I think it's pretty obvious at this point that the writers know exactly what they are doing.

I'll be the first to call it: Charlie ain't dead.

We'll see if I am right in February.

Sorry Log, you're the first and last to call that!

i don't want him to be dead...but i'm thinking he is.

quote:

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i can't emphasize this enough. all the people *****ing about the hurley/van episode and about how nothing happened and it was just filler. bull****. I really wish these people would stop watching the show and leave it to people who actually enjoy the show, not to mention have some faith in the producers. what's the point if you keep *****ing about how they should do this or they shouldn't have done that? let the producers weave their tales, then judge it. in the meantime, enjoy the ride. if you can't enjoy this, then tv really isn't for you.

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That episode still had precious little new/useful information. I LOVE the show. The fact is, though, that this show is not Gilligan's Island. It takes pride in being a high intensity, primetime soap opera. Hurley's van, Bernard's SOS and Aaron's Baptism were all pretty pointless on-island episodes. I also think that it was really stupid to make a big deal out of Jack's tattoos. These producers are not morons though, so I will not be surprised when we expand on Phuket and the tats to make them more relevant. I definitely give Lost a ton of credit for being willing to react to viewer comments while not compromising everything.

Redstone should be banned.

i didnt see what redstone posted, but since the show has been aired, can i ask what he gave away?

I can't believe I'm admitting this, but I just rewatched the episode and noticed this...if you rearrange the letters of the funeral home (Hoffs-Drawlar), it says "flash forward".

edit: Just saw this mentioned on a previous page, so I'll save you the trouble...Vibs bombs Cru's moon!

[This message has been edited by SlimM (edited 5/24/2007 2:39a).]

Here it is...

- When the Dharma Initiative went under (as in when Ben killed them all), Charles Widmore (Penelope's dad) lost any contact or connections he may have had with the island (seeing as though his company was partnered with and/or the company that funded Dharma). Widmore knew of the island, obviously, but not its exact location. And with his connection severed, it made the island that much harder to find again.

- When Michael and Walt left the island and returned to civilization, Widmore acquired the coordinates/whereabouts from Michael, most likely by paying him off (Michael was in desperate financial trouble before the plane crash, needed the money).

- It's Michael in the coffin. The few people featured in the funeral scene (besides Jack) were of color (both inside and outside the funeral home), which would lead us to the logical conclusion that it's a man of color inside the coffin as well.

- Because Michael sold the coordinates to Widmore (thus allowing the team of people to find and "kill everyone" on the island), Kate is pissed at Michael for doing so, refuses to attend his funeral.

- For Widmore, the island is like Jurassic Park: a high concept idea that resulted in a bad investment. It needs to be erased because everything has essentially gone to hell and he would be the one ultimately responsible. OR he wants to use it now for his own gain.

- In the purging of the island by Widmore's team (Season 4/5), somehow Kate and Jack either A) are able to escape with a helicopter/stow away on their ship, but only alone, or B) are personally selected by Widmore's team and taken back to civilization. Either way, they're the only two of the survivors who make it back (for now). Once there (like Michael), it's obviously made public that they too are survivors of Flight 815 (hence the "Golden Pass" Jack refers to).

- However, Widmore has Jack and Kate by the leash in some way, because they are made to lie about certain circumstances concerning their survival/rescue (hence Jack's telling Kate he doesn't want to lie anymore).

- And FYI, the "he" Kate has to get back to after meeting up with Jack is either A) a new parole officer, or B) Widmore himself, keeping a close eye on her. I highly doubt it's Sawyer, who I believe is still back on the island, thus the motivation for Kate to ultimately go back as well.

- By the end of season 4 (or 5), for whatever reason, the survivors on the island are not yet killed by Widmore's team. This is why Jack is in such despair. As their supposed leader, he has (in whatever way) abandoned them when they needed him the most.

- And THAT is why Jack is so upset at the news of Michael's death. Not because he lost someone he cared about, but because Michael was Jack's only (known) means of getting back to the island to rescue his friends (via the coordinates).

- This is why Penelope is so important and serves as the means by which Jack (and possibly Kate) are able to make it back to the island (Season 6). This is why the writers created another outside source (Penelope) with a connection to the island (Desmond). By using her father's equipment (most likely without his knowing), she's able to ultimately find the whereabouts to the island, thus allowing Jack to "go back" and be a true hero this go around.

so then who is adam and eve?

Kate looked different when she met Jack at the airport. At first I wasn't sure it was her. Either she was younger or had some surgery somewhere but she definitely looked a little different than we've seen her to this point.

I think she just looked different because she had makeup on, and she doesn't wear makeup on the island!

Kate looked hotter than ever.

When Jack was in the pharmacy getting pills, they referred to him as the "hero". Did they make it clear that he was the hero for pulling the lady out of the car wreck (that he caused), or could he be the hero for getting everyone off the island?

Lindelof, speaking about Redstone-like jackasses:

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Damon, first, I want you to know that last week, I hated me. I hated people who do what I do, because it honestly broke my heart that the huge "flash forward" twist of the finale was spoiled on a Website. I know you were trying extremely hard to protect that.

It was unfortunate. You know, I think there will always be people who want to turn to the last page of the book, but I feel that those people are almost universally disappointed with what they read there, because if it's cool, they don't understand the context, and if it sucks, they feel like they've saved themselves time. But no one skips to the end of life. You have to live it, and it's just disappointing to me that people don't respect the integrity of the show enough to let it unfold naturally. There is a fine line between intriguing the audience with what's to come and giving them the whole shebang. And I feel the line was crossed with the finale this year, and it's really disappointing. Which is why, if we're going to talk about these things, I would at least like to come to you, because I know you'll handle it responsibly and not cross that line.

