Yeah but you're still of the mindset that the good guy has to win. Why? I could honestly see GRRM finishing with a terrible person winning it all. He doesn't follow convention.

I mean he could have a "good guy" win as well, but I don't think that is a lock at all.

Honestly...how anyone could back Stannis after Mel squeezed out a shadow demon assassin is beyond me. There's magic, and then there's some dark ass magic. You might as well hope the others win.

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did ya'll catch the necklace Dany was wearing?.

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One thing we've learned this season is that Westrosi fighters suck. Jorah got his ass kicked, just like Ser Barriston.

I hope the red Lady got some really strong magic from Shireen, because it seems to me like Davos would have to leave Stannis now. Half his men would probably leave him too if this wasnt tv. Burning your own kid isn't going to inspire a whole lot of loyalty along his men.

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Well I figured Shireen would get burned but in a way that would raise Jon Snow from the dead. This is not good.

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Stannis' men I can't really see abandoning him for shireen. The greyscale made her an outsider and freak to all but Davos really. Now in the books, the northmen would absolutely not stand for the sacrifice of a child like that

She got 8k. I only seen like fifty keeled

Where the F are they?

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Does it seem to anyone else that Dany basically has no Unsullied left?

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She started with about 9000, plus unblooded replacements. We have seen a few dozen die. She is probably OK.

Well, i hate to say it, but I'm rooting for Boltons to put a hurting on Stannis now.

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Yeah but you're still of the mindset that the good guy has to win. Why? I could honestly see GRRM finishing with a terrible person winning it all. He doesn't follow convention.

I mean he could have a "good guy" win as well, but I don't think that is a lock at all.

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Honestly, after the next two books, I'm guessing whoever "wins" the Iron Throne is of secondary importance.

This story has always been about the Others.

Bingo! Dany and Drogon should have been a huge payoff.

Damn, that was hard to watch. I always had a bad feeling about Shireen but had hoped that in the end Stannis wouldn't be willing to kill his child to save himself. A usurping brother is one thing, your own little girl is another. I agree that after this Davos is done with Stannis, and will be curious to see what causes his to transition to trying to find Rickon on the show (assuming that plot will make it to the screen).

Watching Drogon bring it was fun. Glad they cut away before the remaining Harpies slaughtered the rest of the gang while they stood there watching Dany fly off. .

Ser Meryn pedo is a show addition but makes it a super-easy way for Arya to get to him tomorrow, ie a logical plot addition. Of course, at the point I wouldn't be totally surprised if D&D had Meryn actually rape Arya before she kills him. They rapin everybody up in here.

Curious what Ellaria's angle is with Jaime. I seriously doubt she just woke up and decided to be BFFs with him cause Doran yelled at her. I find pretty much the entire Dorne subplot to be about as interesting as watching paint dry in slow motion but at some point Doran should be making a move to show that he's been aligned with the Targaryans all along. Or at least something to explain why the hell he made the show this season when the biggest boss of all, Lord Wyman Manderly, was left out.

Yep, the Dorne stuff is making no sense. Good scene with Bronn getting elbowed, though.

Even if this wasn't a show, Stannis' men wouldn't mutiny as long as it worked. They made a point to show that they were all dying. Most of them probably thought it was ****ed up, but were hoping it would work. Once it does, they'd just be even more true believers.

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Does it seem to anyone else that Dany basically has no Unsullied left?

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And they don't know how to set up a defensive peremeter, beyond "hey let's spread out so far that our training for fighting in formation is completely useless."

What exactly ARE they good at?

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Taking and sacking cities, not defending a population from each other.

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Well I figured Shireen would get burned but in a way that would raise Jon Snow from the dead. This is not good.

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In addition to being extremely unsettling.......my hopes for Jon Snow being raised from the dead just took a huge blow.

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The leaches didn't work right away either. Heck in the show Balon Greyjoy is still alive. I could easily see Stannis falling in battle, Mel doing the resurrection prayer and Jon waking up.

Of course I could also see GRRM killing off Jon and the eventual winner being a Tarley so who the heck knows.

If that's all a dragon has, Dany is in trouble. Would have thought the dragon scales were impenetrable and I would have thought one burst of dragon fire could have melted every Harpy in the ring.

Should be calling that dragon, Puffy

Something else that I was thinking about this week, while waiting to see if Jon would get attacked and how it might play out, is that the show (and the books too, for that matter, although to a lesser extent) has a real problem if Jon is dead for real. That problem is that they will have killed off too many interesting characters that the viewers enjoy watching. Good guys like Ned, Robb, Oberon, Mormont, Selmy and Cat, bad guys like Joffrey, fun to watch bad guys like Tywin and the Hound* and Drogo and probably half a dozen others I can't think of. My point is, lose too many core characters that people care about and they stop wanting to watch. Jon's death, for reals, would seem less like a valid plot direction and more like just a giant FU to the viewers.

And honestly, it would be. Jon has been built up as an important character. His background and history have been woven through the entire tale. In the books, Neds POVs made it abundantly clear that there were important things Jon needed to hear. We've been privy to his POVs and thoughts for years, and know that he's one of the few people in Westeros that understands the threat that the Others bring, and he should have an important role to play in that fight. Clues have been laid that show just how unique he might be to fight them. Killing him now means that a big chunk of the past 5 books was a waste of time.

