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Rey is Kylo's sister. The old man at the beginning was her watchman. He was a Jedi sympathizer, hence why Kylo killed him so fast. Fin is Lando's son. I predict Luke will train her, but be lured to the dark side and Kylo will kill Luke to save his sister. Snoke is Darth Plagueis. The lightsaber scar on his head is the clue. He went into hiding after the Emperor "killed" him. Hopefully this all comes out in Episode VIII.

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Are you trying to ruin the ST. He already offend one of the original good guys. And having Finn be Land's son is the sort of thing that screwed up the PT. Not everything needs to relate. Let the create new characters

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I mentioned to my wife that maybe she was a Kenobi, interesting connection there with the dialogue in her vision.

As far Kylo, my sense was that he's really not advanced in his training yet. He has no control over his emotions, his lightsaber seems roughly constructed, he's not very refined when using his lightsaber. Freezing the laser blast was pretty badass though.

The lightsaber duel with Kylo and Rey has come up several times in discussion, for me that goes back to what Lucas said about the prequels. They were the first time we got to see Jedi and Sith in their prime who really knew how to use the Force, while what we saw in the original trilogy was old men and half trained Jedi.

This is a similar situation, we don't have combatants with the same level of training that we've seen before, if Rey even had any at all.

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Don't ever go back to anything Lucas says, about anything, and especially the trilogy.

Kylo looked to be using actual moves, and was clearly outclassing them both. Then she gave in to the force(which is what Maz told her to do by closing her eyes and looking at the light around her) and she is suddenly able to hold her own. WIth Kylo already injured by Chewie, she was able to take him out. And, if you look at her face, she definitely seemed to be potentially accessing the dark side to fuel herself.


I think what will be interesting to see, is how Fin was able to excel at just about every weaponry in the movie, including not doing too shabby with a lightsaber.

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Snoke is Darth Plagueis. The lightsaber scar on his head is the clue. He went into hiding after the Emperor "killed" him. Hopefully this all comes out in Episode VIII.

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Watch ROTJ, that scar looks similar to one that the Emperor has.

Something to discuss... Is that characters in the movie like Han Solo know about snoke. They refer to him by name. So if characters in the movie know that someone behind the scenes is controlling everything... then we are absolutely bound to find out more probably sooner than a second movie about snoke.

And does anybody else think that part of fins role in the next movie will be trying to discover who he is and where he came from?

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I think what will be interesting to see, is how Fin was able to excel at just about every weaponry in the movie, including not doing too shabby with a lightsaber.

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He was a train storm trooper since basically birth. He should know how to fight. I would say he wasn't all that well versed in the light saber. He looked awkward. The thing that was helping him was pure anger and rage. Powerful tools for the dark side.

I am surprised that so many people were able to wield Luke's lightsaber. They are usually attuned to their creator. And why was the blade blue? Wasn't his last saber green in ROTJ? At least Lucas was able to get color correct in Ep III....

That wasn't the green lightsaber from RotJ. It was Anakin's blue lightsaber that is taken by Obi-Wan from Mustafar, given to Luke in ANH, and lost on Cloud City when his hand gets chopped off.

I also don't think any book or movie has ever mentioned that only the lightsaber's creator can wield it.

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A cool way to start Ep VIII would be to see R2's journey from being in exile with Luke, to finding his way to the Resistance .

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FIFY

I don't think the attunement thing is canon unless I'm forgetting it from the clone wars cartoon. Also this is Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber they are using. It's blue.

So I was watching for a second time today, and when Han and Ben are talking on the bridge a women behind me leans over and whispers to her friends, "I bet he's going to kill him" but obviously loud enough for others to hear. If it was my first time watching I woulda slapped a ho!

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I think what will be interesting to see, is how Fin was able to excel at just about every weaponry in the movie, including not doing too shabby with a lightsaber.

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He was a train storm trooper since basically birth. He should know how to fight. I would say he wasn't all that well versed in the light saber. He looked awkward. The thing that was helping him was pure anger and rage. Powerful tools for the dark side.

I am surprised that so many people were able to wield Luke's lightsaber. They are usually attuned to their creator. And why was the blade blue? Wasn't his last saber green in ROTJ? At least Lucas was able to get color correct in Ep III....

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You are wrong in so many ways in this post. Do you not remember han using it on Hoth?

I think a lot of have to realize, anything you have read in the EU, does NOT apply to these movies.

