I think the books describe Tyrion as having both black and white hair as opposed to the gold of the Lannisters.

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Wow...looking into King Aerys, he had 7 legitimate kids with Queen Rhaella. The 5th one is Jaehaerys who was born a year after Tyrion. Jae's birth made the Mad King joyful and young again, but the child died in the same year spiraling him toward depression. After weeks of fasting and praying, he renounced mistresses.

Meaning he had many, why not Joanna?

I have always said Tywin hates Tyrion because of the lechery he sees Tyrion engage in. Tywin was cuckolded by Aerys, Aerys screwed as much as Robert lol (its good to be the King). Legally Tyrion is a Lannister, but Tywin would never let Tyrion be Lord of Casterly Rock. Why?! Its his only son and legal heir (if its his son). Why not? Tywin has always known/seen Aerys in Tyrion.

Its all there, you have to connect the dots.

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I hate to ruin all the fun, but would Tyrion be the only Targaryen in history who does not have eyes in some shade of purple and hair in some shade of silver/gold?

We need a copy of the Maester Malleon book "The Lineages and Histories of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms, With Descriptions of Many High Lords and Noble Ladies and Their Children."

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http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tyrion_Lannister

Pale blonde hair (mixed with black) on his head and beard. When I think "pale blond" I see Dany's silver. Tyrions eyes are also mismatched green and black. Maybe that black iris is really dark purple, but he has been called a monster by everyone and he scuttles about below the sconces and in brothels that no one really sees the color of that dark eye....

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Who is going to be around (that knows the truth) to tell either Jon or Tyrion of their 'true' parentage, if any of these theories are correct?

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Dragonriders man. Only Targaryens can do it...

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Who is going to be around (that knows the truth) to tell either Jon or Tyrion of their 'true' parentage, if any of these theories are correct?

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Dragonriders man. Only Targaryens can do it...

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We might find out pretty soon with Tyrion headed to Mereen, I guess.

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Wasn't Rhaegar killed by Robert at the trident before the sack of KL?

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Yep. Damnit.

So that presents the questions, why did he rename the tower if it wasnt his sex tower, or his re-marriage tower? Looking at it now, he never traveled into Dorne himself because he commanded the armies.

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I believe the story is that he did take Lyanna there with Arthur Dayne and Oswhell Whent. Gerold Hightower then came to tell him his father summoned him to lead the royal army, so he stayed in Rhaegar's place. Even though this all happens before Elia's death, he wouldn't necessarily be the first Targ to be married to more than one woman simultaneously (although he would be the first in a long time).

One thing I saw today was a description of Theon's dream of feasting with the dead Starks. He says Lyanna in a "white gown covered in blood." Now that could simply refer to a nightgown that she could have been wearing while giving birth. Does anyone recall whether a white dress is normal for weddings in Westeros though?

Either R+L = J or Aegon VI survived Robert's rebellion, or both. There are no other options. Ned's dream proves it. It is all about royal succession.

In Westeros, succession goes through the the eldest male child's line. So, let's work through the line after Aerys II was killed. Rhaegar is dead, so we pass over him. Westeros succession passes over females to get to males, so we pass over his daughter Rhaenys. We stop at Aegon, who was Aegon VI for less than a day before he was killed (let's assume for now Young Griff is not Aegon). After Aegon, the Rhaegar line is extinguished. So, we move to the next child after Rhaegar. That's a male (Viserys), so we can stop there.
After Aegon VI had his head crushed, every Targaryen supporter would agree that Viserys is the rightful king of Westeros, if it weren't for that pesky Usurper.

Every Targaryen supporter, except for the three most important. Why didn't Viserys have the support of the three surviving uncaptured Kingsguard, including the Lord Commander?

These are three men who knew the score and made the conscious decision to NOT follow Viserys to Dragonstone. As the story goes:

"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.""Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell."But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee.""Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm."We swore a vow," explained old Ser Gerold.

There can be only one explanation...seriously, only one explanation. Kingsguard should not be with Viserys, because he is not the King. Kingsguard do not flee when they are guarding the King. Therefore, the Tower of Joy contains the person the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard knows to be the rightful King. That can only mean the Tower of Joy contains a legitimate (non-*******) son or daughter of Rhaegar.

