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I don't think they did the Battle for Winterfell justice.

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A group of tired, cold, hungry soldiers, whose leader just burned his kid, whose religious leader had abandoned them, half of whose comrades had deserted, and had no horse, walk out of the woods to try and stage a futile siege. Before they have time to unlace for a piss, a great, armored horse company rides them down.

What else would you have liked to see? Every bit of it made total sense given Stannis's unwillingness to waiver and the fact that the Bolton faction was fresh.

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so the net gain of killing his daughter was melting the ice, which didn't help at all with desertions.

Remind me how were Stannis and Melisandre able to create the vag ghost in season 2 to kill Renly and why couldn't they do it again to kill Roose Bolton? In season 2 it was the same scenario for stannis as his brother had the superior army.

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Mel clearly stated that creation of shadow babies drains the energy of the donor and that trying to make another would probably kill Stannis.

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Honestly, I thought this way until the Ned Stark execution in the first season. They didn't actually show his head getting chopped off, but instead showed basically what you saw with Stannis.

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Pretty sure we saw his head.

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Stannis is alive; they have already released chapters with him in them. Unless Melisandre is doing a glamour again.

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Martin has said the timelines aren't matched up. One of the chapters Stannis is in is before the pink letter would have been written.

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So as compared to the books:

Dany- similar - found by Dothraki, but we know they're friends in the book.

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Friends? How do you figure?

ETA: Looks like several beat me to this point.

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Dany- similar - found by Dothraki, but we know they're friends in the book

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As stated by another poster, they ain't her friend in the books. In fact, in the books isn't it her that finds them while flying on Drogon?

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No.

Dany is walking alone toward Mereeen, because she cannot convince Drogon to take her.

A single Dothraki scout approaches her, but does not see her. The scout rides away in terror as Drogon approaches on the wing.

Daenerys calls Drogon. He lands, and she mounts him.

Drogon catches and devours a horse.

While Drogon is dining, Khal Jhaqo (former ko of Khal Drogo) and a handful of his riders find them.

Remember that Jorah told her repeatedly that Jhaqo (et al) were no longer her friends. This is the very reason that they fled into the Red Waste. Dany is in a BAD situation.

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Dany- similar - found by Dothraki, but we know they're friends in the book

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As stated by another poster, they ain't her friend in the books. In fact, in the books isn't it her that finds them while flying on Drogon?

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No.

Dany is walking alone toward Mereeen, because she cannot convince Drogon to take her.

A single Dothraki scout approaches her, but does not see her. The scout rides away in terror as Drogon approaches.

Daenerys calls Drogon. He lands, and she mounts him.Drogon catches and devours a horse.

While Drogon is dining, Khal Jhaqo (former ko of Khal Drogo) and a handful of his riders find them.

Remember that Jorah told her repeatedly that Jhaqo (et al) were no longer her friends. This is the very reason that they fled into the Red Waste. Dany is in a BAD situation.

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summary:

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Daenerys is walking back south through the Dothraki Sea towards Meereen, following a small rivulet that she thinks will flow into the Skahazadhan. She has spent her time flying Drogon, but could not make him take her back.Instead, they have been staying at his lair, a small cave in a hill she named Dragonstone as a reference to the place where she was born.

She gets sick on the way, and has a number of hallucinations as she lies in the grass, bleeding and dying. These include a vision of Quaithe, of Viserys Targaryen, and of Jorah Mormont, and seem to revolve around the idea of forgetting who she is.

Finally, a single Dothraki scout approaches her, but does not see her. The scout freezes as Drogon approaches, and then flees. Daenerys calls out for Drogon as he flies over, and mounts him. Drogon catches and devours a horse, and Dany joins him. This is how Khal Jhaqo, former ko of Khal Drogo, accompanied by 50 of his warriors, finds her.

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Dany is in a BAD situation.

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BS, she's on a damn dragon.

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Dany is in a BAD situation.

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BS, she's on a damn dragon.

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actually she's not...she walked away from the dragon who was nowhere to be seen while a thousand horses surrounded her....

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Dany is in a BAD situation.

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BS, she's on a damn dragon.

