**Official Game of Thrones: Season 5 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)**

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redline248
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In reply to AustinAg2K • 2:56p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
I don't think they are going to torture Sansa. They've already done that story line. I also don't think she will kill Ramsey at the wedding. That will be too predictable. I think Theon will help Sansa escape. They'll meet up with Brieanne outside of Winterfell and she will help them escape to the wall, but they'll run into Stannis's army and get captured (giving Stannis Northern support and getting Brieanne close to Stannis). Ramsey will think she's gone to the Wall, though, and demand her return causing Jon to try and raise an army and ultimately be betrayed. That's how the season is going to end. Just like the last book, with the status of Jon in question.


So I wonder if the Brienne/Jaime/Stoneheart book plot will end up somehow in the same place. Uncat hearing about the fake Arya (thinking it's real Arya) marriage, sending Brienne and Jaime to get her and kill Bolton and Brienne gets a chance at revenge vs Stannis.
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bbattbq01
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3:25p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
But yeah, no idea what's going on with the High Sparrow or the High Septon guy either, but I think its safe to say that he/they will be part of what Cersei has cooking behind the scenes. My guess with her though, is that while she thinks she can play the game like Tywin, she won't be as good as she thinks is, and things will ultimately backfire on her. I think she's kind of run her course as a character and we'll see probably by the end of this year, her in the midst of a downfall of some sorts. Maybe even dead.


From non reader thread.... Was it that obvious in the episode or has this guy read the book? Hah
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agmatt06
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3:34p, 4/27/15
AG
I mean, she basically goes to the High Sparrow who has literally given somebody the shoes off of his feet and tells him he must play the game. How she things this will end well for her is crazy.
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3:46p, 4/27/15
OnlyForNow
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In reply to Urban Ag • 3:52p, 4/27/15
AG
You're not the only one. That's a not-uncommon theory. Tywin knew this and that's why he always resented Tyroin. His non-heir children weren't his and his blood child is his.
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R0GUE
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4:06p, 4/27/15
AG
What do we think of this popular reddit theory?

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers_all_high_septon_tinfoil_theory
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mid90
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In reply to R0GUE • 4:35p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
What do we think of this popular reddit theory?

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers_all_high_septon_tinfoil_theory

I've heard this one before, and I really like it. I'm not totally convinced it's true, but I think it's certainly in the realm of possibility.

Plus, GRRM did state that at some point, Howland Reed's story (i.e. of what what happened at the Tower of Joy) will come out at some point. So, it stands to reason that he might be introduced as a character somehow.
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Thomas Ford 91
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4:37p, 4/27/15
AG
  • It seemed a bit too much of a story coincidence that we visited the Neck in the same episode we met the High Sparrow. Seriously, that whole Neck scene CGI was wasted money if it was just background. It added nothing to the story. Sansa almost certainly knew where they were going way back when they took a right turn and headed north on The Kingsroad. Ain't nothing that direction but the North. She wasn't surprised. They could have had that scene any number of places besides Moat Cailin. Honestly, I think that scene would have been better in the closed confines of that wagon they've been riding in. Lots more tension. But, they had it overlooking Moat Cailin to tease bookreading theorists. Mark my words; the Tower of Joy flashback will come from the High Sparrow. Internet will explode.
  • As a sidenote, "going around" the Neck gives Brienne an excuse to go through White Harbor. I think she gets the revenge speech that Davos gets in the book and joins the Manderly wedding party. Come wedding time, seeing Brienne with the Manderlys tells Sansa all she needs to know about her support in the room. That's why they met up in the Center of the Known Universe Tavern. And that's the end of the Boltons. In season 6, Sansa's new best friend Stannis has a visit with the Freys. Good Times.
  • Dany covered up last week; Margaery this weekwhat's up with all the modesty amongst the main female character?
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JonSnow
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4:42p, 4/27/15
So what does Littlefinger get out of this? Or is he just being a "good guy"?
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PMD03
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4:46p, 4/27/15
AG
I am wondering if TV Sansa has learned enough to play along with Ramsey when he begins to show his dark side. Maybe she helps him torture some people, and that is the dark place that Sansa was foretold to visit this season.
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Thomas Ford 91
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In reply to JonSnow • 4:47p, 4/27/15
AG
Littlefinger brought Margaery Tyrell to Kings Landing to be queen. Now a Tyrell is a consummated queen and owns the Baratheon/Lannister king. Littlefinger controls the Vale as Lord Protector. He is Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. If Sansa regains control of the North, 90%of the Realm owes Littlefinger a huge debt or is outright controlled by him. Literally everything but Dorne and the Iron Islands will belong to Littlefinger.

The double twist is Bolton revealing to Sansa how Littlefinger played a part in the death of her father, mother, and brother.