That could be Aegon VI or it could be Jon. If I were going to smuggle Aegon VI across the Narrow Sea, I'm not doing it out of Kings Landing. I'm getting him to the safest place possible in the short term; Dorne.

Also, it would be nothing for Rhaegar to take Lyanna as a second wife, so her child (jon) would be legitimate. He can work out the details when he gets back from killing the Usurper on the Trident.

It is also entirely possible that Aegon VI and Rhaegar's love child Jon were both in the Tower at the time. We know Ned doesn't murder children, so it is conceivable that he would take Aegon VI to Starfall and take Jon home. Without working through the details, it seems to me that Aegon VI going with Ned to Starfall solves a lot of the questions about nursemaids. Also explains how Ashara ends up as the Young Griff's septon.

So, to sum up, the rightful line is:

Aegon VI, if he is alive...and if not;
Jon Snow, if he is the legit child of R+L...and if not;
Daenerys Stormborn.

Those are your three dragonriders.

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There can be only one explanation...seriously, only one explanation. Kingsguard should not be with Viserys, because he is not the King. Kingsguard do not flee when they are guarding the King. Therefore, the Tower of Joy contains the person the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard knows to be the rightful King. That can only mean the Tower of Joy contains a legitimate (non-*******) son or daughter of Rhaegar.

That could be Aegon VI or it could be Jon. If I were going to smuggle Aegon VI across the Narrow Sea, I'm not doing it out of Kings Landing. I'm getting him to the safest place possible in the short term; Dorne.

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Well done. This seems quite plausible.

The only problem with your three dragonriders, Tom ford, is that "dragon" people do not follow succession lines. "Fire cannot harm a dragon". Viserys has more claim than Dany yet he wasn't "a dragon".

So, I'm sure I'm missing something, but if Tyrian isn't a targ because of his hair and eyes, then how is Jon?

Jon is half Stark regardless and that could explain his features.

Rhaegar could have taken Lyanna as a 2nd wife, very plausible.

The one man who knows more about Jon's parentage than anyone alive is Howland Reed who we have yet to meet, that is unless he is the High Sparrow.

Howland Reed may be the answer in the books, but I don't really expect to see him at all in the show - especially not now that more and more things are diverting in order to keep the character count down.

For example, how many TV viewers will remember Jojen and Meera by name a year from now? Jojen got unceremoniously blown up, and all he talked about was the boring-ass Three-Eyed Raven anyway. Meera is probably "that girl with Bran," who will have gone unseen for about 21 months.

For someone to come along and say "I'm Howland Reed, bffs of that guy who died 5 seasons ago, also you may remember my kids but probably not by their last name, also here's a bunch of game-changing Targaryen info," - that'd be a bit much to swallow.

I suppose it's possible for Reed to show up in the show - but I figure like most things, they'll roll his story or purpose into that of a character we've already seen. If there's an R+L=J reveal, I'd expect it from someone like Melisandre, or Bran, or maybe even Littlefinger.

Though I could be wrong - in about 5 episodes it will be anyone's guess.

Unless the High Sparrow is Howland Reed. Then they can preface the intro with a combo of the "previously on" segment and Littlefingers knowledge.

But most likely you are right and we won't see him in the show

Actually much of that is reason why Reed could be the High Sparrow. If he is the High Sparrow then he isn't a new character. While I agree that the Reeds have been de-emphasized I don't think it would be that difficult to tie them in at this point, they just need a dialogue heavy scene or two where someone talks about the past combined with a flashback in the "previously on GOT" similar to what they did with Robert and Ned last week.

If Reed is not the High Sparrow then I agree it is likely they will cut him in the show because they are unlikely to introduce many more new characters. If they never introduce Howland Reed in the books though honestly I am going to be pissed but it wouldn't make sense with Martin's writing style, there is just too much mystery around him and he is the connection point for too much of the plot for him never to surface.

Eh they could do it like they have been doing it with Rhaegar and Lyanna the last couple of episodes.

SouthTexas,

I like the way you think, funny our posts were 2 minutes apart!

Good points aggie93.

They could do an exposition-heavy scene, but usually that involves characters we already know: Catelyn being engaged to Ned Stark's brother who embarrassed Littlefinger, Rhaegar being Dany's brother and Barristan's friend and prince, Renly Baratheon being Brienne's idol and king, and victim to the machinations of Stannis and Melisandre who also appeared in this same episode, etc.

