*** STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Spoiler Discussion/Reactions ***

358,034 Views | 2952 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Philip J Fry
Brian Earl Spilner
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Good, but nowhere near the level of Empire Strikes Back.

Revenge of the Sith is a better overall movie despite what the prequel gaters will have you believe.
jabberwalkie09
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I was also wondering when Harry Potter and star wars mixed when the whole lightsaber chooses her over Ren....

Does anyone have background on lightsabers being attuned to certain people or choosing people?

Or did she really just over power Ren for it which seems unlikely?
Oh my.... No... Light sabers are inanimate... She overpowered him, or he didn't even really grasp it...

Like I said I think his abilities are probably focused on psychological and energy manipulation and not telekinesis. I think the Star Wars team at Disney is going with the Force Abilities specialization so like they did with Corran Horn in the Old EU... Some are stronger with Telekenesis, some telepathic, some light saber duellists, some energy manipulates, etc. some may have dual abilities. Some may be overall badass like Luke and apparently Rey...
I'd also add that in ESB Luke wasn't completely in the right frame of mind to pull out the X-Wing from the swamp.

Based the trilogies we have at present, we see that Qui-Gon wasn't necessarily the best duelist in TPM as he fended off Maul initially but died in his second encounter, but he was pretty good with being able to mind trick people IIRC. Yoda was a pretty good duelist and good with manipulating objects with the Force (AOTC, ROTS, and ESB).

If there is anyone besides Luke who could rival Anakin/Vader as a duelist, it would be Kenobi based on the PT. No doubt about it in my mind. Anakin was only defeated because he let his anger get the best of him on Mustafar.
joemeister
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RoTJ gets a bad rep for two reasons. 1 - teddy bears, 2 - Death Star part deux. Do those two things take away from the movie? Probably a bit, but IMO they don't tarnish what makes that movie great: the final space battle and the Luke/Vader/Palps stand off.
The Collective
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Revenge of the Sith is a better overall movie despite what the prequel gaters will have you believe.


Better than Return of the Jedi? lol...
Bruce Almighty
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Return of the jedi felt great because it ended on a positive note and was quirky, but this might have been better than it imo, and below anh, and esb.


Loved RoTJ. Somewhere along the way some cinema snobs convinced a bunch of people it wasn't a good film.


Ive never heard anyone say it wasn't a good movie. Plenty of people say it isn't a great movie and it doesn't take influence from a cinema snob to see why.
wangus12
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Rey feels a lot more natural than Katniss to me. Very well done by all involved.
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Rey is a much better character than the leads in Hunger Games and Divergent.
Probably because the actress is also better. Ridley is a much better actress than Jennifer Lawrence or Shailene Woodley, both of whom exhibit one single emotion/tone in every movie they do.
fig96
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Rey feels a lot more natural than Katniss to me. Very well done by all involved.
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Rey is a much better character than the leads in Hunger Games and Divergent.
Probably because the actress is also better. Ridley is a much better actress than Jennifer Lawrence or Shailene Woodley, both of whom exhibit one single emotion/tone in every movie they do.
It was nice to see a female action heroine who didn't seem constantly annoyed by everyone else around her.
The Collective
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Also, ROTJ was more negatively impacted by the special editions than the other 2 films, imo. I will agree that the end track is better in the special edition, but it's criminal what they did to the first 30 minutes of the movie.
evan_aggie
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I loved all of the originals (4-6), and I especially liked RotJ as a kid. When I watch it now...if I try to take a step back and compare to TFA, I might give TFA a slight edge.
Saul Goodman
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I really like RoTJ, not a bad film by any stretch of the imagination. But you can see glimpses of where Lucas was eventually going with the prequels (Ewoks, lame feel-good ending celebration). However, I love the first 20 minutes of the film, and the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes. I'm also not bothered by the Death Star Part 2.

Having said that, I think I'd place TFA just a notch above RoTJ:

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. ROTJ
5. ROTS
6. AOTC
7. PM
Fat Bib Fortuna
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my19 year old nephew. He basically said, I don't want to see any more girl power movies.

Let me guess, he has all of the Transformer movies on Blu-Ray.
80s Guy
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It was nice to see a female action heroine who didn't seem constantly annoyed by everyone else around her.
Indeed, not seeing the constant Resting ***** Face was refreshing!
AggieSouth06
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Also, ROTJ was more negatively impacted by the special editions than the other 2 films, imo. I will agree that the end track is better in the special edition, but it's criminal what they did to the first 30 minutes of the movie.

