I really think there were a few moments that were so lazily crafted into the movie - like Maz and the lightsaber - that people take a lot of the other minor coincidences - like the Falcon encounter - and magnify their significance. The film is weighed down by a crap load of chance encounters and retreaded content, but like most have said, I don't know how you squeeze all the bridge items and nostalgia into this movie without making some convenient sacrifices within the story.

I tend to agree. It seems like dumping the ship was a bit of a bluff by Solo.

quote:

---

Well, a lot changed after they went to Maz's - they weren't expecting to get attacked by Kylo and have Rey captured and the whole place destroyed. Maybe they were planning on getting a clean ship until all that happened.

---

they went back to a rebel base after the castle before going to the ice planet and after blowing up that planet.

plenty of opportunity to get an untraced ship....

the FO building a bigger death star, nobody can come up with any other weapon?

Eh, they aren't very imaginative. Maybe they don't need to make a weapon that has to move around (unsure if it could move or needed to) and retrofitting a planet was easier. Didn't bother me much.



30 years later and Admiral Akbar and Nien Numb are still in the same positions ,does nobody but Leia get promoted or retire?

Small detail, but I agree, would have made sense to put them a little higher up.



Kylo Ren decides he doesn't need the droid because he has Rey and she has seen the map...really???

It was pretty obvious that the more we learned about Kylo, the more we realized he wasn't some wise and older bad ass. He was a dumb kid who was overly confident and didn't think clearly. Plus, the rebels were closing in on them as the FO was slowly being overcome by the resistance. He made the decision to leave right then versus keep looking for the droid.



Kylo Ren then pulls a James Bond and leaves the captive alone conveniently so she can escape...in fact he ironically leaves her guarded only by James Bond (Daniel Craig playing the Storm Trooper)

Again, he was just immature and under-estimated her power/abilities.

So, I see the Han rumor back in Feb. Nice that I was able to avoid this spoiler:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/star-wars/11420529/Star-Wars-has-the-most-shocking-Force-Awakens-secret-yet-been-revealed.html

A few of these have been covered already, one or two to rehash and one or two I don't quite agree with.

quote:

---

- Finally, hours later (for them), when Rey randomly-and-out-of-no-where finds Luke's long lost lightsaber in a random treasure chest in the basement of a random castle, Abrams doesn't even have a reason why, and actually had a character basically say, "We'll explain it in the next movie!" That one was the icing on the cake for me, and maybe the most egregious. I still cannot believe that is how Luke's lightsaber was inserted into the plot of this movie. After all the speculation, that element is such a let down.

---

This isn't an unfair criticism, but I think it's also pretty intentional on Han's part that he brings Rey to Maz. We don't know why yet, and it did feel a bit random, but I can sort of buy that it Rey was there for a reason. I don't recall all the dialogue with Han and Maz there, definitely want to pay more attention to those sequences in a rewatch.

As per Maz, as a VFX guy I'm generally very critical and I actually thought she looked really good, though again I'll need to pay more attention in a second viewing. I can see the argument of her being a CG character either way, but considering it was a Yoda-esque character I get why they chose the direction they did.

(Random note: in the "Art of" book they said that when Lupita visited ILM and got to see the character, she said Maz reminded her of her grandmother. Interesting connection to the character there.)

Totally agreed on Snoke as well as the general power struggle/relationship between the First Order/Empire/Rebellion/Resistance, and that was probably my biggest issue in the film. I didn't really understand who or what Snoke was and his relationship to the other characters, you don't have to bluntly spell it out but some more exposition on him and the First Order would've been nice and not tough to insert.

quote:

---

I touched on this earlier, but just to reiterate; the many, many homages to A New Hope (along with bits of Empire andJedi) just didn't work for me. There's a difference between cute, self-referential one-liners here and there (which I thought became overkill, but were ultimately fine), and just straight up redoing the plot to A New Hope for no apparent reason. Again, give me explanation in-movie as to why, and I'll most likely buy in. But as is, I just can't understand why they chose to go the remake route, almost beat for beat. Hardly anything felt new. Hardly anything felt fresh. It was just the OT on steroids, except with different characters. By the end of movie, watching yet another X-Wing squadron take out an evil, planet-size weapon - after Han and co. disabled yet another shield on the ground - the remake nature of the whole ordeal had just wore me down so much. Do some of you really think that seeing that scenario again, for the THIRD time in FOUR movies, was invigorating? Sure, the action and dynamic between Rey, Kylo, Han and Finn being spliced in between that sequence was intriguing, but I felt absolutely nothing as Poe blasted his way through Starkiller Base, in what felt like a shot-for-shot amalgamation of the third acts of both A New Hope andReturn of the Jedi.

