Her hair all burned off but she was unhurt. I think it has more to do with being "the dragon" than being a Targ.
**Official Game of Thrones: Season 5 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)**
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Last: 8 yr ago by Al Bula
Fire can't hurt SOME Trags, it'll kill others. But yes, Reagar, Viscerys, and Dany are all 100% Targs born of incest I believe or close to it.
He is going to die, literally be 100% stone cold dead after the stabbing incident at Castle Black; when they burn him for his funeral he comes back changed.
He is going to die, literally be 100% stone cold dead after the stabbing incident at Castle Black; when they burn him for his funeral he comes back changed.
Will be some crazy shtt when it happens
Sorry, I didn't mean hurt during the dragons being born bit, I meant some time after I thought she had put her hand in a candle or fire or something and getting burnt. Like I said thought I'm not 100% certain.
quote:I don't disagree with either your point or the previous point. In fact, I agree in this regard: her downfall will be as a result of her failure to see the big picture.quote:quote:Agree. Part of the Cersei's story is how she mishandles everything.
Did anyone else find Cersei's motivation for reestablishing the Faith Militant as unconvincing? They had just finished discussing the crippling debt that the realm is under, then it looks like she just flippantly arms the radicals out of boredom and to spite Margaery. These are the variances from the book that annoy me, when they set themselves up where it makes sense to follow the books, then they do something that makes even less sense without really helping to condense the story.
Cersei is good at executing "the next move". She always fails to see "the big picture" which is why her moves consistently fail. As mentioned above, she thinks she understands this "simple man of faith" and can control him, pointing him in the direction of her enemies. She hasn't thought through the fact that her own sins could come back to bite her.
My read on her story as presented in the books is that she got played by the new High Septon. He has an end game in mind, and she fails to see it. In the TV show, she's going to get bit by her own hubris. I'm splitting hairs with the TV show. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether the idea was hers or the High Septon's.
quote:The TV show version of events, it seemed to me like she was forcing the army on the High Sparrow. He didn't seem to want it, and she didn't really get anything in return. As I remember it from the book, the High Sparrow requests the Faith Militant in exchange for gold the crown needs. I felt like the books story was done better. Obviously it's all going to backfire on her in basically the same way, but it made much more sense to me in the book than it did in the show. The scene came right after the small council meeting, so the show could have easily just had Cercei ask for money and the High Sparrow ask for his force in exchange. I don't understand the change, and I think it would have made more sense.quote:
They had just finished discussing the crippling debt that the realm is under, then it looks like she just flippantly arms the radicals out of boredom and to spite Margaery.
She did it because she thinks she is creating a powerful ally with a personal army that she can manipulate into eliminating any opposition. This due to the fact that she had essentially become powerless. Now, in her mind, she has an ally that doesn't even answer to the king.
quote:
He is going to die, literally be 100% stone cold dead after the stabbing incident at Castle Black; when they burn him for his funeral he comes back changed.
Maybe that's why they didn't introduce Lady Stoneheart. It would lessen the impact on the TV audience of Jon rising from the dead.
quote:You are probably thinking of when she put her dragon eggs in the fire and reached in to pull them out and her hand maiden was burned but Dany was not.
Sorry, I didn't mean hurt during the dragons being born bit, I meant some time after I thought she had put her hand in a candle or fire or something and getting burnt. Like I said thought I'm not 100% certain.
Dany is the child of incest of 2 Targ parents. The "dragon" thing is kind of messy though. Some are full Targ/Valyrian as she is and can neither be safe from fire or able to ride a dragon. Some that have no Targ/Valyrian at all are able to ride dragons. Targ/Valyrians are also supposed to have strong immunities to sickness (though this also isn't absolute) and that is part of the speculation as to why Tyrion did not get Greyscale from swallowing infected water whereas Jon Connington did from just a small touch thus making Tyrion a Targ.
quote:I never said the books were perfect, though I do prefer them to the show. My point is that the show is getting farther away from the books to the point now where it is really becoming a different story even if it does have the same ending. I also think the show has a lot more sloppiness now but that is hard to avoid. Martin can simply write an extra paragraph or page to connect the dots in the books but that is much harder in the show.
There are lots of sloppy story lines in the books as well.
Would make some sense, I think the show has kept the super magic on the down low as to not runoff the non-fantasy fan.
quote:
Would make some sense, I think the show has kept the super magic on the down low as to not runoff the non-fantasy fan.