How are you dealing with the Spoilergate aftermath?

Well, with regard to season four, Carlton and I are going into complete and utter radio silence. I know a lot of people are going to be frustrated, but I think if things had gone a little differently in terms of the finale getting spoiled, we might have been a little more open to talking about it. But now we're all bitter. [Laughs.] No, honestly, the reason for the silence is we don’t want to tell the audience what to think about where the show is going to be next year. The way the finale concluded and what happens next is open to interpretation. I think it had a real imaginative quality to it that hopefully engaged the audience's imagination the way the show did when they first saw the pilot.

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TCTTS - Take that down if it gives away things for future seasons.

I stopped reading about 1/2 way through it.

Calm down, that is just what he is predicting. We don't need to take down predictions.

Also a question to Lindelof:

quote:

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The big set for season four is called the Ruins.

False.

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I have a thought:

So were we seing flash forwards or were we seing flashbacks to the island during this episode?

Think about it, Walt looked way older..

[This message has been edited by docbow (edited 5/24/2007 8:02a).]

Walt will probably be 5'10 by the time S4 starts filming.

Walt looking way older was the reason he and Michael were written off in the first place...there is no logical way to explain Kelley's natural rapid growth.

Does anyone else think Locke might take over for Ben as leader of the Others?

My prediction: the "future" you saw for Jack and Kate wasn't a linear future, it's an alternate future. It wasn't Jack and Kate AFTER being rescued from the island, it was Jack and Kate had the plane crash never happened.

Maybe the only way they could be rescued from the island, or get off of the island, isn't by being taken off in helicopters, it's by changing those things in the past that made them get on Flight 815 in the first place, so, Flight 815 never actually happened. Somehow Widmore changes their pasts, getting them off of the island by switching their lives to an alternate future.

But, just like Desmond has "flashes" on the island now, in their alternate future, all the LOSTies still remember each other, the crash, and the island, though it never actually happened.

That would explain why Jack tells the Head of Surgery to go "go upstairs and get my Dad, and if I'm drunker than him, you can fire me". As though his Dad never died in Sydney, and Jack never took the trip that got him on Flight 815. In this alternate future, Jack never ratted out his Dad for working drunk, and never got him fired; his Dad is still alive and works at the hospital.

And that's why Oceanic Airlines is still in business; flight 815 never crashed....

I think it's Ben in the casket. In his alternate future, because most of his life was on the island, there's no one that knows him away from it. He dies alone. Jack feels guilty that he chose to change everyone's future (which is pretty much unanimously worse for everyone), he now knows Ben was telling the truth, and he goes to Ben's funeral out of guilt and regret. Kate still hates Ben, and doesn't understand why Jack would pay any homage to him & go to his funeral...

So, Locke's right about fate & destiny; their lives happened the way they were supposed to happen, and they were supposed to crash and be on the island. Had things been different for them in the past, and those things that led them all to Flight 815 not happened, their lives would all be the worse for it...

Though, it doesn't make up for the Gold ticket that Jack has for Oceanic to fly anywhere...


[This message has been edited by BDG02 (edited 5/24/2007 8:32a).]

My wife mentioned this to me, the annoying music that Jack was listening to on his way the viewing, was that Charlie's song??

I have no idea, just thought I would ask..

that cakset was awfully small, so I do not think it is Locke or Sawyer..

I don't think so.

It sounded like Nirvana or something instead of Charlie's pop sounding You All Everybody

quote:

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Though, it doesn't make up for the Gold ticket that Jack has for Oceanic to fly anywhere...

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Yeah, kind of a big hole in your theory.

That and people referring to Jack being a Hero -again-.

It was Nirvana.

It was Nirvana's "Scentless Apprentice" from In Utero, I think.

[This message has been edited by SlimM (edited 5/24/2007 8:54a).]

Thanks guys, I will let her know..

While I certainly enjoyed the episode. It did take a lot out of it having Redstone's post back when he posted it.

the music during the migration was amazing, by the way

I know whow as in the coffin!!!

Black neighborhood.... It has to be Billy D Williams, the Cobra!!! It makes perfect sense.

After this episode, I thought about the string theory and this island being a convergence of infinite realities.

I believe that Jacks desire to return back to the island is his realization that he and the survivors do not belong in that reality to which they have returned to (supposedly, their plane had crashed and was found with no survivors).

Going back to Hugo’s experience with “the numbers” where he experiences misfortune because of his implantation of them in the lottery. The origin of the numbers came from the island which is supposed to be isolated from the world and it’s various outcomes. But when a particular reality is introduced to a pollutant from the island (the numbers, the survivors…whatever), chaos ensues. Hence Jack’s attempt at suicide causing the car accident. Jack may have been experiencing these misfortunes ever since his rescue from the island.

Unfortunately, I think this theme is a bit too complicated for your average Lost viewer and the world would riot as a result of such a far fetched conclusion to the series.

can't stop thinking about this damn show!

new theory:

Widmore knows the lostites are on the island, but he can't 1)find it or 2) take any rescue there because he doesn't want the world to find out about what he's done (genetic testing) or that everyone is dead as a result of Ben's double cross. so maybe he plants the wreckage claiming their all dead, then goes back to kill everyone to cover up his mistake. then jack and kate get free, and widmore makes them make up some huge story about how they were adrift or something, threatening to kill them or their loved ones if they tell the truth.

don't forget that Redstone is the ******bag that, when someone asks for a book recommendations, always posts his list of 50 million books that he hasn't read.