---

Interesting, because for me it did feel fresh despite rehashing some of those sequences. I did totally recognize a lot of the same elements from A New Hope, and I feel that may have been intentional to some extent to make it feel familiar against after the very foreign feeling prequels.

quote:

---

• I needed another line or two of context as to who Max von Sydow was playing. More importantly, why and how did he have a map to Luke Skywalker? And please, don't tell me, yet again, "They're saving that for Episode VIII!" A). Why did a map to Luke Skywalker even exist? Couldn't Sydow's Lor San Tekka have just written the name of the planet/system down on a piece of paper? B). Still, let's say it was in uncharted territory, requiring elaborate navigation... had Tekka been in contact with Luke? Did Luke share his own whereabouts? Or was Tekka backstabbing Luke by giving up his location? Honestly, I wanted to see that movie... one in which Tekka (or preferably Poe) personally discovered Luke's whereabouts, then had to desperately maneuver his way across the galaxy to tell the Resistance. I guess the argument could be made that Tekka knew the whereabouts of theJedi Temple Luke was seeking, and the Resistance hoped Luke would be there, but I don't think that was ever made clear (though I could be wrong).

---

Again, totally agree. At least some callback to him later on, talk about his sacrifice/importance/etc. Same goes for the Knights of Ren.

quote:

---

Again, that's not a scientific gripe on my part, it's a narrative, storytelling gripe. There's a line one shouldn't cross with some of this stuff, or else you risk going so big that the stakes simply don't matter any more. Abrams has yet to figure that out, hence Justin Lin publicly stating that they've basically had to completely disregard the events of Into Darkness for Star Trek Beyond, something Rian Johnson may end up having to do here.

---

Just a note, but I personally wouldn't use Justin Lin's thoughts to support my storytelling points

Like you, I'm a Rian Johnson fan (Brick is one of my favorite movies) and have high hopes for Episode VIII. This one wasn't perfect, but I had a blast and I'm totally bought back into the Star Wars universe.

I don't think most of this is *****ing. I loved and thoroughly enjoyed the movie, but can admit that some of the biggest questions going into 8 came from some clunky scenes

quote:

---

quote:

---

Follow the yellow brick road.

---

Then people would be on here *****ing about that.

"What was this? The Wizard Of The Force? C3PO was like the Scare Crow with no brain. Finn needed to find courage to fight for something, like the lion. And Rey was looking for a home. Home is where the HEART is. She needed a heart just like the tin man. I mean how unoriginal."

People will ***** no matter what.

---

Spaceballs already did the Wizard of Oz in space thing.

quote:

---

Random jackass thought: I hope Snoke is actually like Yoda-sized when we see him in real life.

---

We said the same thing coming out of the theater.

quote:

---

I wasn't too educated on who Rian Johnson is, so I looked him up just now. Homeboy directed three of the best episodes of a little show called Breaking Bad.

Breaking Bad (TV Series) (3 episodes)
- Ozymandias (2013)
- Fifty-One (2012)
- Fly (2010)

I now have total faith in him

---

Those are all amazing episodes, but its kinda of incredible that they trusted a guy with 9 directing credits to his name with Ep VIII. http://m.imdb.com/name/nm0426059/filmotype/director?ref_=m_nmfm_1

I loved the movie. Now for my question.

Did anyone notice that after the duel between Rey and Kylo Ren that Kylo Ren had a scar on his face that matched a scar on the face of Supreme Leader Snoke? Someone mentioned this and I don't remember seeing that. They could've been mistaken, it could be a coincidence or it could mean something if actually true. I seem to remember Snoke with a scar on the top of his head but not the face.

I missed it, I'll look with more attention upon next viewing & I'm just checking to see if anyone else caught this if it was true.

Just thinking out loud about Starkiller* Base... Maybe they have this superweapon that works over vast distances because they need one that does that?

Battleships, then carriers, were the kings of their times, but we developed ICBMs to do what they can't (while still holding onto those vessels).

Isn't it a logical progression? Death Star can destroy a planet that it's near; Starkiller goes one better in each respect.