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actually she's not...she walked away from the dragon who was nowhere to be seen while a thousand horses surrounded her....

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In the book?

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Dany is in a BAD situation.

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BS, she's on a damn dragon.

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actually she's not...she walked away from the dragon who was nowhere to be seen while a thousand horses surrounded her....

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In the book?

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sorry my bad. on the show. forgot which thread i was on....

Here's why I don't think Stannis was killed.

1. He became the 2nd most hated person on the show after 5.9
2. They showed his daughter burning to death, the whole thing, in 5.9 - why skip his death which the audience is basically salivating over?
3. They have showed just about everyone who died in 5.10 die in extravagant fashion
4. You see the sword downstroke, and you hear a "squish"
5. In the books, the pink letter indicates that Ramsay has Stannis

What could have stopped it?
1. Brienne sentences him to death, but perhaps she has a change of heart at the last second realizing he needs to stand trial? Or what right does a "Knight" have to sentence a King to death? I don't know - it's out of character for her to stop - but what makes sense in GoT anyways?
2. Poderick? Where is he?
3. Ramsay shows up and she stops midstroke realizing she is outnumbered and will not survive?
4. Jon Snow wargs into Ghost and tackles her (hahahahahahahaha)
5. Lady Stoneheart?
6. Stannis brings up his sword at the last second and the "squish" you hear is him stabbing Brienne?

I just don't believe Stannis is dead-dead until I see the headless body. There is a 10% chance he's still alive.

You've seem to forgot that he was in better shape in the book compared to the show. He DID pick up a few thousand northerners from the northern clans, as well as forged an alliance with part of house Umber. He was stuck in snow and starving, but the Boltons had Freys and Manderlys tying to kill each other, as well as their own dwindling supplies.

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Here's why I don't think Stannis was killed.

1. He became the 2nd most hated person on the show after 5.9
2. They showed his daughter burning to death, the whole thing, in 5.9 - why skip his death which the audience is basically salivating over?
3. They have showed just about everyone who died in 5.10 die in extravagant fashion
4. You see the sword downstroke, and you hear a "squish"
5. In the books, the pink letter indicates that Ramsay has Stannis

What could have stopped it?
1. Brienne sentences him to death, but perhaps she has a change of heart at the last second realizing he needs to stand trial? Or what right does a "Knight" have to sentence a King to death? I don't know - it's out of character for her to stop - but what makes sense in GoT anyways?
2. Poderick? Where is he?
3. Ramsay shows up and she stops midstroke realizing she is outnumbered and will not survive?
4. Jon Snow wargs into Ghost and tackles her (hahahahahahahaha)
5. Lady Stoneheart?
6. Stannis brings up his sword at the last second and the "squish" you hear is him stabbing Brienne?

I just don't believe Stannis is dead-dead until I see the headless body. There is a 10% chance he's still alive.

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It was a STYLISTIC shot...nothing more....the director/editor/someone....wanted to use the cool lillte "cut scene" (pun intended) from Brienne swinging the sword to Ramsay doing the same and killing someone.

Nothing more. the end result of both was the same - the person they were doing that to DIED.

and they've actually shied away from showing us several deaths explicitly:

Ned was not in focus when it happened, yes you saw the head later.

Technically shireen was not seen either - you saw flames before as she was standing there, but later they showed reactions of others, and it was off the central focus of the shot and just a bonfire of flames.

Now The Hound....there is a possibility (maybe the Brotherhood came upon him)...he was left for dead but not killed explicitly.

Actually both of the direwolves Grey Wind and Lady were not shown explicitly. With lady they showed a closeup of Ned, with Gray Wind he was shot in his cage outside the red wedding.


Here are the Directors words on why he did not show the finality of Stannis:

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I think there was a real sense of inevitability toward what was going to happen, and I think anything beyond that would have been somewhat gratuitous. I know for us to say that about "Game of Thrones," that's an interesting way to put it, but you could really get a sense that Stannis knew that his time had come, and there was nothing else really to say, nothing else really to do. I always believe that editing is the kind of thing where you want to cut into a scene a little bit after it starts and get out before it ends. This is exactly what we did in this sequence, and I thought it worked perfectly.

