**Official Game of Thrones: Season 5 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)**

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aggie93
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3:50p, 5/18/15
AG
They had the scene with Doran and Areo Hotah where he told him to protect the Princess so it makes sense, it is also consistent with the books. He knew they were dangerous and wanted them locked up before they screwed up his plans by acting rashly.

Agree that the Sand Snakes and Dorne in general may be the biggest flop of the Show so far. They took a pretty solid story and have made it crap with bad acting and a puzzling storyline. The most interesting characters are Doran and Hotah and we have barely seen them.

Bronn is definitely better in the Show than the books but I don't know about Jaime. Jaime has suffered from them trying to make him in to the good guy too much, he's almost goofy at times.
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PatAg
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3:55p, 5/18/15
AG
I'm not really liking all of the changes so far. Some are not bad, I enjoy bronn and jaime scenes.
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PatAg
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4:00p, 5/18/15
AG
Its not the George Martin way, but woulda been neat to make a change where Theon reemerges and stops Ramsay.
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Houston Lee
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In reply to Southlake • 4:43p, 5/18/15
AG
quote:
Theon is still standing behind a somewhat vulnerable Ramsay; the scene is not over yet...
Bingo.
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MW03
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4:46p, 5/18/15
AG
Presumably, the books will be caught up with the show at the end of this season. Let's further presume that Winds of Winter comes out before the new season starts.

At this point, would you read ahead again, or wait for the show?
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KidDoc
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4:46p, 5/18/15
AG
Read. Always read!
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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aggie93
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In reply to Houston Lee • 4:53p, 5/18/15
AG
quote:
quote:
Theon is still standing behind a somewhat vulnerable Ramsay; the scene is not over yet...
Bingo.
We have already seen Ramsay giving Sansa a kiss in the preview for next week so it's pretty safe that Theon just watches.
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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In reply to MW03 • 4:54p, 5/18/15
quote:
Presumably, the books will be caught up with the show at the end of this season. Let's further presume that Winds of Winter comes out before the new season starts.

At this point, would you read ahead again, or wait for the show?
At this point, half of the TV storyline has deviated so far from the books that it really doesn't matter. I'll be reading that book the day it comes out regardless of the season we are in.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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PatAg
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5:06p, 5/18/15
AG
Same
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to MW03 • 5:27p, 5/18/15
AG
quote:
Presumably, the books will be caught up with the show at the end of this season. Let's further presume that Winds of Winter comes out before the new season starts.

At this point, would you read ahead again, or wait for the show?
definitely read it. I still prefer the books. just so much depth in them of character and plot.
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LawAg05
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5:58p, 5/18/15
AG
Didn't expect theon to go all Case McCoy this episode.
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DTP02
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6:05p, 5/18/15
AG
You talking about Theon watching the Sansa rape or the sand snakes scene? Because the sand snakes trying to fight looked about like Case trying to football.
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aggie93
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In reply to DTP02 • 6:22p, 5/18/15
AG
quote:
You talking about Theon watching the Sansa rape or the sand snakes scene? Because the sand snakes trying to fight looked about like Case trying to football.
Sand Snakes were more David Ash to me.

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Fat Bib Fortuna
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11:52p, 5/18/15
AG
The real salt in the wound for me with Dorne is that they're doing that instead of the Pyke storyline with Victarion / Euron / Damphair or the Griff / Young Griff one.
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Furlock Bones
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11:56p, 5/18/15
AG
The sand snakes were freaking terrible. Just brutal.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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12:16a, 5/19/15
AG
I called the Sansa rape like 10 pages back. It was inevitable as soon as we found out there was no fake Arya. But it's alright though, because we needed it to happen so that Theon can begin getting rid of Reek.

So here's what I think happens based off this episode.

I believe Littlefinger's plan is to marry Sansa after taking the North. He wants to show up and vulture the remaining army, and then marry her to solidify his claim. If you think about it, it's pretty genius, marrying her off to Ramsay. There is no way he didn't know that Ramsay wasn't a sadistic POS. Now he gets to be the knight in shining armor, while allowing Sansa to grow up even more, so it's not creepy to show/book watchers.