*do they actually call it Starkiller in the movie? Probably been mentioned before, but that's a nice tip of the hat to Luke's original name when Lucas was coming up with the story.

quote:

---

I wasn't too educated on who Rian Johnson is, so I looked him up just now. Homeboy directed three of the best episodes of a little show called Breaking Bad.

Breaking Bad (TV Series) (3 episodes)
- Ozymandias (2013)
- Fifty-One (2012)
- Fly (2010)

I now have total faith in him

---

Let's just pray that there isn't time travel in SW8. Looper was enjoyable, but if you want to talk about a mind **** of scientific and logic issues....

The "yellow brick road" mention was a tongue-in-cheek acknowledgement that the structure wouldn't have been original, but I do think Abrams/Kasdan missed a real opportunity with the map. Think Robert Louis Stevenson instead of Wizard of Oz. Why did they run into Han and Chewie? Because the map led them there. Why did they find Luke's lightsaber? Because of the map. Why did Kylo and Han meet again? Because Kylo was following them. The map provides a perfectly believable way to connect the dots without crazy coincidences. Missed opportunity for better storytelling, IMO.

quote:

---

Giving Starkiller Base the ability to fire its weapon basically anywhere in the galaxy via hyperdrive is just asinine. Between this and Star Trek Into Darkness, what is it with Abrams and his complete disregard for distances across space and time? Yes, this is Star Wars. By no means do I need scientific accuracy. But with Into Darkness, Abrams rendered starships completely useless by giving a device that can fit in a duffle bag the ability to beam a human anywhere in the galaxy. Now, in TFA, the technology exists to kill anyone from anywhere in the galaxy. Again, that's not a scientific gripe on my part, it's a narrative, storytelling gripe.

---

Except you need a star to power it. Starkiller Base would have to travel to another system and absorb the new star. At least, that is how I understand it. It's a one star per shot weapon as I understand it.

quote:

---

There's a line one shouldn't cross with some of this stuff, or else you risk going so big that the stakes simply don't matter any more. Abrams has yet to figure that out, hence Justin Lin publicly stating that they've basically had to completely disregard the events of Into Darkness for Star Trek Beyond, something Rian Johnson may end up having to do here.

---

I don't think you get the point of why they have had to disregard the events of Into Darkness for Beyond. The problem with Into Darkness is that isn't that it made ships useless/pointless, it's that technology coupled with Khan's blood that the consequences of exploration by the crew were largely mitigated by magical plot devices to the point of being without consequence. I mean, what are the consequences of getting sick, injured, or dying while exploring when you have a magical cure all for ails you? In TFA, Starkiller Base isn't nearly as guilty of being a magical plot device. What I'm saying is that, even with Starkiller being ever present when it is powered/fueled, you can still tell a compelling story that has consequences. That was the problem with giving Khan's blood as the miracle cure, lack of consequences.

As it stands, I don't see the reason why Rian Johnson would have to ignore, well, anything in TFA going forward since he is writing the next two films like Lin (well really Simon Pegg and Doug Jung) did with Into Darkness.

quote:

---

quote:

---

I wasn't too educated on who Rian Johnson is, so I looked him up just now. Homeboy directed three of the best episodes of a little show called Breaking Bad.

Breaking Bad (TV Series) (3 episodes)
- Ozymandias (2013)
- Fifty-One (2012)
- Fly (2010)

I now have total faith in him

---

Let's just pray that there isn't time travel in SW8. Looper was enjoyable, but if you want to talk about a mind **** of scientific and logic issues....

---

Watch Brick. Trust me.

quote:

---

I need to stop reading this thread. Some of you nerds are starting to ruin my enjoyment of the movie with your whining.

---

YEP!!!! My last post basically said, "some of ya'll are thinking too hard about this"... and then a few post later somebody says something to the effect of, "the more I think about it the less impressed I am with the movie".

Stop thinking about it then! Sheesh. Kylo stops a laser with his mind! Rey pulls the exact same Lightsaber out of snow... gangster straight out of Empire! X-Wing dog-fights like we've never seen before. Han Solo and Chewy doing their Han and Chewy thing.

Movie was friggin awesome, that's all I know.

quote:

---

quote:

---

The film is weighed down by a crap load of chance encounters.

---

Droids finding Luke
Finding Old Ben
Finding Han/Chewy
Finding Death Star
Luke being alive on Hoth
Vader has hunch about Hoth after 3 years of searching.
Finding Yoda on swamp planet feet away from crash


Sometimes you just have to have it to advance the story.