I hear people grumble on other boards about "plot armor" and how Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya etc are immune from being killed because they have it. But honestly, plot armor is just another way to describe solid storytelling, where the bones of the story are laid out in advance and the tale builds on itself in a logical, continuous way. I have no doubt that when the sun sets on ASOIAF, most of our "heroes" will be dead. But the groundwork has been laid for their deaths to matter. Killing them off now, just to prove that no one is safe, is cheap, and I will honestly be really surprised if it happens.

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Something else that I was thinking about this week, while waiting to see if Jon would get attacked and how it might play out, is that the show (and the books too, for that matter, although to a lesser extent) has a real problem if Jon is dead for real. That problem is that they will have killed off too many interesting characters that the viewers enjoy watching. Good guys like Ned, Robb, Oberon, Mormont, Selmy and Cat, bad guys like Joffrey, fun to watch bad guys like Tywin and the Hound* and Drogo and probably half a dozen others I can't think of. My point is, lose too many core characters that people care about and they stop wanting to watch. Jon's death, for reals, would seem less like a valid plot direction and more like just a giant FU to the viewers.

And honestly, it would be. Jon has been built up as an important character. His background and history have been woven through the entire tale. In the books, Neds POVs made it abundantly clear that there were important things Jon needed to hear. We've been privy to his POVs and thoughts for years, and know that he's one of the few people in Westeros that understands the threat that the Others bring, and he should have an important role to play in that fight. Clues have been laid that show just how unique he might be to fight them. Killing him now means that a big chunk of the past 5 books was a waste of time.

I hear people grumble on other boards about "plot armor" and how Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya etc are immune from being killed because they have it. But honestly, plot armor is just another way to describe solid storytelling, where the bones of the story are laid out in advance and the tale builds on itself in a logical, continuous way. I have no doubt that when the sun sets on ASOIAF, most of our "heroes" will be dead. But the groundwork has been laid for their deaths to matter. Killing them off now, just to prove that no one is safe, is cheap, and I will honestly be really surprised if it happens.

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I think they're running a risk of losing a lot of viewers if they kill Jon and leave as him being dead until season six. I almost wonder if they are going to wait until season six to kill him now. I think the letter Stannis sent will be what spurs Jon to march on Winterfell and lead to his assassination. I almost wonder if the letter says something similar to what we read in the book and not what he told Davos it said. Or maybe just the act of provisioning Stannis's army is enough to lead the brothers to kill him?

For the reasons you have outlines, plus the foreshadowing in the beginning of book five, make me 99% certain Jon will die and return to life somehow.

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I just see no way Jon dies. Of the central characters, all of them have had a "death" happen to them, whether we bought it or not, or if it lasted a chapter or 10.

Dany - walking into Drogo's pyre
Tyrion - First battle he was in with the mountain men after escaping the Eyrie, wasn't he crushed or something?
Bran - Theon killing/burning those boys
Arya - the hound whacking her with the axe

Now Jon - stabbed by his men.

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Oh, I think he's going to die alright. In the books he is, at least. Show might not have him die since they haven't set up the warging very well with him.

^
I can see where you're going...

Jon Snow, at the last moment, Warg's into Ghost. He seeks out and finds Sansa in the Eyrie (book timeline). Arya "No one" returns to the North and kills Ramsay. Jon Snow/Ghost seeks out Nymeria, defeats her, mates with her, and brings her and her wolfpack to Arya and who he reunites with Sansa - kind like the movie Frozen.

They take Stannis' army, the wildlings, and the wolfpack south first, to destroy the Lannisters. But then have to come back North through a recently-landed Daenerys Targaryen - now humping Victarion - fleet of iron-born ships.

Bran wargs a dragon and gives it over to Jon Snow/Ghost who becomes the first Dragon-Riding Wolf. SnowGhost takes the dragon north to slaughter others. Then returns south to bail out Arya (Sansa died). They defeat the Targ witch, and retake the Iron throne. Now "no one" sits on the Iron Throne with her trusty wolf dragon-rider at her side.

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If that's all a dragon has, Dany is in trouble. Would have thought the dragon scales were impenetrable and I would have thought one burst of dragon fire could have melted every Harpy in the ring.

Should be calling that dragon, Puffy

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I'm assuming you're a non-bookreader

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^
I can see where you're going...

Jon Snow, at the last moment, Warg's into Ghost. He seeks out and finds Sansa in the Eyrie (book timeline). Arya "No one" returns to the North and kills Ramsay. Jon Snow/Ghost seeks out Nymeria, defeats her, mates with her, and brings her and her wolfpack to Arya and who he reunites with Sansa - kind like the movie Frozen.

They take Stannis' army, the wildlings, and the wolfpack south first, to destroy the Lannisters. But then have to come back North through a recently-landed Daenerys Targaryen - now humping Victarion - fleet of iron-born ships.

Bran wargs a dragon and gives it over to Jon Snow/Ghost who becomes the first Dragon-Riding Wolf. SnowGhost takes the dragon north to slaughter others. Then returns south to bail out Arya (Sansa died). They defeat the Targ witch, and retake the Iron throne. Now "no one" sits on the Iron Throne with her trusty wolf dragon-rider at her side.

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I'M IN!