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Thought the second half of the season was much better than the first, even though they might as well have scrapped the entire Dorne storyline for all the good they did with it. Terrible Sand Snakes fight and acting. It says something when an unnecessary nude scene was the highlight for them. Doran looks like a powerless weakling that likes to make threats but never brings the hammer when his underlings constantly undermine his orders. Jaime and Bronn's plan made about as much sense as having a snow cone party at the Wall. Unless they showed a desire Jamie had to die, it sounded like the plan of an idiot or someone suicidal to attempt that rescue every step of the way. I also would've turned the ship around after Myrcella's death and slit Trystane's throat right in front of the Dornish for their betrayal. Makes no sense for her to get revenge by killing someone inconsequential to everyone except Jaime and Cersei while giving your enemy your sole heir. I would send Ellaria to Ramsay Bolton if I was Doran.

Liked all the stuff with Arya, Cersei, and Dany. Interested to see where they go with them. Hopefully Arya will start warging and become the Cat in the Canals. My heart was beating through the whole walk. I know it's fiction, and I know Cersei is a horrible character/person, but I couldn't help but feel nervous and sorry for her. The faith seems extremely hypocritical though in their judgments and punishments. Hope they get their due even if they are screwing with the Lannisters.

Liked Jon's 'final' scene but had a big issue with Sam forcing Jon's hand to go to Oldtown. Jon should've made that call. It makes him appear weak. Sam asks if he can go hide out on the southern end of the world to read books, learn about healing, and to bang his gf even tho nights watch and maesters both pledge celibacy. I know Jon broke his vows on that end too but it seemed weak to have Jon just say, "Okay, go ahead and take off. We're not trying to save the world or anything and you're the only one that knows how to run all the paperwork and letters we send out. Go take a vacation with your chick. Sure the guys will be happy I let the most hated Brother leave with a woman because he asked his friend Lord Commander."

I think they had Stannis burn Shireen in the show because they needed a better and more satisfying reason for his failure besides Melisandre misreading the signs. They needed a fatal mistake or flaw for him to earn his fate and keep another 'good guy' from being taken out by the bad guys, especially the Boltons. No one was shedding a tear. It was a tragic buildup. Stannis knew he was screwed. Mel looked like she **** herself when she realized half the army wasn't cool with her burning a child, and Stannis' dead eyed stare, knowing he is beat but marching forward anyway was a cool/hard way for a proud warrior to go.

Lastly, all I could think about during the Brienne/Stannis scene was Brienne saying, "I, Brienne of Tarth, sentence you to die with this sword, Oathkeeperrrrr oh ****! I knew there was something else I was supposed to do today." Have she ever kept an oath? Renly? Dead. Cat? Dead. Kingslayer? Had to save her to get back to Kings Landing. Stark girls? Let Arya get away, follows Sansa and bails the moment she finally has an opportunity to help for personal revenge. In terms of character sins and flaws, this could be the choice that costs Brienne her life down the road, especially if they really do bring in Stoneheart next season.

I think next season is the season of Bolton/Frey revenge. Direwolf dreams, Stonehearts, meat pies, and more. Maybe some Iron Islands and Riverrun where my favorite Jaime scene unfolds where instead of negotiating, he simply has a harp player play 'Rains of Castamere' for Edmure Tully as a warning if he doesn't yield the castle and Blackfish who will also hopefully return as well. Lot of good, few weird changes, but I'm pumped to find out what happens next.

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It was a tragic buildup. Stannis knew he was screwed. Mel looked like she **** herself when she realized half the army wasn't cool with her burning a child, and Stannis' dead eyed stare, knowing he is beat but marching forward anyway was a cool/hard way for a proud warrior to go.

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Honestly felt pretty crappy for Stannis in that moment, even after burning his daughter alive. I wasn't rooting for him anymore, but even still, after 4 seasons of seeing him do everything in his power to get the throne, and see him go out like that, it was tragic.

pretty good. but you are missing one important piece about Dorne. in Dorne, women can inheret the throne. so, the Lannisters killing Trystane puts one of the Sand Snakes in line I believe.

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the Lannisters killing Trystane puts one of the Sand Snakes in line I believe.

