This is universal. You wouldn't believe how pissed off people get in animal cruelty cases. They are usually ready to string them up once they hear name the charge, yet people barely flinch at a Murder charge.

I have always suspected the changes the Unsullied raising then killing puppies to killing babies because it would be more palatable to most people. People in this country are desensitized to violence against humans on tv compares to abuse of animals on tv. That's just my opinion .

I can see getting upset about it, but MORE upset about that horse than Shireen? Wtf?

Its like he says in the social network, it's better to be accused of necrophilia than animal abuse.

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I can see getting upset about it, but MORE upset about that horse than Shireen? Wtf?

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its all fake. I mean I was shocked by it (Shireen) but I wasn't upset by it. Its just a story. Its not like the actor was actually harmed.

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I can see getting upset about it, but MORE upset about that horse than Shireen? Wtf?

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its all fake. I mean I was shocked by it (Shireen) but I wasn't upset by it. Its just a story. Its not like the actor was actually harmed.

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Exactly where I am. Some of this reaction (Sansa rape, Shireen) has me thinking of the Bloginati need to take a step back.

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I can see getting upset about it, but MORE upset about that horse than Shireen? Wtf?

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its all fake. I mean I was shocked by it (Shireen) but I wasn't upset by it. Its just a story. Its not like the actor was actually harmed.

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This is part of why it didn't bother me that much. I've also heard more convincing "blood-curdling" screams that would make me turn away from a scene before. Honestly, the most "shocked" by something I've seen on GoT is when the Mountain sliced his horse's head off.

The Sansa "rape" scene bothered me just because I'm so tired of that particular character having terrible, humiliating things done to her by sadists.

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Not to derail the thread again with was it rape or not, but it would have been interesting to see how they would have reacted if they had stuck to the scene as it was in the book and had Theon warm her up. Would anyone be losing sleep over the fact that technically Theon was being raped too? And he was forced to have sex with what was, for all intents and purposes, his sister?

Also the most shocking thing time was Oberyn's head being popped like a grape. I hadn't read that far in the books. It's one of the only times that I've shouted at my tv, besides when I watch sports.

i find peoples outrage hysterical......it's FICTION and TV.....

my biggest concern is for any actual animals...realizing most of the time it's CGI......and i'm not a bleeding heart PETA or anything. just every now and then i think "oh that poor horse" or whatevr.

I actually LOL quite often at stuff and think "man i can't wait to see how people lose their minds over that".....as a book reader of course nothing we have seen has shocked me even if it was different.

of course I am the type that laughs maniacally in horror films...it gives me a weird adrenaline rush and I get giddy almost.....it's NOT REAL....and when it's well done I appreciate it. Favorite author (besides GRRM) is Stephen King.

Damn, I forgot about Oberyn

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good point. Probably the last decent thing Stannis would do was to send Davos to the Wall knowing what was coming and sure, the letter could say anything.

Such as: Lord Davos, enclosed you will find a round trip ticket aboard the luxurious Bravossi galley Titan's Paramour. That's right Onion Knight, you've earned it. I'm sending you on an all expense paid tour of the Free Cities with two female companions trained in the pleasure houses of Myr. So fuel up at the Wall and get yourself down to Duskendale in a fortnight to catch your ship. You need some time off. Look me up in the spring. If I'm not dead or a wight, I'll have a cushy Master of Ships post open for you. Your bestie, Stannis.

PS. We intercepted a raven from the Dreadfort bound for Winterfell. It appears that that Ramsey Bolton is going to start a malicious rumor that I allowed Mel to sacrifice my daughter to the red god so this f'ing snow would stop falling a couple of days. Granted, that would be great, but it's bullsh**. I mean you know Mel, she does some pretty twisted sh** but we have standards. Alright, enough of my problems, go party your dick off in Volantis and keep in touch. Peace out.

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I think you mean Lys. It's like you know nothing about the books. /texags

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I always find it funny when people get upset about animals dying in tv or film. Is it bc we don't eat horses or dogs? No problem with some chickens or cows being killed?