---

I hear ya, but the droids are really the biggest piece of chance in that. They went looking for Old Ben, so they found him. They went looking for a pair of smugglers to get them off Tattooine. The Death Star had just blown up the place they were going. The story explained the how and why of how those things came together.

But Maz having having the lightsaber is unexplained. Chewy and Han's reason for being in the area to see the falcon while smuggling some crazy octopuses are unexplained.

I really don't want to bash on this movie, but there were definitely some big holes when going from A to B.

And I'm still pissed off that Leia didn't hug Chewie

I agree the Fly was stupid and Looper was a logistical mess (still fun though) but he did direct one of the greatest tv episodes of all time. I haven't seen Brick.

Related, discussion with Abrams about Johnson's role in Ep VII and moving forward. Some interesting tidbits:

quote:

---

When Rian who I admire enormously and adore, came on board, we met and talked with him about all the things we were working on and playing with, and he as a spectacular writer and director has taken those things and has written an AMAZING script that I think will be an incredible next chapter, some of which incorporating things we were thinking of and other things are things we could never of dreamed of.

---

http://www.slashfilm.com/how-j-j-abrams-and-rian-johnson-collaborated-to-create-the-future-of-star-wars/

quote:

---

The "yellow brick road" mention was a tongue-in-cheek acknowledgement that the structure wouldn't have been original, but I do think Abrams/Kasdan missed a real opportunity with the map. Think Robert Louis Stevenson instead of Wizard of Oz. Why did they run into Han and Chewie? Because the map led them there. Why did they find Luke's lightsaber? Because of the map. Why did Kylo and Han meet again? Because Kylo was following them. The map provides a perfectly believable way to connect the dots without crazy coincidences. Missed opportunity for better storytelling, IMO.

---

I hate to mix up my science fiction, but that sounds a bit like how you build your team in Mass Effect as well.

Did any of you guys play Destiny? There are parts of this movie that reminded me of the funniest and horrific part of the writing in the story for that game.

quote:

---

quote:

---

I need to stop reading this thread. Some of you nerds are starting to ruin my enjoyment of the movie with your whining.

---

This!

I was 8 when this first movie hit the big screen in 1977 ... and it was magical as a kid. As an adult I can watch Star Wars and nitpick it to death ... from the dialog to the story ... but what Star Wars was then and still should be is a simple story of good and evil with a bit of corny fun and cool special effects.

The main issue with the prequel films is that they lost their sense of fun and Lucas began to take himself way to serious. It went from farm boys and pirates to warriors and politicians .... from swashbuckling fun to senate debates. The fun that was in the first set seemed to fade away.

So now we hit this new era. And after seeing it ... it is so much the Star Wars that I remember as a kid ... it's a simple tale ... the beginning of one journey ... the end of another for one of our beloved characters. It's good and it's evil ... it's a bit corny in all the right ways ... it's funny and the special effects are cool. It's a journey back to what made Star Wars Star Wars.

The new characters rock ... Rey is amazing and Finn and Poe and Kylo all work so well. BB-8 is wonderful ... amazing they can pack so much emotion into a little rolling ball. In the end ... the film is FUN ... it's what Star Wars is supposed to be.

It's been said that Star Wars fans are the best allies and worst enemies the franchise has. We see that in this thread. Enjoy this for what it is ... we all have thoughts on every film of what we might have preferred or done different ... but this is the film we have. And it's Star Wars .... it's what Star Wars was when I was a wide eyed 8 year old seeing the star destroyer fill the screen in the opening scene .... it's a fun fun ride.

---

Agree completely

It was definitely a fun ride and captured what Star Wars is all about....and I saw that in my kids (teens) reaction as well as my own.


....but I think thats what makes Star Wars fans....we can love it and nit pick it....if you watch any of the major reviews with spoilers that have been posted here you'll see them saying the same things....they loved it, but lots of questions and lots of "we just have to accept this at face value because thats the way it is".

• there is an hour+ long one on page 13 of this thread with a panel of 5 from Collider that is very good
• and then"half in the bag" one on page 21 is also funny and pretty good, lots of sarcasm about dumb stuff but they still loved it
• here is the Kinda Funny Reacts review too which has similar takes, loved it but some stuff just had to be because it is Star Wars or it is a movie