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And why was the blade blue? Wasn't his last saber green in ROTJ? At least Lucas was able to get color correct in Ep III....

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Troll or idiot?

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Really?

And earlier when luke turns himself in Vader says:

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[igniting Luke's saber]
Darth Vader: I see you have constructed a new light saber. Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen

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Again, Luke built a NEW lightsaber by the time he faught Vader on the 2nd Death Star.

I will concede that it was ANAKIN'S lightsaber she used but not Luke's like they stated in the movie.

A few thoughts after a second viewing this morning:

- Stormtroopers aim sure got better
- Poe definitely took off his jacket
- Daniel Craig's voice is very noticeable as a Stormtrooper upon second viewing
- Maz definitely survived the attack
- I feel Phasma survived too
- Kylo is going to have a wicked scar on his face from Rey's lightsaber
- Really like that Kylo's world view is completely different. He is sure that dark is right, and he is tempted by the light, instead of vice versa. Completely explains him murdering Han
- Really curious about the original man with the map to Luke. Should find out more early in 8 as Luke and Rey talk.
- All-in-all, a good first movie, probably an 8.5 or 9. Lots of callbacks and storyline mirroring, hopefully that was a nice setup for more originality going forward. Loved the practical effects and well-placed CGI (excluding rapthaurs or whatever), especially the flying battles


Now with obvious stuff out of the way... Watching back for the second time, trying to pick up clues as to Rey's background gave me a few thoughts:
- Flashback included the future of the lightsaber as well as the past, in my opinion. Not sure what the first hallway was, but I think the Knights of Ren scene was when Kylo took down the academy. Then you also have the island where Luke is (definitely the same) and the snowy forest where they meet Kylo. Very clear it was Alec Guiness's voice upon second viewing too.
- Kylo was VERY angry when he found out a girl helped the droid and Finn. I don't think he knows of a family member and doesn't remember her from academy or anything.
- The vibe just didn't feel like she was Luke's daughter. Especially looking for things this time, I think you guys are reaching. Clearly very strong with force, but not necessarily a Skywalker. I think she was trained VERY early (or at least was around a lot of force users), but she was only about 5 when left on Jakku, making her younger than Kylo in my timeline of events. For Kylo to have destroyed the academy (and Luke's/Han's exploits to be a distant memory for commoners), he would have to be a tad older.

While she certainly could be a Skywalker, it just doesn't jive with my feelings after a second watch. Especially with the mom leaving her on Jakku with a slaver. Then again, that DOES make a good completion of a plotline from anakin being a slave on a desert planet to riding and falling to where she is as well. There are obviously many force-sensitive people out there, EVERYONE doesn't have to be descended from the immaculate conception of anakin...

Luke would obviously still have his green one. The one lost on cloud city is being used (go look at the construction of them).

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I think what will be interesting to see, is how Fin was able to excel at just about every weaponry in the movie, including not doing too shabby with a lightsaber.

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He was a train storm trooper since basically birth. He should know how to fight. I would say he wasn't all that well versed in the light saber. He looked awkward. The thing that was helping him was pure anger and rage. Powerful tools for the dark side.

I am surprised that so many people were able to wield Luke's lightsaber. They are usually attuned to their creator. And why was the blade blue? Wasn't his last saber green in ROTJ? At least Lucas was able to get color correct in Ep III....

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You are wrong in so many ways in this post. Do you not remember han using it on Hoth?

I think a lot of have to realize, anything you have read in the EU, does NOT apply to these movies.

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I think some of yall are missing my LAST SABER comment. Anakin's saber was lost at Cloud City when Vader cut off Luke's hand. In the EU it is recovered and made into a trophy by the Emperor. No real explinantion on how it was recovered and stored in a box on a random planet.

Really no arguments on either of those points, both pretty cut and dry

Exactly, no story or explanation.... Yet. Han asked where Maz got it and she said "An excellent question... For another day."

You're trying to argue semantics. It obviously became Luke's saber during episode 4. We all know it was originally anakins. Why do you think Kylo wants it so bad?

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Exactly, no story or explanation.... Yet. Han asked where Max got it and she said "An excellent question... For another day."

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I must have missed Han asking that question. I am hoping in the next two we some more evolving fighter tech. No Y-wings (granted old tech first used by the rebellion) nor A-Wings used, only the ugraded T-70s (T-65s were OT). I also wonder if the FO has any of the other tie fighter variations?