Sandsnakes blew. In fairness though, I thought they pretty much blew in the book. The only interesting Dorne storyline I thought was quentyn, until that just turned into the ultimate handjob of a story. I really don't give a rats ass what happens in the show to them.

Arya's storyline is so far my second favorite this season believe we will start seeing some of her missions in the next episode, I just think they have too much ground to cover for it to be delayed any longer.

Tyron and Jorah are my number one favorite, all though it comes with the expense of Jon Connington not being in the show. Their dialogue is great. And the slaver that caught them, was that Sallador saan? Davos' pirate friend? And I agree, I think something happens that culminates at the fighting pits and they just cut out the Battle of Mereen, with Barristan gone, there is just no point.

Cerseis plot is fairly evident, even the show only dummies figured it out.

I still see Theon escaping with Sansa, and expect to not see much or any of the battle at winter fell until next season, as evidenced by the titles of the upcoming episodes, I think that the focus is on the wall and Mereen.

Any holes that anyone can see? I feel like this is the most logical.
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Ol Jock 99
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12:31a, 5/19/15
AG
http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-6-recap-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/

Grantland's review is good, as per usual.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 12:59a, 5/19/15
AG
quote:
http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-6-recap-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/

Grantland's review is good, as per usual.
yep he nailed it...they gonna need to start having these stories pay off....now.

yes it is the typical point when a season languishes a bit....4 more to go and each needs to deliver something in a pretty big way.
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hunter2012
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2:52a, 5/19/15
AG
So everyone is pissed off that the weak part of the books is getting weak seasons of the show? Especially considering the fact that the new storylines in the books are being entirely omitted.

Also go lurk on the show only thread, they mostly chalk Sansa up to typical GRRM sadism, even though the show writers are responsible for this. They are more upset by the sand snakes(as are everyone else).

Remember what Cersei told Sansa during the siege what her greatest weapon is. Although unpleasant Sansa is trying to play the game at least, though she is probably outmatched by Ramsey since he might intact be worse that Joffry. Hopefully Sansa will be drinking moon tea by the gallon.
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redline248
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 2:58a, 5/19/15
AG
Slaver was not Salador, it was Mr Eko from lost.

Difference bw Joff and Ramsay is Joff wasn't smart.

"It's bad luck to kill someone on your name day." Dumbass fell for that sort of thing all the time.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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7:07a, 5/19/15
AG
I think Arya will have some small jobs, not missions, until she sees Meryn Trant wandering around with Mace Tyrell and goes to fetch a certain needle to scratch a name off her list.

Can't see Theon getting out of Winterfell alive, what would be the point of him after helping Sansa escape? The show has proven it doesn't care about the Iron Islands - no Balon death, no kingsmoot, and Asha/Yara rows her boat 5,000 miles only to run away from a few dogs, despite the fact that she has a sword and is wearing armor.

Theon likely helps Sansa escape, perhaps in the battle to come, but I'm sure he goes down - which quite frankly would be a reward at this point for the poor guy. I always wondered while reading the books and now watching the show why Theon doesn't just figure out a way to kill himself.
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AggieHank86
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7:13a, 5/19/15
AG

I have spent four seasons wondering why Lady Olena's husband would have put up with her. I finally realized who she is:


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G Martin 87
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 8:38a, 5/19/15
AG
quote:
There is no way he didn't know that Ramsay wasn't a sadistic POS.

The showrunners and producers have denied this in interviews. Littlefinger truly is unaware of Ramsay's cruelty.
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Ol Jock 99
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8:47a, 5/19/15
AG
Ramsey was (until recently) the illegitimate son of the head of a (until recently) minor house in the far norther part of kindom. Why would LF know anything about him?

Not to mention LF said "It is funny; I've never heard of you" when they met.
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aggie93
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9:04a, 5/19/15
AG
I understand that is what they are saying gin the Show (that LF didn't know anything about Ramsay) but it makes absolutely no sense when you consider who we are talking about. LF is many things but reckless isn't one of them. He hedges his bets upon hedges and gets to know everything he can about those bets. To say that he would risk one of his most valuable chess pieces and probably the only thing he cares about on a marriage to a man he knows nothing about is completely out of character. He also has spies everywhere on his payroll. The Bolton's also weren't a "minor house", they were one of the most powerful Houses of the North and Roose's and their reputation as a House (that has a freaking flayed man on the sigil) isn't exactly a secret either.

