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- When Kylo is interrogating Rey, does he put his helmet on top of Vader's ashes?

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Oh ****.

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1 - Why did they reveal Han as the father so early, and in such a weak way? Having Stoke say YOUR FATHER HAN SOLO was the dumbest way they could reveal that. Sure, we all thought it might be a possibility, but if I was editing the film, I would have created a little tension. I would have shown the scene with Kylo and Darth, had him say the grandfather line, then teased at Luke being the father a couple of times, before having Han later call out BEN, and then revealing him as the father. I just felt like that really lost a lot of steam.

2 - The spinning at the end still bothered me a bit. So I fixed it. When Rey was holding out the lightsaber, I watched for a second, then closed my eyes and just listened to the music. PERFECT ENDING. Why did they even have to show anything else?

Edit: forgot to say that I enjoyed the movie much more the 2nd time through because I wasn't sitting there the whole time wondering if they were really going to pull it off and put out a decent star wars movie. I just sat back and really enjoyed the ride the 2nd time, and it was so much fun.

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1- That started the inevitable build up to Han confronting and trying to convince (even though I think he knew in his heart that it was a losing proposition) Kylo to return home with him that sealed Han's fate.

2- I didn't like the spinning at the end either. Honestly I think the end with Rey going to find Luke was done so that it didn't completely mirror ANH's ending. IMO, there were two ways they could have ended it. They could have left it with them finding the map and leaving on the journey to find Luke. Or they could have ended with it with Luke taking the lightsaber from her and then saying a single line of dialogue.

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- When Kylo is interrogating Rey, does he put his helmet on top of Vader's ashes?

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Oh ****.

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This..... Is something I had not considered..... That's dark....

Here's how you end the movie - take out the spinning, Rey holds out the saber, cut to Luke's face, finish on a long, distant shot of the cliff, sunset on the horizon...



DUM DA DUM DA DUM DA DUM DUM DUM -

Directed by JJ Abrams

I had wondered how why he would have a bunch of gravel to put his helmet on rather than just a table. That's an interesting theory.

Also, I'm glad they didn't try for too big of a reveal with Kylo's parenting. Heck, I'd have been happy had Max von Sydow gone ahead and referred to Han and Leia instead of just saying "your family." This film wasn't about trying to fool us with a twist we had all speculated about since casting.

The only thing about the ashes theory is that they were on Starkiller Base and I believe Kylo's shrine to Vader was on the Star Destroyer, but it was something floating in my head since Thursday.

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This is the discussion Palpatine and Anakin have:

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Supreme Chancellor: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith who lived many years ago. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.
Anakin Skywalker: He could do that? He could actually save people from death?
Supreme Chancellor: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
Anakin Skywalker: What happened to him?
Supreme Chancellor: He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then one night, his apprentice killed him in his sleep. It's ironic that he could save others from death, but not himself.
Anakin Skywalker: Is it possible to learn this power?
Supreme Chancellor: Not from a Jedi.

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Plagueis was Darth Sidious's (Palpatine) master, and he states that he learned from him the ability to create life from the force. My inference from that exchange is that he is stating that he created Anakin from the force, I assume to bring about the prophecy.

It's just my own speculation, because I can't see any other reason they would have gone with the whole Darth Jesus angle otherwise.

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What if Plagueis was at the bottom of the Solo pit and saved him from death?

Rey is Luke's daughter. Luke sensed, through the force, that Rey would become the new Sith Lord. Luke has to leave Rey on Jakku so that she wouldn't learn the force then turn to the dark side. It was either that or kill her young. That's why Luke isn't so pleased to see her.

Not trolling...

Watched a 75 minute review posted by someone on one of these pages. 10 minutes devoted to this: is Han really dead?

We've seen characters fall before (Luke in Empire).
Or he's dead, First Order has the body, Snake is revealed to be Plagueis, and brings Han back to life. If Harrison Ford decided to come back, they could make up something. He did such a great job in this one!


The one thing I wanted was to have all three together one time.... isn't going to happen unless Han is alive or all three die.