I think this is all moving towards the showdown between the only two people who are really playing the Game of Thrones, Littlefinger and Varys.
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redline248
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 5:16p, 4/27/15
AG
What does Moat Cailin have to do with the sparrow or tower of joy?
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5:19p, 4/27/15
redline248
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In reply to [removed post] • 5:25p, 4/27/15
AG
It's talked about in a Ned chapter in the first book.
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In reply to redline248 • 5:30p, 4/27/15
redline248
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In reply to [removed post] • 5:32p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
quote:
It's talked about in a Ned chapter in the first book.


So we don't know what happened there? Some sort of teaser for a later story?
If you've read the books you know at least 98% of what happened there. The promise Lyanna made Ned make is still up in the air.
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redline248
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5:33p, 4/27/15
AG
Btw, questions like yours make me wonder if you're on the right thread, ha
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5:37p, 4/27/15
redline248
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In reply to [removed post] • 5:37p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
I assure you I have read the hook but how about just providing an actual reference instead of some obscure name like tower of joy?
I was worried you might have accidentally been on the wrong thread and didn't want to end up spoiling you. In one of Ned's chapters when he's in the black cells he starts remembering the Tower of Joy, a place where 3 of the King's guard, ordered by Rhaegar, are holding Lyanna prisoner. Ned, Howland Reed and some other knights go there to rescue her and kill all the kingsguard. Only Ned and Reed survive to know the truth of what happened. Lyanna dies and has Ned make some promise to her.
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redline248
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5:41p, 4/27/15
AG
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be vague to be a jerk.

Edit: I just realized I accidentally typed was instead of wasn't.
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AustinAg2K
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 6:08p, 4/27/15
quote:
  • Dany covered up last week; Margaery this weekwhat's up with all the modesty amongst the main female character?
I don't know about the actress who pays Margaery, but I do know the actress who plays Dany has refused to do anymore nude scenes.
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MW03
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In reply to [removed post] • 6:16p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
Never mind I found it
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tower_of_Joy

Just saying that is where Ned's sister was being kept during the war and where she died would have brought back the Memory.

I don't think we know how she ended up dead do we?

They say she died in a bed of blood. That's odd because the entrance to the Tower is being guarded. Then Ned comes in, finds her, and has to make her an undisclosed promise on her death bed. Unless you think she was stabbed or something and that the guards were trying to prevent people from getting in to save her, you have to think he's referencing childbirth there.

The problem with the show versus the book is the imagery. In the book, Ned talks about blue rose petals blowing across the sky while they fight, says the room smelled of roses, and that Lyanna was obsessed with winter roses. Then Dany sees a blue rose in the ice wall while having vision in the house of white and black (cut out of the show).

That being said, the show did give us some goods from Oberyn Martel about Lyanna and Rhaegar i his comments to Tyrion.
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Thomas Ford 91
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In reply to redline248 • 7:12p, 4/27/15
AG
When I think of Moat Cailin, I think of The Neck. When I think of The Neck, I think of Howland Reed. When I think of Howland Reed, I think of the Tower of Joy. I think the High Sparrow is Howland Reed.

Somewhere on this thread I think there is a location shot of what is surely the Tower of Joy. I think that flashback is coming. Since the only living person left with any connection is Howland Reed, that flashback is surely coming from him.

Unless we're going to flashback to Ned flashing back. Or maybe Jon Snow has a "life flashing before his eyes moment" than ends at the TOJ. Hmmmm. Chew on that for a minute.
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redline248
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 7:26p, 4/27/15
AG
I figured you were going with that theory. I just didn't quite see the jump from that castle to the sparrow, or even Reed, since he has his own land.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 7:39p, 4/27/15
AG
I like that theory as well as Them finally finding Benjen Stark and he tells Jon the truth.
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The Debt
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7:52p, 4/27/15
I'm firmly behind the three dragons theory.

Danys mother rhaella died after childbirth, as did Joanna lannister and if the R+L holds up that's three.

This only holds if the rumors of Joanna and prince Aerys targaryen (the mad king) are true.

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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 7:53p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
I like that theory as well as Them finally finding Benjen Stark and he tells Jon the truth.

I've always thought it would be Benjen Stark as well...not Howland Reed...or maybe it takes the confirmation of both to prove it.

either way...a flashback with Ned Stark would be pretty awesome...non readers would love that and be very intrigued as well. Although I bet most viewers have forgotten about Benjen by now....would be out of the blue if he just shows up, kinda like the Cersei flashback where non readers were highly confused for a bit.




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MaroonStain
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8:15p, 4/27/15
AG
I'm reading DwD right now, 100 pages in. I was going to ask if ColdHands is BenJen.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 8:16p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
When I think of Moat Cailin, I think of The Neck. When I think of The Neck, I think of Howland Reed. When I think of Howland Reed, I think of the Tower of Joy. I think the High Sparrow is Howland Reed.

Somewhere on this thread I think there is a location shot of what is surely the Tower of Joy. I think that flashback is coming. Since the only living person left with any connection is Howland Reed, that flashback is surely coming from him.