It would actually make more sense that LF does know who Ramsay is and married Sansa to him as the final lesson in her training. This lesson being to completely destroy her soul and shatter any illusion she has left that life is just or good. It's a pretty sick and twisted line of thinking but I can buy that a lot more than "LF didn't know anything about Ramsay".
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rhutton125
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9:19a, 5/19/15
AG
quote:
So everyone is pissed off that the weak part of the books is getting weak seasons of the show? Especially considering the fact that the new storylines in the books are being entirely omitted.


THIS. I think, aside from the Sansa rape scene, most of the show changes have been alright. Some of them good, even.

Imagine, for instance, that you're from the TV-only crowd and this is what you got:

- Balon Swann heads to Dorne!
- Sam heads to the Citadel! and has a really awkward sex scene (...could still happen)
- MORE Mereen!!
- 5 new Dornish characters with a rebellion that ends as soon as it begins (pretty much what we got last night but at least it involved 2 characters we knew, in Jaime and Bronn)
- Jaime rides around the Riverlands, never meeting anyone of importance!
- Brienne rides around the country, never meeting anyone of importance!
- Cersei spends more time with the yes-men small council!
- Some vikings talk about invading, but never meet anyone of importance!
- Tyrion spends time with a bunch of new characters and then quickly gets separated from them
- Fake Arya, that girl nobody remembers from season 1!
- Sansa sits in the Eyrie!


Varys / Jorah instead of (new character) Griff makes a lot of sense. Ellaria Sand instead of (new characters) Arienne, Arys Oakheart, etc. makes a lot of sense. Not spending a lot of time on an uprising from a city we haven't seen in two years (Yunkai) makes a lot of sense, fiscally and for story, even if it cost us a book-favorite (Barristan). Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne makes a lot more sense than getting Balon Swann and Jaime in the Riverlands.

And so on.

I guess what I'm saying is that Books 4 and 5 don't have many events worth writing home about. The show writers have done their best to polish a turd, but you can only do so much.

Unfortunately... some of the ideas that made sense on paper (Jaime and Bronn fighting the Sand Snakes, Grey Worm getting ambushed and Barristan dying, Sansa marrying Ramsay) ended up being pretty poorly executed. The Unsullied look like pansies, the Sand Snakes look really underwhelming, Bronn and Jaime look like the Three Stooges, and Sansa seems to be moving backwards (marrying a monster, near-rape in season 2).

So yeah. This is the worst season. But how could it not be?
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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9:27a, 5/19/15
AG
Yeah, that's really hard to believe that LF wouldn't have heard about Ramsay. He seems like the guy who does research for 18 months before buying a new car. One of my favorite parts of the later books is when he and Sansa meet the Lords Declarant and afterwards he breaks down to Sansa exactly how he manipulated each one of them, and she figures out that Lyn Cobray was his ally - he's going to buy off one or two, one will probably die, one will oppose me, but his brother will probably murder him, etc.

I agree that he probably has some inkling of the kind of person Ramsay is, but is more focused on who/what Roose is - which specifically is - a man who has a long-term plan and isn't going to let his moron ******* eff it up by doing too much damage to the heir of Winterfell.

Littlefinger might not have ever gotten to marry Catelyn Stark like he hoped, but when you are his level of narcissist, a close second would be: Sleeping with Catelyn's sister, using Catelyn's sister to get Jon Arryn out of the way to start a Stark-Lannister war, then betraying Ned Stark to get him out of your way, making off with Catelyn's way better-looking daughter; marrying Catelyn's sister then seamlessly killing her to get control of the Eyrie, then making an alliance with the Stark's betrayers, then double-crossing them so you can become warden of the north, where the guy who nearly killed you in a duel over Catelyn was from, not to mention the guy who married Catelyn after that, and spend the rest of your days ruling from their keep in the North, and doing the wild thing with the aforementioned daughter in Ned and Catelyn's bed.