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The Sand Snakes are all besterds (sp). They cannot inherit, even in Dorne.

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I think they had Stannis burn Shireen in the show because they needed a better and more satisfying reason for his failure besides Melisandre misreading the signs. They needed a fatal mistake or flaw for him to earn his fate and keep another 'good guy' from being taken out by the bad guys, especially the Boltons. No one was shedding a tear. It was a tragic buildup. Stannis knew he was screwed. Mel looked like she **** herself when she realized half the army wasn't cool with her burning a child, and Stannis' dead eyed stare, knowing he is beat but marching forward anyway was a cool/hard way for a proud warrior to go.

Lastly, all I could think about during the Brienne/Stannis scene was Brienne saying, "I, Brienne of Tarth, sentence you to die with this sword, Oathkeeperrrrr oh ****! I knew there was something else I was supposed to do today." Have she ever kept an oath? Renly? Dead. Cat? Dead. Kingslayer? Had to save her to get back to Kings Landing. Stark girls? Let Arya get away, follows Sansa and bails the moment she finally has an opportunity to help for personal revenge. In terms of character sins and flaws, this could be the choice that costs Brienne her life down the road, especially if they really do bring in Stoneheart next season.

I think next season is the season of Bolton/Frey revenge. Direwolf dreams, Stonehearts, meat pies, and more. Maybe some Iron Islands and Riverrun where my favorite Jaime scene unfolds where instead of negotiating, he simply has a harp player play 'Rains of Castamere' for Edmure Tully as a warning if he doesn't yield the castle and Blackfish who will also hopefully return as well. Lot of good, few weird changes, but I'm pumped to find out what happens next.

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They only have two more seasons of the show and they are going to have to cover 2 rather large (I think it is safe to assume) books. If something from an existing book hasn't been brought up on the show by now, there is no way they are going to have time to bring it up on a later season. Honestly, I don't know how they are going to squeeze the last two books into 20 episodes as it stands now.

Yea I remember that. I doubt Prince Doran is going to be excited that his only true born son gets betrayed by his own blood and now only of his basturd nieces that already betrayed him is in line with the throne. Why wouldn't he execute them all. He doesn't give 3rd chances according to him.

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the Lannisters killing Trystane puts one of the Sand Snakes in line I believe.

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The Sand Snakes are all besterds (sp). They cannot inherit, even in Dorne.

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hmm, good point

Yeah, why would Jamie's ship even go back to KL at this point? Why not send a messenger to Doran that Myrcella was murdered by poison? And stick around to give evidence?

I agree. They were right there so why not turn the dang boat around?

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It's all just fodder though for keeping the chair warm for this guy though:

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Does he WANT a "warm chair?" Might melt his tuchus.


Forgive the Yiddish spelling of "tookus." If TexAgs did not censor every conceivable word for the posterior ....

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Except for the most obvious one... ass.

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Yeah they kinda botched the Winterfell invasion I think.

"Give us your wildlings!" "No." "Oh okay."
"20 men burned our siege equipment!" "Dang."
"Half our forces mutinied!" "Dang."

(At this point, what's going to happen with a small army and no siege equipment attacking walls?)

"The Boltons are approaching!" "Let's walk at them"

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take it back a couple steps. Why did Stannis choose to go North? What did he expect would happen? Did he expect the Northern houses to better resist the Boltons and flock to his banner? Did he really expect to create a wildling army? What a complete disaster.

If he had just bided his time in Dragonstone wouldn't he have had a decent shot at retaking KIngs landing after Tywin died?

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Davos Seaworth taught him that his thinking was all wrong. Stannis thought he had to win the throne to save the kingdom. Davos convinced him he had to save the kingdom to win the throne. The most imminent threat to the kingdom was the wildings descending on the wall. Plus Melisandre kept saying your true enemy was north, and stannis believed he was the one chosen to fight the real evil - the WW.

He thought the notherners would be more open to the guy who saved them from the wildings, and that Jon Snow would become Jon Stark and be a compliant Warden of the North once the Boltons had been routed out of Winterfell.