I wish there was a "fan vote" version of the special editions. Everybody basically wants the unedited originals, but I don't hate all the changes.

Get rid of the slapstick Mos Eisley stuff, Greedo shooting first, awkward Jabba, ethnic Boba Fett voice, Jabba's palace band (by far the worst addition), and Hayden F***ing Christensen... Did I miss any?
jabberwalkie09
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Revenge of the Sith is a better overall movie despite what the prequel gaters will have you believe.


Better than Return of the Jedi? lol...
The positives of the film was getting the Anakin Skywalker we had all been waiting the entire trilogy for, probably the second best lightsaber duel in the franchise between Kenobi and Anakin, and a film that was more about the Jedi, Anakin, Kenobi, and Padme than it was about galactic politics like the two previous PT films. It was also very entertaining, something that much of the PT lacked IMO.

Now are Anakin's whining, at times crappy dialogue, Vader's reaction to hearing that Padme died at his hands, and poor romantic scenes made up for? I don't think so. That's why IMO ROTJ is a superior film, despite the decision to make Leia Luke's sister in the film and the Ewok super army.
JJxvi
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I stand corrected...

So was Grizz Fix in the original version or was he digitally remastered?

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In the OT why did Leia ship get stopped right by the exact planet where the guy she needed to get the message to was, where a kid of the evil Vader was in hiding, who happened to be her brother, where the droids found that kid and they found that old man while encountering almost no one else on that entire planet....

Leia was on her way to see Obi-wan, that's why she got stopped there, and sent the droids to the planet to look for him.

The droids didn't find Obi-wan, Obi-wan was watching over Luke, and showed up when the Tusken Raiders attacked.

Luke was on the same planet because Obi-wan followed him there.

They didn't run into anyone else because Luke lived on a condenser farm and they got attacked along the road to town.

Now, Luke's uncle buying R2 and 3PO was a coincidence.


Still awfully convenient....I mean why was she going to find Obi Wan in the first place (her fathers orders sure, but)....


  • How did she even know he would still be there or still be alive, he could have been dead
  • Obi Wan was one Jedi with no apprentices, no army of any kind, he couldn't even defeat Vader himself
  • He didn't even really end up doing anything significant except turning off the power to let them escape and then sacrificing himself. he didn't fight anyone else except one guy in a bar skirmish.
  • He didn't have a ship for transport or even the money to hire one.

Leia risked everything to get to this one guy???? He was their only hope??? And it was to get him to Alderaan for some reason...well that never materialized.

Great movie and I love it but....simple plot driven contrivances...or the FORCE acting to put people together....pretty much the same thing.



I never got the impression she was there to find Obi Wan at all. She was carrying the death star plans to the rebels when she was waylaid by the Empire near Tatooine and out of desperation sent her droid down to the planet to the only person available who she might be able to trust that she knew of.
fig96
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quote:
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Also, ROTJ was more negatively impacted by the special editions than the other 2 films, imo. I will agree that the end track is better in the special edition, but it's criminal what they did to the first 30 minutes of the movie.

I wish there was a "fan vote" version of the special editions. Everybody basically wants the unedited originals, but I don't hate all the changes.

Get rid of the slapstick Mos Eisley stuff, Greedo shooting first, awkward Jabba, ethnic Boba Fett voice, Jabba's palace band (by far the worst addition), and Hayden F***ing Christensen... Did I miss any?
The subtle stuff that was added, primarily background shots and some digital cleanup, was just fine and actually enhanced the films a bit.

Notice that we didn't have any animated alien set pieces in TFA? Whether you liked things like the Jabba's palace band or not (and I imagine I know where most of us stand), they just didn't add anything that was relevant to the story.
Farmer1906
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I stand corrected...

So was Grizz Fix in the original version or was he digitally remastered?

quote:
In the OT why did Leia ship get stopped right by the exact planet where the guy she needed to get the message to was, where a kid of the evil Vader was in hiding, who happened to be her brother, where the droids found that kid and they found that old man while encountering almost no one else on that entire planet....

Leia was on her way to see Obi-wan, that's why she got stopped there, and sent the droids to the planet to look for him.

The droids didn't find Obi-wan, Obi-wan was watching over Luke, and showed up when the Tusken Raiders attacked.

Luke was on the same planet because Obi-wan followed him there.

They didn't run into anyone else because Luke lived on a condenser farm and they got attacked along the road to town.

Now, Luke's uncle buying R2 and 3PO was a coincidence.


Still awfully convenient....I mean why was she going to find Obi Wan in the first place (her fathers orders sure, but)....