Kind of my point exactly, it's basically been once a season where it goes over the top fantasy; where as in the books we have these giant dire wolves running a mock, people warging into animals and humans, a dead lady with her head mostly severed from her body walking around leading a band of brigands, more dragons, greyscale stuff, the red lady changing someone elses looks/body with Mance.... should I go on?
If you don't think the show keeps the fantasy stuff to the bare minimum you should do a re-read.
If you don't think the show keeps the fantasy stuff to the bare minimum you should do a re-read.
Really wish when they made it into the cave, Meera had turned to Leaf and said, "hey, where were you and your magic missile spell 5 minutes ago when my brother was getting hacked to pieces?"
If Jon is AA, does he even need Melisandre to help him rise?
I'm still very suspicious of her. Her point of view chapter makes her seem ok but there are other things going on. We have seen a few red priests. Only she uses shadows to kill, right? Why would a red priestess use shadow magic when she serves the lord of light? She is also from Asshai which is near the Shadowlands. The place is supposed to be pretty ominous. Seems like a great place for the Great Other to find servants. It would make sense for the Great Other to try to use a false red priest to subvert the Lord of Light. Propping up a false AA like Stannis and trying to seduce Jon Snow seem like great ways to serve the Great Other. Maybe this series has just made me too paranoid
I'm still very suspicious of her. Her point of view chapter makes her seem ok but there are other things going on. We have seen a few red priests. Only she uses shadows to kill, right? Why would a red priestess use shadow magic when she serves the lord of light? She is also from Asshai which is near the Shadowlands. The place is supposed to be pretty ominous. Seems like a great place for the Great Other to find servants. It would make sense for the Great Other to try to use a false red priest to subvert the Lord of Light. Propping up a false AA like Stannis and trying to seduce Jon Snow seem like great ways to serve the Great Other. Maybe this series has just made me too paranoid
Well without light there is no shadow(s). But good points otherwise, I could see Martin taking that twist now that I've read the books.
quote:
The "You know nothing Jon Snow" line was awesome but I'm still trying to figure out where they are going with all that.
Maybe she had followed their love story in her flames...or maybe her black magic allowed her to warg into Ygrette to sway Jon Snow into betraying his vows not to know women... Wouldn't put anything past crazy storylines.
quote:They are not immune to Fire. GRRM confirmed this 15 years ago.
Fire can't hurt SOME Trags, it'll kill others. But yes, Reagar, Viscerys, and Dany are all 100% Targs born of incest I believe or close to it.
quote:http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html
Granny - Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?
George_RR_Martin - Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.
Revanshe - So she won't be able to do it again?
George_RR_Martin - Probably not.
Well, then he went and wrote a chapter in which she walks right up to Drogon, fire and all, and comes away unburnt again. So, it's a safe bet Dany, at least, is immune to fire.
I had never heard that about Tyrion being a Targ but I would be completely for it. Way too much stuff for it to be a coincidence
quote:Ygritte was a Red-Head afterallquote:
The "You know nothing Jon Snow" line was awesome but I'm still trying to figure out where they are going with all that.
Maybe she had followed their love story in her flames...or maybe her black magic allowed her to warg into Ygrette to sway Jon Snow into betraying his vows not to know women... Wouldn't put anything past crazy storylines.
quote:SPOILER:quote:They are not immune to Fire. GRRM confirmed this 15 years ago.
Fire can't hurt SOME Trags, it'll kill others. But yes, Reagar, Viscerys, and Dany are all 100% Targs born of incest I believe or close to it.
quote:http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html
Granny - Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?
George_RR_Martin - Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.
Revanshe - So she won't be able to do it again?
George_RR_Martin - Probably not.
Yeah but didn't she do it again in the books later when she rode off on Drogon?
quote:Or what redline wrote
Well, then he went and wrote a chapter in which she walks right up to Drogon, fire and all, and comes away unburnt again. So, it's a safe bet Dany, at least, is immune to fire.
quote:Danerys is NOT "full Targ" in the sense that some seem to be using the term.
Her hair all burned off but she was unhurt. I think it has more to do with being "the dragon" than being a Targ.
Her parents (Aerys II and Rhaella Targaryen) were full siblings to one another, as were her grandparents (Jaehaerys II and Shaera Targaryen), but NONE of them were "full Targaryen.
