once she grabs the lightsaber, she is starting to accept it.
Does it make me a snob that i"ve got a ton of theories, but I don't want to post them until the general thread is spoiler-inclusive in a couple of days?
quote:quote:Inconsistent Force use is my only real Star Wars pet peeve.quote:Yes, otherwise why would they even bother with lightsabers. Every fight between force users would just be two people standing apart trying to snap each other's neck with the force.quote:
I would buy the distraction angle, but it's similar to what I brought up before. When Rey ignites the lightsaber, why wouldn't he just freeze her in place like he did on Maz's planet?
Maybe he thought she could break out of it like she did his mind invasion?
It's tough to use such powers on someone whose ally is the Force. Rey was susceptible before because she was either ignorant of it or denying it. Once she grabs the lightsaber, she is starting to accept it.
My problem is not with them having to go to lightsabers vs another force user, rather with the lack of attempting to use the force prior to the lightsaber. Like Dooku vs Yoda in ep2. Kylo should (theoretically) never have to use his saber since he can force freeze people in place. At least make us believe he can no longer freeze Rey.
I like to think of it as the Jedi know they SHOULD use the Force, but it's a lot tougher than getting out the laser sword and swinging away. It requires a lot more concentration, regardless of what side of the line you're on.
For Kylo Ren there are so many factors in that final fight that go against him doing well.
1) He's been shot by a bowcaster
2) He just killed his own father
3) His plan to destroy the Resistance is failing MISERABLY, and he probably has a healthy dose of fear about the recriminations of that from SLS.
4) He probably somewhere in his mind is thinking - I've got to get the eff off this planet somehow
5) He's encountered someone else who can use the Force, and that is a real pisser for a guy who has been waltzing around the galaxy using it to intimidate and terrorize people. He probably hasn't used the Force against someone who could also use it since the betrayal at the Academy - that might have been 10-15 years prior. Even using it to train along with SLS would have been in a controlled environment.
For Kylo Ren there are so many factors in that final fight that go against him doing well.
1) He's been shot by a bowcaster
2) He just killed his own father
3) His plan to destroy the Resistance is failing MISERABLY, and he probably has a healthy dose of fear about the recriminations of that from SLS.
4) He probably somewhere in his mind is thinking - I've got to get the eff off this planet somehow
5) He's encountered someone else who can use the Force, and that is a real pisser for a guy who has been waltzing around the galaxy using it to intimidate and terrorize people. He probably hasn't used the Force against someone who could also use it since the betrayal at the Academy - that might have been 10-15 years prior. Even using it to train along with SLS would have been in a controlled environment.
Nah, makes sense. They'll be read by more people.
quote:I thought the Timothy Zahn books were pretty good. But those only happened 5 -10 years after RotJ. It's also been about 20 years since I've read them...
Problem I have heard is that so many of the new novels are trash, especially aftermath. Also tried watching Rebels and just couldn't get into it. Same with Clone Wars sadly. And I am not going to go out and buy comics.
LOL... there's the flame boner.
quote:Hell, we didn't even see Palpatine until ESB, and not even in person until RotJ.
Vader didn't become a great character until Empire.
Here's some things that should have pissed you off about "A New Hope," if you're really upset about TFA:
- In a new hope, we were never introduced to how the Empire/Emporer got it's power. All we're told is that the galaxy is in a state of civil war. We also know nothing about Storm Troopers or who the hell they are. (Insert being mad about who the First Order is)
- We don't have a clue how or why Kenobi can speak to Luke after death, but he can, and it's literally the only thing that guides Luke's ability to use the force, which he uses to aim and guide a set of proton torpedoes down a 2m shaft - something that all of the seasoned pilots believed to be impossible. (Insert - Rey's feelings leading her to the lightsaber, Rey using the force without much training)
- Leia is being chased by the empire because they apparently know that the Death Star plans were transported to her ship and they don't want her to get the plans back to the rebels. THE PLANS WERE TRANSMITTED TO HER, YET THE EMPIRE ENDS UP CHASING AROUND A HARD COPY. I mean holy crap, if they were transmitted to her then there's no way that the copy on R2 is the only copy of the plans in rebel hands. Are you telling me that they couldn't send it to multiple people to hand deliver to the rebel base, or transmit it to 50 different moons/planets to obscure the location of the rebel base? I mean hell, were they worried the empire would intercept a copy of the plans that it already has? (By comparison, TFA's use of the "plans in the droid" plot actually makes sense, as the empire is chasing after something THEY NEVER HAD)
- The Storm Troopers on Tatooine figure out there were droids in the pod because of a tiny metal ring on the ground. A tiny piece of metal, sitting in the middle of the desert, close to where a big ass space pod just crashed into the surface.... (And you think Han/Chewy being right there to greet Rey/Finn was a stretch?)
- Also, why did the Storm Troopers kill Luke's Aunt/Uncle? Why were none of them waiting for Luke to get home? "Well, guess we've gotta call of this search, boys. We were this close to finding those damned droids, but let's pack it in and setup checkpoints around a big ass spaceport filled with criminals/thugs/liars/vagabonds. We'll get these guys soon!"
- Vader can read thoughts, yet some torture/drug robot is required for Leia to give up any information about the rebel base - presumably because she is a force user. Of course he reads Luke's thoughts in later movies, but since we're sticking to ANH, I'll just point this out for it's clear analog to Kylo Ren having trouble with Rey.
- Ending: It's mentioned early in the movie that holding Leia prisoner was a bad move, as it would create sympathy for the rebellion. Meanwhile, the Empire uses it's ultimate weapon to commit genocide in an effort to send a message to deter the rest of the galaxy from joining the rebellion. One walks out of the movie thinking "damn, the Empire is screwed," and rightfully so. They presumably enraged an entire galaxy, lost their deterrent, and lost God only knows how many resources when the Death Star blew. Yet they return as strong and influential as ever in ESB, and find a way to start construction on a 2nd Death Star before RotJ. (So, yeah. Within the context of the Star Wars Universe, I can buy that the First Order could gain strength in the outer rim with little interference from the New Republic)
quote:
LOL... there's the flame boner.
It gets kinda creepy after you watch it a bunch of times.
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