  • How did she even know he would still be there or still be alive, he could have been dead
  • Obi Wan was one Jedi with no apprentices, no army of any kind, he couldn't even defeat Vader himself
  • He didn't even really end up doing anything significant except turning off the power to let them escape and then sacrificing himself. he didn't fight anyone else except one guy in a bar skirmish.
  • He didn't have a ship for transport or even the money to hire one.

Leia risked everything to get to this one guy???? He was their only hope??? And it was to get him to Alderaan for some reason...well that never materialized.

Great movie and I love it but....simple plot driven contrivances...or the FORCE acting to put people together....pretty much the same thing.





AR_Ag95
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Agree 100%......well said.
corleoneAg99
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Finally saw it yesterday and then immediately listened to a few trusty podcasts and agree with the general sentiment that the movie represents a pretty awesome level of execution on JJ Abrams part considering the gravity of what it's release meant.

JJ had to accomplish two main things with this movie, IMO, and those are that it had to recapture the credibility of the franchise that was somewhat lost based on the reception of the prequels AND it had to set up the game board in such a way that the Star Wars audience was excited and eager to see what happens next with both new and familiar characters.

Bravo to JJ and everyone else who made it because that is no small task; I am not one who hated the prequels but can understand why they are widely disliked and this movie had to get back to what the original trilogy was trying to do and most importantly the way it did it.

I will need to see this movie at least one or two more times because I already know I missed or don't remember well enough all of the cool things they did but that's ok; this movie raced you through this story and it was amazing to feel, for the first time since I was a kid, what it was like to not know what was going to happen next in a Star Wars film. That was probably my favorite part of the entire experience.

Finally there are some really good critical reviews of the film out there, and TC did a great one in this thread, and they all seem to have several similarities that I will look for more closely when I re-watch. There was just a 0% chance that I was going to react with anything other than complete satisfaction after the first watch. I'm really glad Star Wars is back!
JJxvi
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IMO the coincidences that were created at the beginning of ANH are mostly the result of the family connections introduced in ESB and RotJ. The fact that Leia and Luke are twins and the daughter of Vader makes the fact that the droids went directly to Luke a bigger coincidence than just the droids find their way to the hero to kick start the plot, which is all you know when you first watch ANH.
Brian Earl Spilner
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quote:
quote:
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Revenge of the Sith is a better overall movie despite what the prequel gaters will have you believe.


Better than Return of the Jedi? lol...
The positives of the film was getting the Anakin Skywalker we had all been waiting the entire trilogy for, probably the second best lightsaber duel in the franchise between Kenobi and Anakin, and a film that was more about the Jedi, Anakin, Kenobi, and Padme than it was about galactic politics like the two previous PT films. It was also very entertaining, something that much of the PT lacked IMO.

Now are Anakin's whining, at times crappy dialogue, Vader's reaction to hearing that Padme died at his hands, and poor romantic scenes made up for? I don't think so. That's why IMO ROTJ is a superior film, despite the decision to make Leia Luke's sister in the film and the Ewok super army.
The climax of ROTJ I would put slightly ahead of ROTS. However, the lows of ROTJ are much lower than ROTS'. There are cringy moments in both movies but nothing worse than seeing Ewoks taking out Stormtroopers with rocks.

And in place of all the crappy Ewok stuff, we're getting Order 66, the birth of the Empire, and Anakin/Vader marching on the Jedi Temple.

Also, the opening battle over Coruscant > Jabba's Palace, until the moment at the Sarlacc pit.
The Collective
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I guess I love the tone of ROTJ so much; Luke's entrance to Jabba's palace and force choking the guards. So dark.
Brian Earl Spilner
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That was pretty f-ing baller.
Saul Goodman
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That's pretty much I feel about it. ROTS is far and away the best of the prequels, but I still enjoy ROTJ more.
Bruce Almighty
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The first half of ROTS is still slow, but the second half is better than the second half of ROTJ.
Duncan Idaho
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The greatest thing about this movie was that it made the prequels about as relevant as the clone wars TV show.

Brian Earl Spilner
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Posted this right after watching TFA. After two more viewings, I stick by it.

1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Force Awakens
4. Sith
5. Jedi
6. Phantom Menace
7. Clones
Zombie Jon Snow
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quote:
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I stand corrected...

So was Grizz Fix in the original version or was he digitally remastered?

quote:
In the OT why did Leia ship get stopped right by the exact planet where the guy she needed to get the message to was, where a kid of the evil Vader was in hiding, who happened to be her brother, where the droids found that kid and they found that old man while encountering almost no one else on that entire planet....