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ok. So it was a major miscalculation that the North would give a **** that he saved them from the wildling invasion. Also give the Boltons credit for swiftly taking over and consolidating power. Even if Jon Snow agrees to abandon the Night's Watch and accept the Stark name is it a given that they are able to take Winterfell? I don't think so. Would have been a much better fight though.

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But now Jon Snow/ Azor Ahai is freed from his oath to the nights watch and he's gonna take Tormund. Wun-Wun & Co. and beat him some Bolton butt

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I agree. They were right there so why not turn the dang boat around?

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Because Prince Dorne might kill them all and then say their boat was tragically lost at sea?

It would have been pure greatness had Stannis, after being informed of half his men deserting, had given the second bearer of bad news the palm, shook his head, and said "not until I get my coffee".

I think there's a chance Stannis is alive but the only conceivable reason would be Pod appearing at that moment and yelling 'it's lady Sansa" or something similar that distracted her enough not to finish the blow. And logically, it is unlikely; he was already badly wounded and she was on a downstroke. Personally, I think he's dead. But like the Hound, it was purposely left ambiguous for a reason - that reason most likely that they just want people to wonder.

I'm bummed. I had thought that Stannis would have a role to play in the fight against the Others.

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Except for the most obvious one... ass.

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WITCHCRAFT!!!!!!!!

I could see Brienne bringing Stannis to the Boltons as a way to get into Winterfell. It would also mean a flaying death for Stannis if Brienne was feeling particularly cruel. I still think he is dead though.

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I think they had Stannis burn Shireen in the show because they needed a better and more satisfying reason for his failure besides Melisandre misreading the signs. They needed a fatal mistake or flaw for him to earn his fate and keep another 'good guy' from being taken out by the bad guys, especially the Boltons. No one was shedding a tear. It was a tragic buildup. Stannis knew he was screwed. Mel looked like she **** herself when she realized half the army wasn't cool with her burning a child, and Stannis' dead eyed stare, knowing he is beat but marching forward anyway was a cool/hard way for a proud warrior to go.

Lastly, all I could think about during the Brienne/Stannis scene was Brienne saying, "I, Brienne of Tarth, sentence you to die with this sword, Oathkeeperrrrr oh ****! I knew there was something else I was supposed to do today." Have she ever kept an oath? Renly? Dead. Cat? Dead. Kingslayer? Had to save her to get back to Kings Landing. Stark girls? Let Arya get away, follows Sansa and bails the moment she finally has an opportunity to help for personal revenge. In terms of character sins and flaws, this could be the choice that costs Brienne her life down the road, especially if they really do bring in Stoneheart next season.

I think next season is the season of Bolton/Frey revenge. Direwolf dreams, Stonehearts, meat pies, and more. Maybe some Iron Islands and Riverrun where my favorite Jaime scene unfolds where instead of negotiating, he simply has a harp player play 'Rains of Castamere' for Edmure Tully as a warning if he doesn't yield the castle and Blackfish who will also hopefully return as well. Lot of good, few weird changes, but I'm pumped to find out what happens next.

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They only have two more seasons of the show and they are going to have to cover 2 rather large (I think it is safe to assume) books. If something from an existing book hasn't been brought up on the show by now, there is no way they are going to have time to bring it up on a later season. Honestly, I don't know how they are going to squeeze the last two books into 20 episodes as it stands now.

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They have never stated how many seasons the show will take, so no, they are not confined by just 2 more seasons, although I agree that introducing Stoneheart will not happen.

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I think they had Stannis burn Shireen in the show because they needed a better and more satisfying reason for his failure besides Melisandre misreading the signs. They needed a fatal mistake or flaw for him to earn his fate and keep another 'good guy' from being taken out by the bad guys, especially the Boltons. No one was shedding a tear. It was a tragic buildup. Stannis knew he was screwed. Mel looked like she **** herself when she realized half the army wasn't cool with her burning a child, and Stannis' dead eyed stare, knowing he is beat but marching forward anyway was a cool/hard way for a proud warrior to go.