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Not trolling...

Watched a 75 minute review posted by someone on one of these pages. 10 minutes devoted to this: is Han really dead?

We've seen characters fall before (Luke in Empire).
Or he's dead, First Order has the body, Snake is revealed to be Plagueis, and brings Han back to life. If Harrison Ford decided to come back, they could make up something. He did such a great job in this one!


The one thing I wanted was to have all three together one time.... isn't going to happen unless Han is alive or all three die.

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given what we know of Harrison Ford's disdain for the role (since 1983) and franchise and the fact that he wanted Han Solo to die in ROTJ and was upset that he did not.....

I think we can safely assume that the ONLY way he agreed to do this movie was if he was killed off permanently....save for any possible flashback scenes (which he likely would have had them film already).

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I have no doubt that Harrison Ford is done with this franchise.

I don't like it, but I'm ok with it. He was amazing in this movie and gave his all to go out with bang. Well done, Harrison.

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Yeah, I'm pretty certain this is it for Solo. If I remember correctly (might be completely making this up, but) Harrison Ford has been quoted as saying that he wished they had killed off Solo at the end of the original trilogy. So, this gives Ford closure on one of his iconic characters, in a death/way worthy of the character.

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Let me start off by saying I don't think Rey is a Kenobi.

That being said, Obi Wan wasn't the purest of Jedi and could have possibly "broken the code" when it comes to women.

In the Clone Wars (i.e. CANON), Obi- Wan admitted to Satine of Mandalore that he would have left the Jedi Order for her if she would have asked. Maybe they got busy and started an accidental lineage that led to Rey?

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They better not expect me to watch F'n cartoons to understand all this stuff. If so I'm out.

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This. I don't want to invest in other places for lore. Might as well be the Matrix.

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I had wondered how why he would have a bunch of gravel to put his helmet on rather than just a table. That's an interesting theory.

Also, I'm glad they didn't try for too big of a reveal with Kylo's parenting. Heck, I'd have been happy had Max von Sydow gone ahead and referred to Han and Leia instead of just saying "your family." This film wasn't about trying to fool us with a twist we had all speculated about since casting.

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I agree with this even though I had brought up the reveal thing earlier. I didn't intend to come off thinking they should do even more of the I am your father stuff, just that they revealed it in such a blah way. having a guy literally just speak the words YOUR FATHER HAN SOLO was so dumb, as if he is treating Kylo like an idiot, having to remind him that he's his father. They didnt have to do a big reveal, just felt that one deserved a little bit less hand-holding.

io9 / "33 Questions We Desperately Want Answered After Star Wars: The Force Awakens"

Film School Rejects / "15 Big Questions Left Unanswered by Star Wars: The Force Awakens"

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Let me start off by saying I don't think Rey is a Kenobi.

That being said, Obi Wan wasn't the purest of Jedi and could have possibly "broken the code" when it comes to women.

In the Clone Wars (i.e. CANON), Obi- Wan admitted to Satine of Mandalore that he would have left the Jedi Order for her if she would have asked. Maybe they got busy and started an accidental lineage that led to Rey?

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They better not expect me to watch F'n cartoons to understand all this stuff. If so I'm out.

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This. I don't want to invest in other places for lore. Might as well be the Matrix.

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Enjoy another franchise then

It's pretty clear that while you can get the story from the films, if you want to go into more detail the comics, books, and animated series have other information and backstory.

I'm not sure how you'd expect to get information outside what's covered in the films without going to other sources though.

Also, may have been mentioned, but did you guys catch when Rey had on a Rebel [Anakin's] pilot helmet?

To me, that's the biggest confirmation the film gave that she's a Skywalker.

Edit: From Reddit --
"Little do we know Luke's just living off of his New Republic Veteran's benefits and is exploring the galaxy."

Lol

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I agree with this even though I had brought up the reveal thing earlier. I didn't intend to come off thinking they should do even more of the I am your father stuff, just that they revealed it in such a blah way. having a guy literally just speak the words YOUR FATHER HAN SOLO was so dumb, as if he is treating Kylo like an idiot, having to remind him that he's his father. They didnt have to do a big reveal, just felt that one deserved a little bit less hand-holding.