Unless we're going to flashback to Ned flashing back. Or maybe Jon Snow has a "life flashing before his eyes moment" than ends at the TOJ. Hmmmm. Chew on that for a minute.
i highly doubt the high sparrow is howland reed....

primarily because i am quite sure howland reed would be known by the lannisters and others...from his travels with Ned Stark.


but if not him, then who is the high sparrow....his background is relatively unknown except he was elected by the other sparrows. but he has to be someone important, you don't get jonathan price to play someone inconsequential.

i believe he may be a surviving Reyne from the Lannister crushing of the Reyne rebellion which is glorified in the popular song of the day the Rains of Castemere. Cersei in fact uses the story before Margaery's wedding to joffrey to intimidate her about what the lannisters are capable of.

why do you need to include that story, and song for that matter, unless it is important. the high sparrow may want revenge on house lannister because of the death of his entire family. had he been in the citadel studying the entire time he may not have been killed in the battle.

and now in the wake of the war the sparrows have become the leaders in effect of the Faith of the Seven religion because the current high septon and others are corrupted (by the lannisters and greed and their position, etc.).
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to MaroonStain • 8:17p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
I'm reading DwD right now, 100 pages in. I was going to ask if ColdHands is BenJen.

we don't know....that is another fan theory however.
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The Dog Lord
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8:27p, 4/27/15
AG
I'm not really in the camp of the books and the multiple storylines therein being pointless. By that logic, JK Rowling shouldn't have bothered with horcruxes, characters that didn't fight in the final battle, events/people that only contributed to the development of the story, etc. and simply jumped to a duel between Harry and Voldemort. I particularly like not knowing exactly what is going to happen and what is important. There are a million different ways the story could go. I just hope that there aren't too many "reveals" at the very end.

As far as the show goes:
  • I wonder if Sansa's dark moment will be sacrificing her virginity to kill Ramsay mid-sex. It's almost the biggest sacrifice that a character like hers could make. He'll likely never be as vulnerable. Perhaps they pull Theon in for some revenge also by having him kill Ramsay while he is distracted by Sansa.
  • I agree with whoever said they are setting Jon up for his doom but to rescue Sansa this time. They've been hammering home him wanting vengeance and much of the watch not liking certain things he does.
  • Maester Aemon's declining health was mentioned, but if they still intend for Sam to leave, I hope they don't drag his travels out. Does anyone else think they may just cut the Maester's as well as the Ironborn?
And to anyone who thinks all of our favorite characters make it out of this alive and happy...

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AggieSouth06
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 8:50p, 4/27/15
quote:
quote:
I'm reading DwD right now, 100 pages in. I was going to ask if ColdHands is BenJen.

we don't know....that is another fan theory however.


GRRM has already flatly debunked this one. Indirectly (to his editor), but it's debunked.
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bangobango
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 9:57p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
quote:
When I think of Moat Cailin, I think of The Neck. When I think of The Neck, I think of Howland Reed. When I think of Howland Reed, I think of the Tower of Joy. I think the High Sparrow is Howland Reed.

Somewhere on this thread I think there is a location shot of what is surely the Tower of Joy. I think that flashback is coming. Since the only living person left with any connection is Howland Reed, that flashback is surely coming from him.

Unless we're going to flashback to Ned flashing back. Or maybe Jon Snow has a "life flashing before his eyes moment" than ends at the TOJ. Hmmmm. Chew on that for a minute.
i highly doubt the high sparrow is howland reed....

primarily because i am quite sure howland reed would be known by the lannisters and others...from his travels with Ned Stark.


but if not him, then who is the high sparrow....his background is relatively unknown except he was elected by the other sparrows. but he has to be someone important, you don't get jonathan price to play someone inconsequential.

i believe he may be a surviving Reyne from the Lannister crushing of the Reyne rebellion which is glorified in the popular song of the day the Rains of Castemere. Cersei in fact uses the story before Margaery's wedding to joffrey to intimidate her about what the lannisters are capable of.

why do you need to include that story, and song for that matter, unless it is important. the high sparrow may want revenge on house lannister because of the death of his entire family. had he been in the citadel studying the entire time he may not have been killed in the battle.

and now in the wake of the war the sparrows have become the leaders in effect of the Faith of the Seven religion because the current high septon and others are corrupted (by the lannisters and greed and their position, etc.).
I don't think inclusion of the song is foreshadowing anything. They included it because it's a rich part of the history of the story and it made for some really badass moments in the story.

I'm not saying your theory is wrong, I just think that is the flimsiest of justifications.
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bangobango
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In reply to AggieSouth06 • 9:57p, 4/27/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm reading DwD right now, 100 pages in. I was going to ask if ColdHands is BenJen.

we don't know....that is another fan theory however.


GRRM has already flatly debunked this one. Indirectly (to his editor), but it's debunked.
I thought the Howland Reed as High Sparrow had been debunked, too. Has it not?
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