Lastly, all I could think about during the Brienne/Stannis scene was Brienne saying, "I, Brienne of Tarth, sentence you to die with this sword, Oathkeeperrrrr oh ****! I knew there was something else I was supposed to do today." Have she ever kept an oath? Renly? Dead. Cat? Dead. Kingslayer? Had to save her to get back to Kings Landing. Stark girls? Let Arya get away, follows Sansa and bails the moment she finally has an opportunity to help for personal revenge. In terms of character sins and flaws, this could be the choice that costs Brienne her life down the road, especially if they really do bring in Stoneheart next season.

I think next season is the season of Bolton/Frey revenge. Direwolf dreams, Stonehearts, meat pies, and more. Maybe some Iron Islands and Riverrun where my favorite Jaime scene unfolds where instead of negotiating, he simply has a harp player play 'Rains of Castamere' for Edmure Tully as a warning if he doesn't yield the castle and Blackfish who will also hopefully return as well. Lot of good, few weird changes, but I'm pumped to find out what happens next.

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They only have two more seasons of the show and they are going to have to cover 2 rather large (I think it is safe to assume) books. If something from an existing book hasn't been brought up on the show by now, there is no way they are going to have time to bring it up on a later season. Honestly, I don't know how they are going to squeeze the last two books into 20 episodes as it stands now.

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they've fit essentially 5 books (some storylines behind, some ahead) into 5 seasons, so why wouldn't they be able to finish the final 2 books into 2 seasons?

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I think they had Stannis burn Shireen in the show because they needed a better and more satisfying reason for his failure besides Melisandre misreading the signs. They needed a fatal mistake or flaw for him to earn his fate and keep another 'good guy' from being taken out by the bad guys, especially the Boltons. No one was shedding a tear. It was a tragic buildup. Stannis knew he was screwed. Mel looked like she **** herself when she realized half the army wasn't cool with her burning a child, and Stannis' dead eyed stare, knowing he is beat but marching forward anyway was a cool/hard way for a proud warrior to go.

Lastly, all I could think about during the Brienne/Stannis scene was Brienne saying, "I, Brienne of Tarth, sentence you to die with this sword, Oathkeeperrrrr oh ****! I knew there was something else I was supposed to do today." Have she ever kept an oath? Renly? Dead. Cat? Dead. Kingslayer? Had to save her to get back to Kings Landing. Stark girls? Let Arya get away, follows Sansa and bails the moment she finally has an opportunity to help for personal revenge. In terms of character sins and flaws, this could be the choice that costs Brienne her life down the road, especially if they really do bring in Stoneheart next season.

I think next season is the season of Bolton/Frey revenge. Direwolf dreams, Stonehearts, meat pies, and more. Maybe some Iron Islands and Riverrun where my favorite Jaime scene unfolds where instead of negotiating, he simply has a harp player play 'Rains of Castamere' for Edmure Tully as a warning if he doesn't yield the castle and Blackfish who will also hopefully return as well. Lot of good, few weird changes, but I'm pumped to find out what happens next.

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They only have two more seasons of the show and they are going to have to cover 2 rather large (I think it is safe to assume) books. If something from an existing book hasn't been brought up on the show by now, there is no way they are going to have time to bring it up on a later season. Honestly, I don't know how they are going to squeeze the last two books into 20 episodes as it stands now.

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They have never stated how many seasons the show will take, so no, they are not confined by just 2 more seasons, although I agree that introducing Stoneheart will not happen.

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They have never stated emphatically and definitively that 7 is it for sure...but they have repeatedly said they think 7 is ideal..although the idea of a split/protracted 7th season is also out there.


you can find many articles for D&D state that they want 7. HBO would be fine with 8...maybe even more but they are kinda beholden to D&D if they want only 7...they aren't gonna hand the series over to someone else after 7 especially if they basically conclude it in 7.

here is just one such article:

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons


and of course the cast is signed through 6 seasons with an option for a 7th.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-cast-signs-season-744314

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Honestly, I thought this way until the Ned Stark execution in the first season. They didn't actually show his head getting chopped off, but instead showed basically what you saw with Stannis.

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Pretty sure we saw his head.

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Correct. We saw the head....in the next episode. I was just saying that we shouldn't be fooled into overthinking what a given camera angle did or did not show at the time.

Unfortunately we have to wait until next season to see the head of Stannis mounted on a pike, so all these crazy rumors will fester and persist for far longer than they should.