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Honestly, it played to me like they originally wanted to do that, but then realized if they wanted to build up the emotion of the Han/Ben scene at the end, that they'd have to clearly reveal it, and also reveal that Leia wants him back, etc. so it gave Han a reason to go other than just "going along for the ride." Also, since they did want to give Han his death sendoff, they needed to make sure it was a prominent part of the film. It'd be a bit too much to fully reveal to the audience that Han is Ben's father, only to have him die a second later.

In short, it was sort of sloppy, as it appeared they changed gears at some point in the process

Look, it's Star Wars. The franchise has never been the most perfectly or tightly written. It thrives in its creativity and its world. A few sloppy situations like that don't bother me when watching Star Wars. Another franchise? I might think about it a bit more, but not Star Wars.

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Also, may have been mentioned, but did you guys catch when Rey had on a Rebel [Anakin's] pilot helmet?

To me, that's the biggest confirmation the film gave that she's a Skywalker.

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Anakin wasn't a rebel, Luke was...... And I'm not sure that was Luke's pilot helmet.

Yep. Humor was great - probably the best of the series to this point.

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Also, may have been mentioned, but did you guys catch when Rey had on a Rebel [Anakin's] pilot helmet?

To me, that's the biggest confirmation the film gave that she's a Skywalker.

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Anakin wasn't a rebel, Luke was...... And I'm not sure that was Luke's pilot helmet.

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She also had a homemade rebel fighter pilot doll shown as she's making dinner

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Why did Poe Dameron leave Jakku?

Poe Dameron had one missionget the map to Luke Skywalker. He's forced to abandon that mission when the First Order arrives on Jakku and he's captured. Later Finn breaks him out and Poe ends up back on Jakku where the map still is, along with his droid BB-8. But after survivng the crash, instead of going after BB-8, he tells Finn he just left. Poe had no reason to think Finn would complete his mission for him, so why did he leave? We don't know. Maybe Poe was brainwashedand later, we'll see him turn?

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That's actually an interesting question. Not only why did he leave, but how?

We have to assume the FO was combing the desert (heh...) to find Poe and Finn after the crash, so it could be plausible that he was found and somehow programmed/brainwashed as a mole. Though destroying the Starkiller Base pokes a pretty huge hole in that theory.

I'm still a fan of the original: "I dunno... I can imagine quite a bit."

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you probably are not wrong that there is soemthing more at play here - they have successfully programmed thousands or millions....but not him.

and storm troopers WERE clones in the Prequels....at some point that changed (it was mentioned in this film actually that maybe they should go back to clones)....this is the FIrst Order not the Empire so presumably they got their storm troopers in a different manner.

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By the time the Empire is in place, most stormtroopers were not clones. Most were volunteers. That is what I read over time about the troops.

Han was really the only comic relief in the OT (aside from the droids), however, this one had it coming from multiple people.

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Also, may have been mentioned, but did you guys catch when Rey had on a Rebel [Anakin's] pilot helmet?

To me, that's the biggest confirmation the film gave that she's a Skywalker.

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Anakin wasn't a rebel, Luke was...... And I'm not sure that was Luke's pilot helmet.

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Doubt it was Luke's helmet. I took that scene to signify that she dreams about being a Resistance pilot or more about what life would be like off-world. Did you see her face light up when Finn said he was with the Resistance?

Her character is similar to Luke's in a New Hope, though. Bright eyed, pure hearted, fearless.

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IIRC, Luke's helmet had the red rebel insignia on it. The one Rey put on had gold insignia. So yeah, I kind of doubt it was Luke's. I agree with her dreaming about life off of Jakku.

Damn, it took me almost 2 days to read this whole thread. Here are my thoughts:

1. Rey is obviously a Skywalker, and I lean heavily toward her being Luke's daughter. Orphan kid on a desert planet, great pilot, great mechanic that is really strong in the force? Sounds a lot like Anakin. My only hesitation to be all in on this is that Han had a real affinity to her, her enthusiasm for the Millenium Falcon, and how she seemed a natural at piloting and fixing it. She could be a Solo, although I admit there are more hoops to jump through for that to be the case.