They could do it, for sure. If any character mentions Ned Stark's friend Howland Reed sometime in the next few episodes, I'd say the chances of him appearing or being exposition'd increase by about 60%. But until then, he seems to be purely a book character.

The High Sparrow is a pretty cool character so far though - I wouldn't mind tying him in to the greater scheme of things by revealing something about his past. I think they've already made him more interesting than he ever was in the books, though my memory may be off on that book subplot.

I really struggled with especially book 4, but also 5. Book 4 mainly because I was the idiot that didn't realize GRRM had split up the story lines, so the whole time I was waiting for a Jon or Dany story. But the biggest issue is that in every single one of the story lines it seems like they are not doing well. Jon has uprisings with his subjects Dany has uprisings with hers, Cersei has uprisings with hers. Stannis is freezing and starving to death. No one is happy in their position of power. The only people that seemed to be advancing their position in the book were maybe the Greyjoys, (minus Theon) Littlefinger, and the Boltons? But the Greyjoys who's POV we get isn't the one advancing into the game, and the others aren't POV characters. Maybe that is the nature of a heptology, you need a real low point at times, but I really hope we get to see the POV characters advancing their positions in the next book.

I'm starting to wonder if they will even mention in the show that Balon Greyjoy is dead, I know they are cutting most of the Iron Islands story out but they are acting now like they don't exist.

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I think the books describe Tyrion as having both black and white hair as opposed to the gold of the Lannisters.

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This is a quote from earlier when yall we discussion Targ hair color. Has anyone else noticed that in Season 1 of GoT, or at least episode 1, Peter Dinklage had some pretty brightly blonde hair? Nowadays that's the last way I'd describe it. It's more brown than blonde - even dirty blonde seems generous.

Just an observation

"For example, how many TV viewers will remember Jojen and Meera by name a year from now? Jojen got unceremoniously blown up, and all he talked about was the boring-ass Three-Eyed Raven anyway. Meera is probably "that girl with Bran," who will have gone unseen for about 21 months. "

That's the point of "previously on Game of Thrones" before the title sequence. They had a callback to Episode 1 this week. They will remind you what you need to know to follow along.

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I'm starting to wonder if they will even mention in the show that Balon Greyjoy is dead, I know they are cutting most of the Iron Islands story out but they are acting now like they don't exist.

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What about the leeches? In the book they make it a significant deal as proof of the Red Gods magic and favor. He names Robb, Joff, and Balon. HBO even did a "previously on GOTs" one of the wedding episodes.

Show isn't doing a great job of directing the storyline. Biggest mistake besides leaving out Nymeria and stoneheart, which adds so much intrigue, is the long gaps in certain storylines.

For instance they can be using Bran right now to fill in some back story, show above mentioned, or even stuff going on now. Instead we haven't seen him at all.

Haven't heard anything about Others to the point where it's so often talked that I wouldn't remember or carry interest if I hadn't read books.

let me guess

no Victorian ever

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let me guess

no Victorian ever

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I doubt we will see Victorian(s)



But we may still see Victarion.

oh hey thanks texags robot my bad

Dang, I love that picture of Victarion. Couldn't care less about no Stoneheart, and who says they can't have Nymeria show back up? Do a flashback to her being run off, then show her leading the pack of wolves savaging Lannister soldiers a couple of episodes before Faceless Arya pops back up in Westeros.

The problems with this season are the same problems as Books 4 and 5 - not enough happens. Numerous non-readers have commented on that to me - "man I don't know why I always get so excited for GoT, it always starts so slow," and "this season doesn't seem as good and we're almost halfway done." All I can do is nod and agree.

Seasons 3 and 4 had major deaths to spice things up - Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, the duel... the biggest death I can remember from books 4 and 5 is Rorge and Biter, and they're already dead. Woohoo

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The problems with this season are the same problems as Books 4 and 5 - not enough happens. Numerous non-readers have commented on that to me - "man I don't know why I always get so excited for GoT, it always starts so slow," and "this season doesn't seem as good and we're almost halfway done." All I can do is nod and agree.