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No its bc animals are without fault and are usually defenseless. I don't have kids...Shireen's scene didn't get to me like those did.

Remember, Camelot really was just a model...

That's disappointing. I guess they really want to get this thing wrapped up in 7 seasons. Can't figure out why they didn't try to get two seasons out of those books and give GRRM a little more time. They have a mega successful, globally watched show, so 10 seasons wouldn't be the worst thing.

(Although to be fair, I don't think anyone could've taken another season of Dany "ruling" Mereen.)

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I don't understand how they got two seasons out of book 3, and somehow covered books 4 and 5 in a single season.

Edit: If you explain this to me, please do it on the other thread. I'm curious to hear about this.

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Because the story was originally intended as a trilogy. I'm sure others will have a different take, but imo GRRM just wrote himself into a corner trying to expand the story. Books 4/5 (especially 4) don't have much substance. He just keeps bringing in minor characters whose arcs don't seem to go anywhere.

There was a major discussion among the book readers about how they were going to be able to use the material from 4/5 at all because it is so long and boring without any major plot movement (at least compared to the other books). The answer for D&D was to merge a bunch of characters, cut others completely, and create a few new storylines. Given what they had to work with, I think they did a pretty good job. Although a few of the recent changes haven't been well thought out, but the show appears to be a victim of its own success in that regard.

I don't have a visceral reaction when I see a child actor die on screen. I don't know why, but I suspect that it's because I don't have children, so it's easier for me to compartmentalize it as part of the fiction on the show. On the other hand, when an animal dies that's important to the story (as opposed to a random animal like the horse that was on fire) I actually do have an emotional response that is more difficult to compartmentalize.

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By eliminating a TON of characters, material and plots

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90%+ are completely irrelevant and frankly boring.

Books 1-3: varying degrees of greatness.
Books 4-5: great slogging mess

YMMV of course.

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It's hard to say which of the stories are pointless right now, b/c who knows what Martin has in store. Definitely some boring stuff, though.

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By eliminating a TON of characters, material and plots

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90%+ are completely irrelevant and frankly boring.

Books 1-3: varying degrees of greatness.
Books 4-5: great slogging mess

YMMV of course.

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Agree completely. It was a bit of a chore to get through 4 and 5 but book 3 was by far the best of the bunch for me.

Thanks. How he could've written two enormous books without much happening is pretty hard to believe.

On another note, if Stannis does end up sacrificing Shireen in the books, will you be "ok" with how it was done in the show? If he doesn't, does it bother you that it was done differently?

Honestly I was never a "Stannis the Mannis" guy, but I wonder if people that were, now feel differently because of the show or now see the book and tv versions as different entities.

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That's disappointing. I guess they really want to get this thing wrapped up in 7 seasons. Can't figure out why they didn't try to get two seasons out of those books and give GRRM a little more time. They have a mega successful, globally watched show, so 10 seasons wouldn't be the worst thing.

(Although to be fair, I don't think anyone could've taken another season of Dany "ruling" Mereen.)

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If you haven't read the books, so you may not know that books 4 and 5 happen concurrently. That's the other reason it's one season. While it's 2 books, it's one temporal story.

For example, Tyrion kills Tywin near the end of Book 3, and he doesn't resurface until the beginning of Book 5. Same thing with Dany. The last we see of her is banishing Jorah in Book 3, and we don't see her again until Book 5 when they're asking her to re-open the fighting pits.

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On another note, if Stannis does end up sacrificing Shireen in the books, will you be "ok" with how it was done in the show? If he doesn't, does it bother you that it was done differently?

Honestly I was never a "Stannis the Mannis" guy, but I wonder if people that were, now feel differently because of the show or now see the book and tv versions as different entities.

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At this point, the show and books are different versions of the same story.

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By eliminating a TON of characters, material and plots

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90%+ are completely irrelevant and frankly boring.

Books 1-3: varying degrees of greatness.
Books 4-5: great slogging mess

YMMV of course.

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It's hard to say which of the stories are pointless right now, b/c who knows what Martin has in store. Definitely some boring stuff, though.