Leia was on her way to see Obi-wan, that's why she got stopped there, and sent the droids to the planet to look for him.

The droids didn't find Obi-wan, Obi-wan was watching over Luke, and showed up when the Tusken Raiders attacked.

Luke was on the same planet because Obi-wan followed him there.

They didn't run into anyone else because Luke lived on a condenser farm and they got attacked along the road to town.

Now, Luke's uncle buying R2 and 3PO was a coincidence.


Still awfully convenient....I mean why was she going to find Obi Wan in the first place (her fathers orders sure, but)....


  • How did she even know he would still be there or still be alive, he could have been dead
  • Obi Wan was one Jedi with no apprentices, no army of any kind, he couldn't even defeat Vader himself
  • He didn't even really end up doing anything significant except turning off the power to let them escape and then sacrificing himself. he didn't fight anyone else except one guy in a bar skirmish.
  • He didn't have a ship for transport or even the money to hire one.

Leia risked everything to get to this one guy???? He was their only hope??? And it was to get him to Alderaan for some reason...well that never materialized.

Great movie and I love it but....simple plot driven contrivances...or the FORCE acting to put people together....pretty much the same thing.



I never got the impression she was there to find Obi Wan at all. She was carrying the death star plans to the rebels when she was waylaid by the Empire near Tatooine and out of desperation sent her droid down to the planet to the only person available who she might be able to trust that she knew of.


except her full recorded message indicates she was there for him specifically....

"General Kenobi, years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."
Fat Bib Fortuna
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However, the lows of ROTJ are much lower than ROTS'.
It's over Anakin, I have the high ground.

Love won't save you, Padme. Only my new powers can do that!

From my point of view, it is the Jedi who are evil.

Are you going to kill me?
I would certainly like to!

You are so... beautiful.
It's only because I'm so in love.
No, it's because I'm so in love with you.

Anakin Skywalker. I expected someone with your reputation to be a little... older.
General Grievous... you're shorter than I expected.

Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo; so long ago when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war. (THE WHOLE PT WAS ABOUT POLITICS YOU DUMMY)

I will learn the truth of all this quickly.

My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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That's kinetic energy at work friend. I believe that over the Chosen One losing a duel because someone is standing on a slight incline.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Well then you are lost!
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Well then you are lost!
It's over Anakin, I'm standing on the pitcher's mound!

That's what that argument is.
jabberwalkie09
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The climax of ROTJ I would put slightly ahead of ROTS. However, the lows of ROTJ are much lower than ROTS'. There are cringy moments in both movies but nothing worse than seeing Ewoks taking out Stormtroopers with rocks.

And in place of all the crappy Ewok stuff, we're getting Order 66, the birth of the Empire, and Anakin/Vader marching on the Jedi Temple.

Also, the opening battle over Coruscant > Jabba's Palace, until the moment at the Sarlacc pit.
I'm not saying that Chuck Norris' build a bear army wasn't ridiculous, but it was at least enjoyable. The emotions in ROTJ were much, much more genuine than those forced romantic scenes in ROTS (Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo; so long ago when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war). That's not to mention some of the other lines of dialogue in the film that was just..... clunk or awkward.

Speaking of Order 66 (let's be honest, the march on the Temple was part of that) and the birth of the Empire, the Jedi were totally oblivious to Palpatine being Sidious and having manipulated the events of the ENTIRE trilogy, and it was spelled out to Anakin by Palpatine himself. I mean... come on.... I would rather had Bothans informing the Jedi Council as to actions of Palpatine.

The opening at Jabba's Palace was actually pretty dark. Luke straight up choked a *****. The pace started pick up at that point, but as opposed to the rest of the trilogy Leia, Lando, and Chewie going to rescue Han was much more undercover as opposed to coincidental rescue like we had in ANH. So the setup was slower. Jabba was a crime lord on Tatooine. Going in guns blazing seems like a bad idea.
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The first half of ROTS is still slow, but the second half is better than the second half of ROTJ.
Funny thing is that I'll watch the second half of ROTJ before I watch the second half of ROTS. Ewoks and all. I remember the sense of risk being much great and real than at any point in ROTS or the PT for that matter. Maybe that's because I grew up with the OT on VHS and watched them frequently. About as frequently as I watched the original Star Trek films or Top Gun.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Funny thing is that I'll watch the second half of ROTJ before I watch the second half of ROTS. Ewoks and all. I remember the sense of risk being much great and real than at any point in ROTS or the PT for that matter.
Well sure. With the prequels we know the outcome going in, so it's naturally lower stakes.
 
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