Anyone else hear the storm-troopers comm. "We think they might be splitting up.." throwback to Ep IV when Han, Chewie, Fin, and Rey were in the star killer base trying to blow things up?

I have to say, the idea of Rey wielding a double-bladed lightsaber sounds badass.

The Resistance is pretty small, both in numbers and in how widespread the fight is, so it makes sense to just use a limited number of ship types. Y-Wings were Clone Wars era ships, so old already. I do think you'll see new and different ship types going forward. That's just part of the formula.

They don't look much different, but the TIE/fo is much more advanced than the original. It has shields, better weapons, and a hyperdrive (at least the Special Forces TIE does). Again, I'm sure we'll see more variety going forward.

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I mentioned to my wife that maybe she was a Kenobi, interesting connection there with the dialogue in her vision.

As far Kylo, my sense was that he's really not advanced in his training yet. He has no control over his emotions, his lightsaber seems roughly constructed, he's not very refined when using his lightsaber. Freezing the laser blast was pretty badass though.

The lightsaber duel with Kylo and Rey has come up several times in discussion, for me that goes back to what Lucas said about the prequels. They were the first time we got to see Jedi and Sith in their prime who really knew how to use the Force, while what we saw in the original trilogy was old men and half trained Jedi.

This is a similar situation, we don't have combatants with the same level of training that we've seen before, if Rey even had any at all.

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Don't ever go back to anything Lucas says, about anything, and especially the trilogy.

Kylo looked to be using actual moves, and was clearly outclassing them both. Then she gave in to the force(which is what Maz told her to do by closing her eyes and looking at the light around her) and she is suddenly able to hold her own. WIth Kylo already injured by Chewie, she was able to take him out. And, if you look at her face, she definitely seemed to be potentially accessing the dark side to fuel herself.


I think what will be interesting to see, is how Fin was able to excel at just about every weaponry in the movie, including not doing too shabby with a lightsaber.

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Right, I wasn't arguing that Kylo wouldn't be better trained than they were, simply that he's nowhere near what we've seen from trained Jedi in the past. As per Rey, I thought it was pretty straightforward that she tapped into the Force and then started giving in to the dark side.

As mentioned Finn has been trained as a solider since a pretty early age, I'd expect him to be at worst competent with most weapons.

The novelization says that Kylo was just toying with Finn at first, then was excited that he put up a good fight. When Kylo got knicked by Finn, he decided enough was enough and was able to immediately end it.

I give this movie a 6/10. It was ok, but most of the hype it's getting is because it's being compared to the prequels, which were three of the worst movies in the history of cinema.


Some of my issues:

1. Mentioned already many times in this thread, but Rey apparently teaching herself how to use the force in like 30 minutes. Pretty stupid based on the amount of training it has taken people to master the force in every other Star Wars movie. There is no reason she should have been a match for Kylo Ren. This is an unforgivable error in my opinion. It completely ruins the movie for me.

2. The CGI monsters Han Solo was transporting. Really bad, completely out of place.

3. The general of the first order is apparently like 23 years old. Very strange and doesn't fit at all.

4. Rey and Fin were over-acted. Not egregiously, but definitely trying a little too hard to appear intense (her)/exasperated (him).

4. Not enough background or introduction to the conflict. Didn't know anything about the first order. Didn't know anything about the resistance. There was nothing explaining what has been going on generally in this universe for the past 30 years, not just with the old characters.

5. The story was obviously nearly identical to A New Hope, so I couldn't bring myself to care. I already knew the resistance was going to destroy the planet base thing. They did, no surprise. No reason to ever be concerned about the outcome of the movie. I don't understand this approach. This is the other error that is unforgivable for me.

6. Carrie Fischer looks like a hag. Man, she's aged badly, and she's not even 60. It was almost bad enough that I would have considered using another actor to play her. Hideous. Plus walking right by Chewie at the end...wtf?

7. A little too much flying from place to place. There could have been more time spent really establishing and developing a couple of planets instead of rushing on to the next one. If you think about A New Hope. It was really just Tatooine and the Death Star. They were briefly at the rebel base before the air assault, but it was really Tatooine and the Death Star, and you really felt like you knew those places by the time you left.

There are a few minor things, but those are the main ones.

I guess I just don't understand why the same formula was followed to the point where everybody in the audience knew what was going to happen. For example, I would have liked to see the assault on the planet base unexpectedly fail, and the resistance base destroyed to really up the stakes for the next two movies. I didn't feel like the odds were heavily against the resistance at all. That was not conveyed well.