Littlefinger is doing work.

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OnlyForNow
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9:32a, 5/19/15
AG
When I read about the sand snakes I imagined, characters similar to who they cast but much better fighters, more like the chick from the Mummy or Mummy 2 that is the mummy's old lady.

Also agree with Yara running away from the dogs... really? It's just dogs, I thought they were supposed to be ironborn.

The Jamie and Bron to Dorne makes sense to me, as does Tyrion and Jorah, however I'm interested to see where Varys picks back up.
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In reply to rhutton125 • 9:32a, 5/19/15
The Dog Lord
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In reply to aggie93 • 9:56a, 5/19/15
AG
quote:
I understand that is what they are saying gin the Show (that LF didn't know anything about Ramsay) but it makes absolutely no sense when you consider who we are talking about. LF is many things but reckless isn't one of them. He hedges his bets upon hedges and gets to know everything he can about those bets. To say that he would risk one of his most valuable chess pieces and probably the only thing he cares about on a marriage to a man he knows nothing about is completely out of character. He also has spies everywhere on his payroll. The Bolton's also weren't a "minor house", they were one of the most powerful Houses of the North and Roose's and their reputation as a House (that has a freaking flayed man on the sigil) isn't exactly a secret either.

It would actually make more sense that LF does know who Ramsay is and married Sansa to him as the final lesson in her training. This lesson being to completely destroy her soul and shatter any illusion she has left that life is just or good. It's a pretty sick and twisted line of thinking but I can buy that a lot more than "LF didn't know anything about Ramsay".
This. In the books, haven't people heard rumors about Ramsay even in the south? It may have been little talked about or done in private because people fear Roose, but I feel like it was done all the same.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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10:27a, 5/19/15
AG
A bit of a disturbing interview with the guy who plays Ramsay - he never calls it rape, but he does say it was a terrible thing and obviously Ramsay is not gentle or generous.

http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/game-of-thrones-iwan-rheon-on-ramsay-sansa-wedding-night.html
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 10:40a, 5/19/15
AG
quote:
A bit of a disturbing interview with the guy who plays Ramsay - he never calls it rape, but he does say it was a terrible thing and obviously Ramsay is not gentle or generous.

http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/game-of-thrones-iwan-rheon-on-ramsay-sansa-wedding-night.html


I never thought about this, but could you imagine going out in public as him? He might be the most hated character in the history of television (it's probably a close race between him and Skylar White)

Regardless, he probably has the kinkiest chicks hit on him at bars.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 10:56a, 5/19/15
AG
quote:
quote:
A bit of a disturbing interview with the guy who plays Ramsay - he never calls it rape, but he does say it was a terrible thing and obviously Ramsay is not gentle or generous.

http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/game-of-thrones-iwan-rheon-on-ramsay-sansa-wedding-night.html


I never thought about this, but could you imagine going out in public as him? He might be the most hated character in the history of television (it's probably a close race between him and Skylar White)

Regardless, he probably has the kinkiest chicks hit on him at bars.
lol...yeah i mean the guy who played joffrey was pretty much vilified in public. part of why he got out of acting. i can't imagine being ramsay now. but jack gleeson (joffrey) was not enthrlalled with the celebrity life calling it dehumanizing and embarrassing. Iwan Rheon (Ramsay) seems to approach it all a little more from a humorous side and as a part to play.
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 10:58a, 5/19/15
AG
Ramsey has the benefit of age. The KID playing Joff was like 16 when his character was at his peak.
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The Debt
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In reply to G Martin 87 • 11:17a, 5/19/15
quote:
quote:
There is no way he didn't know that Ramsay wasn't a sadistic POS.

The showrunners and producers have denied this in interviews. Littlefinger truly is unaware of Ramsay's cruelty.

I wonder if Sansa thinks all young men are this, ramsay and joffrey were cruel and vile. Tyrion was called a monster and he was gentle and controlled. LF may kiss her, but I don't think he has treated her poor. He is a murderer and a dckbag, but she thinks he hung the moon I'm sure.
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