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I am starting to see anything that isn't world ending as kind of pointless. Brienne and Pod, Jaime in the Riverlands, Aegon and Connington, etc.

The AA vs Others, Bran turning into a super voyeur, Dragons out of control in the East. These are stories that are keeping me in the series.

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Thanks. How he could've written two enormous books without much happening is pretty hard to believe.

On another note, if Stannis does end up sacrificing Shireen in the books, will you be "ok" with how it was done in the show? If he doesn't, does it bother you that it was done differently?

Honestly I was never a "Stannis the Mannis" guy, but I wonder if people that were, now feel differently because of the show or now see the book and tv versions as different entities.

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I think I'm one of the few that doesn't find it out of character for Stannis to have burned Shireen if it was what he felt he had to do to be successful in sacking Winterfell. This guy was probably only slightly less conflicted about eating stolen/smuggled onions during the siege of Dragonstone as he was about burning his daughter.

Stretching things out is a bad idea unless totally necessary. I think people catch on to that easily. Think about how little anyone cared about the Three-Eyed Raven / Bran, or anything to do with Stannis for all of season 3 and most of season 4. He just sat around moping, and Bran just moved an inch a day past the wall. Even the added capture episode couldn't spice Bran's story up enough to matter.

Another argument against spreading books 4 and 5 out - even when combining and condensing the stories, it's been considered by many to be a drop in quality. Ratings and Metacritic rating have dropped from last season. Drag things out even longer (especially Daenerys' story, Brienne's, Dorne, etc.) and people could bail.

Regarding animal vs. people violence, I think it's just shock value. It seems like almost every non-comedy movie or TV show has a person getting killed. Even news stories report on things. Gotta spice it up somehow. That's why you occasionally get a shocking story about a man killing puppies, or a child, or serial killer shows and things. "Man gets shot," "man dies in explosion"... that's old news.

Think even within the realm of Game of Thrones - soldiers and townspeople die nearly every week. But what are some of the most memorable deaths? A public beheading, a pregnant woman being stabbed repeatedly in the gut, a man having his eyes gouged out, a wolf ripping out a throat, people being burned alive by dragons. A now a child being burned at the stake.

Occasionally you get some animal cruelty, too, just to spice things up.

I mean... I've seen Battle Royale, the Raid, Kill Bill... gruesome deaths are a dime a dozen in 2015. You either have to go over the top (eye gouge) or outside the box (kill a kitten or decapitate a horse) to get people talking.

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On another note, if Stannis does end up sacrificing Shireen in the books, will you be "ok" with how it was done in the show? If he doesn't, does it bother you that it was done differently?

Honestly I was never a "Stannis the Mannis" guy, but I wonder if people that were, now feel differently because of the show or now see the book and tv versions as different entities.

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If Stannis does consent to or actually sacrifice her, then I guess. As comfortable as you can be with the worst thing imaginable.

If the sacrifice is done without his knowledge (this is my guess), then yes it bothers me because they destroyed Stannis as a character. They turned him into another pure evil, power hungry king. The books just don't support this version of him. Here are some quotes to illustrate my point:

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"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother."
-Stannis, ASOS

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"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."
The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead "
" you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."

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That's disappointing. I guess they really want to get this thing wrapped up in 7 seasons. Can't figure out why they didn't try to get two seasons out of those books and give GRRM a little more time. They have a mega successful, globally watched show, so 10 seasons wouldn't be the worst thing.

(Although to be fair, I don't think anyone could've taken another season of Dany "ruling" Mereen.)

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I think the main motivation is the primary actors are signed for 7 Seasons and if they went to 8 they risk losing a major actor or having to pay the cast an insane salary.

Sunday is going to be insane...


















(courtesy bumper for our non-reading friend in case he wants to save himself)


















(still here? okay then...)












































(end courtesy bumper for Spilner)

I'm guessing that last shot of John is after he gets stabbed by.......

Great cut of scenes, and initially good music too.


But then the flute joined in and it got really corny.