Danerys' great-grandfather (Aegon V) married a Blackwood, meaning that his children (Dany's grandparents) were half-Blackwood. When they married and reproduced, THEIR children (Dany's parents) were also half-Blackwood.
So, Damerys herself is (genetically) half Blackwood and half Targaryen.
So, Jon Snow would be 1/4 Targaryen, 1/4 Blackwood and 1/2 mostly blood of the First Men (thru Lyanna Stark) ... assuming one agress that his parents were Lyanna and Rhaegar.
quote:She certainly seemed to get a rise out of him last Sunday.
If Jon is AA, does he even need Melisandre to help him rise?
quote:quote:She certainly seemed to get a rise out of him last Sunday.
If Jon is AA, does he even need Melisandre to help him rise?
Nice
Lots to like in this episode
R+L= J references
Melisandre seducing
Sansa looking good
Dany looking good on balcony, but not having to deal with her for several scenes
Definitely some kind of setup for a Shireen sacrifice
R+L= J references
Melisandre seducing
Sansa looking good
Dany looking good on balcony, but not having to deal with her for several scenes
Definitely some kind of setup for a Shireen sacrifice
What was the line Dany used when Viserys had the molten gold poured on his head?
Oh - found it on IMDB. Hope this is accurate:
Season 1 seemed to establish this pretty consistently - she steps into the piping hot bath water, that line there, and her coming out of the fire unscathed with her baby dragons.
That said... there are some concepts or characters or arcs from the early seasons that haven't really made it through to the rest of the show. So perhaps this isn't considered an unbreakable rule these days by GRRM or the showrunners.
Oh - found it on IMDB. Hope this is accurate:
quote:
(Daenerys watches Drogo killing Viserys by pouring molten gold on his head. Daenerys does not shed a single tear for her brother)
Daenerys Targaryen: He was no dragon. Fire cannot kill a dragon.
Season 1 seemed to establish this pretty consistently - she steps into the piping hot bath water, that line there, and her coming out of the fire unscathed with her baby dragons.
That said... there are some concepts or characters or arcs from the early seasons that haven't really made it through to the rest of the show. So perhaps this isn't considered an unbreakable rule these days by GRRM or the showrunners.
Jon Snow gonna walk out of the fire and be like,
I was at Pompeii. Fire is nothing
I was at Pompeii. Fire is nothing
quote:I'm not seeing Stannis deciding to sacrifice his daughter after hugging it out with her.
Lots to like in this episode
R+L= J references
Melisandre seducing
Sansa looking good
Dany looking good on balcony, but not having to deal with her for several scenes
Definitely some kind of setup for a Shireen sacrifice
quote:quote:I'm not seeing Stannis deciding to sacrifice his daughter after hugging it out with her.
Lots to like in this episode
R+L= J references
Melisandre seducing
Sansa looking good
Dany looking good on balcony, but not having to deal with her for several scenes
Definitely some kind of setup for a Shireen sacrifice
My (completely unsubstantiated theory: Stannis is killed by Brienne during the siege of Winterfell at the same time Jon is killed by his brothers. Melisandra sacrifices Shireen in an attempt to "raise Azor Ahai." Stannis stays dead, and amid her distraught and confusion, Jon's eyes open.
That would be pretty cool
I just thought of this, but since we all are assuming Jon is going to die and be brought back to life, wouldn't that release him from his vow to the Night's Watch? He could then theoretically leave and become a major player with a bunch of wildlings sympathetic to his cause.
quote:That has been a major part of the theories with him going South and tearing **** up. His death at the hands of his brothers releases him from his vow. I figure at his funeral they'll say "And now his watch has ended" then he wakes.
I just thought of this, but since we all are assuming Jon is going to die and be brought back to life, wouldn't that release him from his vow to the Night's Watch? He could then theoretically leave and become a major player with a bunch of wildlings sympathetic to his cause.
quote:quote:That has been a major part of the theories with him going South and tearing **** up. His death at the hands of his brothers releases him from his vow. I figure at his funeral they'll say "And now his watch has ended" then he wakes.
I just thought of this, but since we all are assuming Jon is going to die and be brought back to life, wouldn't that release him from his vow to the Night's Watch? He could then theoretically leave and become a major player with a bunch of wildlings sympathetic to his cause.
That would be so badass
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