Some of brought up the question of Jedi not having kids and the theory of Rey being Obi-Wan's kin. My opinion on this is that Obi-Wan was too tied up in the Jedi code to ever go against it. As someone pointed out, in the Clone Wars series (which like or not is canon), Obi-Wan refused to leave the order for a woman that he probably loved. Also, he couldn't ever offer Anakin anything other than trust the council, trust the force, even though I believe he wanted to tell him something else. No way he has a kid.

Luke, on the other hand, came along well after the fall of the Jedi, and Yoda never bothered to tell him that love/families/attachment was forbidden. In fact, Luke's attachment to family is what brought Vader back to the light side. I have no problem with him starting a family. The question obviously is who is the mother, what happened to her?

2. At first I was a little disappointed how fast Rey was able to handle the lightsaber against Kylo. After thinking about it more, I relent a little b/c of the fact he was hurt pretty badly, both by Chewie and Finn, and he still had her on the run until she let in the Force. He obviously is not that strong a fighter, even if he has a strong mastery of the Force. Freezing blaster shots and people is friggin awesome. But Darth Maul would have eaten him up in a duel.

I don't have issue with her using the mind trick. She obviously was pretty strong willed to push back against Kylo's intrusions and to turn the tables on him. Why is it such a problem that she mind tricked a Stormtrooper, especially since it took 2 failed attempts?

3. The fact that Kylo is possibly the leader of a group of Knights implies to me that there are maybe others like him that are Force wielders, although we see no others with ignited lightsabers in Rey's vision. I'm thinking Snoke is not a Sith and definitely not Plagueis. If he was a Sith, I believe there wouldn't be a group of force users led by Kylo, and that Kylo would have been way, way more powerful with a lightsaber, even injured. That means it's a big question where Snoke came from and what he knows about the Dark Side. I think it was pretty obvious that Maz was making a distinction between Sith and the First Order.

4. As to Kylo, I love that he views the light side as a temptation and trying to resist. I think him killing Han was the act that makes him unable to be redeemed. Vader came back b/c of his attachment to family. Kylo severed that attachment and I'll be pretty disappointed if he's saved in the end.

Can't remember all the other stuff I wanted to address on this thread, but those are probably the biggest things. I have no problem with Maz having the lightsaber and it calling to Rey.

This link has a thorough review of changes/additions in TFA novelization.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/spoilers-want-a-few-more-hints-about-the-force-awakens-take-a-look-at-the-novelization.html

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Also, may have been mentioned, but did you guys catch when Rey had on a Rebel [Anakin's] pilot helmet?

To me, that's the biggest confirmation the film gave that she's a Skywalker.

Edit: From Reddit --
"Little do we know Luke's just living off of his New Republic Veteran's benefits and is exploring the galaxy."

Lol

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False, or at least the internet says differently:

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According to the Star Wars: The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary, the helmet Rey wears belonged to an X-wing pilot named Captain Dosmit Rh, who flew for the Tierfon Yellow Aces.

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One of my friends just said that he thinks the same music was playing when they revealed Snoke and when Palpatine was talking about Plagueis. I haven't been able to check to see if that's true, but I was just wondering what yall thought about that

They're both vocal tracks and they sound very similar, but the melody is not the same.

But they definitely wanted us to draw a connection there.

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4. As to Kylo, I love that he views the light side as a temptation and trying to resist. I think him killing Han was the act that makes him unable to be redeemed. Vader came back b/c of his attachment to family. Kylo severed that attachment and I'll be pretty disappointed if he's saved in the end.

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I agree. Kylo is already different from Anakin's story because he chose to kill his own family. Vader couldn't do that in ESB and couldn't watch his own son be tortured by the Emperor. There was more good in Vader, than there is in Kylo. Perhaps than there ever was in Kylo.