Seasons 3 and 4 had major deaths to spice things up - Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, the duel... the biggest death I can remember from books 4 and 5 is Rorge and Biter, and they're already dead. Woohoo

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I don't disagree really, but last season (much like book 3) was also the best in the series so far. It's hard to maintain that level of wow, and there has to be more development before we have high notes comparable to it again. The previous seasons were in the middle of a war, so they also had a bit more carnage and served the purpose of eliminating several players (e.g. Renly). We also no longer have great characters such as the Hound, Tywin, Oberyn, and the villain everyone loves to hate, Joffrey. There's not always going to be deaths as big as Joffrey in the 3rd episode. The Red Wedding was episode 9 of its season after all. Overall, this is just a week point in the story with new characters, characters spread out over the entire world, etc. King's Landing is a snooze-fest, everyone is tired of Dany's attempt to rule Meereen, and Arya is sweeping floors. I assume this is why GRRM never intended to write this part of the story. Also, one of the most interesting new characters, Euron, isn't included (although we don't get his POV and the ironborn storyline isn't interesting to some).

This season has the potential to end on some high notes though. We could very well see a battle at Winterfell, Sansa get revenge on the Boltons, Jon Snow stabbed, Cersei walk naked in the streets (guaranteed), the High Sparrow reveal himself to be Howland Reed (doubtful), Arya murder someone again, even more fighting in Meereen culminating with only the third time a dragon has been used purposefully to kill, Tyrion/Jorah with Dany, Dany flying on Drogon (and possibly meeting the Dothraki again), etc. We could definitely use a little more Others too, and I hope they will be present at Hardhome. I'm not really expecting it though. I expect just another battle with the wildlings. Even the little bit of the Others we have gotten previously isn't really keeping them in the story well. The moment with the Night's King was only exciting because it was "new" info.

I would absolutely love to see an episode open or end with a couple of Frey or Lannisters going through the woods having a calm conversation. Then out of nowhere Nymeria jumps up and tears them apart. Then suddenly Arya wakes up in Braavos. They could essentially use Nymeria through Arya to do some of what Lady Stoneheart was doing, only in an even cooler way.

I was talking to some show watchers this week who also were sharing how much they thought the season was "meh" so far. The interesting thing to me was it was less about deaths as it was lack of badass moments and some of the sloppiness of the storylines even they can see with the adaptations from the books that they don't even know about. Little things would help like having Ghost around Jon more often. I think the lack of the Iron Islands storyline is that is where a lot of the badasses are for Book 4. The Kingsmoot would have been very cool to see. Euro and Victarion are really interesting characters though I could understand cutting Damphair. No Manderlay also means no Frey Pie. It doesn't even look like we are going to get Cersei going lesbian.

One other comment they made also is the show is suffering from a lack of a villain right now. No Joff and especially no Tywin. That's where a character like Euron would help, a cool but ruthless badass. The closest thing now is Ramsay Bolton but he's more of just a psycho that looks like he is going to get to bone Sansa and for all we know torture her which would go over like a lead balloon.

Who else is a villain? Not really one in Dorne, hard to root against Jaime/Bronn or any of the Martells. Not really one at The Wall now that Thorne and Jon have made up and Stannis and Mel aren't really bad guys, can't really root against the wildlings either. Maybe Cersei at KL but they are making her more of a sympathetic character as much as a villain so far and not nearly enough of the BSC Cersei from the books. They haven't really set up a true villain in Mereen and there isn't one in Braavos. So really it's just Ramsay and Roose I suppose and they just aren't that interesting. Even if Walder Frey gets back in the game he isn't interesting either.

Ttt

With all of the comments the past 2 weeks, they're either pushing Jon as a Targ hard or are trolling us big time.

Jorah has the greyscale!!!! wtf.....giving him the affliction of jon connington I guess.....I think they are going to avoid the "bloody flux" story line of ADWD and instead have Jorah bring greyscale to Meereen with him and that will be their plague instead. they've spent a lot of time lately on greyscale, it will be a more major factor than in the books i think. instead of introducing another disease thoughthey will just use greyscale.

And they flipped the script with Daenerys proposing to Zo Lorak....and sacrificed a random head of a family instead of Quentyn Martell who it seems they will not introduce

interesting changes.

plus having Sansa see Reek and all of that...obviously Ramsey played that...such an a-hole.