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So as compared to the books:

Jon - same point - "dying"
Cercei- same point - post WOS with Strong awaiting trial
Dany- similar - found by Dothraki, but we know they're friends in the book.
Tyrion - ahead of the books in Mereen
Stannis - way ahead and dead (I think Brienne hated him too much) ... Interesting to see if WoW circles back to essentially this point. In other words: was the show actually a book spoiler?!
Jamie - just so different (book he's with Brienne somewhere and show he's on a slow boat from Dorne)
Mel - circled back to book in that she's with dying Jon at Castle Black.
Sam - close to same point on his way to Old Town.
Bran - same but in books its hinted he's watching Winterfell/Theon - back season 6?
Arya- I'm going to say show is behind. Although it will be interesting to see how much training they short-cycle next season.
Littlefinger- call it the same - kindof lurking

Any others?

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So as compared to the books:

Jon - same point - "dying"
Cercei- same point - post WOS with Strong awaiting trial
Dany- similar - found by Dothraki, but we know they're friends in the book.
Tyrion - ahead of the books in Mereen
Stannis - way ahead and dead (I think Brienne hated him too much) ... Interesting to see if WoW circles back to essentially this point. In other words: was the show actually a book spoiler?!
Jamie - just so different (book he's with Brienne somewhere and show he's on a slow boat from Dorne)
Mel - circled back to book in that she's with dying Jon at Castle Black.
Sam - close to same point on his way to Old Town.
Bran - same but in books its hinted he's watching Winterfell/Theon - back season 6?
Arya- I'm going to say show is behind. Although it will be interesting to see how much training they short-cycle next season.
Littlefinger- call it the same - kindof lurking

Any others?

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Davos - completely different. Show hanging out at the wall, books looking for Rickon at Skagos.
Margaery Tyrell - different path, but about the same place, she was released in the books.

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Dany- similar - found by Dothraki, but we know they're friends in the book

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I'm shocked that anyone would think Stannis is still alive in the show. Brienne ditched Sansa (so much for that Oathkeeping) to get revenge. She's said before she'd kill him. She told him she was going to kill him. She lifts the sword and (IIRC) we hear the swing. Just because someone doesn't die on-screen doesn't mean they don't die. It'd be a complete 180 for her to suddenly spare him. Besides, he's bleeding out anyway. And if the Bolton's catch him they'll flay him alive.

I suppose it's a possibility... but it's a pretty stupid one. It'd be a Marvel Comics level of plot armor (where no one ever truly dies, except Uncle Ben).

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My bet:

Stannis is still alive, especially with that cutaway at the last moment.

What will happen is that we will get back to Sansa/Theon, who stumble upon the scene while fleeing WInterfell.

Brianne will miss her swing, and the group will have a discussion about fleeing to Castle Black.

They will take Stannis with them. As Stannis is dying, his last sacrifice will be his blood so the Red Woman can use it to resurrect Jon.

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So many questions and observations running through my head, most of them stupid, that I have after last night.

1) Who speaks at Jon Snow's funeral/burning? Random NW Guy? "I liked Jon Snow all right, that's why I wanted to be the fourth guy to stab him, because he was already going to die at that point, and I didn't want to feel bad."

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2) What does the NW even do now? They've got the army of the dead and the WW coming towards the Wall and the wildings that they hate south of the wall. Do they start trying to build another wall to the south to keep the Wildings from coming back and killing them?

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3) Does Olly get some votes for next Lord Commander? I mean he's the one that got Jon Snow outside for the traitor rally.

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4) Who all is on the boat where Myrcella did? Bronn, Jamie, Trystane, and maybe 3 sailors? Gonna be some uncomfortable silences at the dinner table on the way back to KL.

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5) Now that Cersei is back inside the Red Keep, how could they possibly ever get her to stand trial? No way the Lannister guards/City Watch would kowtow to High Septy and Friends.

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6) Reek and Sansa, on foot, probably injured, in the snow, right outside of Winterfell. I say Ramsay finds them within 15 minutes.

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7) In both show and book I'm really curious to see who the Faith's champion will be vs. Robert Strong in Cersei's eventual trial. I keep thinking back to the Mad King telling Rickard Stark that fire was House Targareyn's champion and expecting something equally tricky.

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8) If they ever make an Emmy category for "Really creepy guy", Qyburn wins it going away. Next to him, Varys looks like affable next door neighbor material.

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9) Unless Drogon is the heaviest sleeper in the universe, I have to believe he heard the 40,000 horses running around, considering he was tracking down sheep left and right from a distance two years ago.

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10) Hey Grey Worm, you're inside, put a damn shirt on.

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11) Congrats to Grand Maester Pycelle on getting his beard back to Santa Claus length. Next stop, James Harden.

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12) I really like show Arya more than book Arya. Show Arya is channeling all that rage over the injustice to her family into some dark actions and really enjoying it.

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13) When Sam & Jon were talking about Longclaw killing the WW and how many Valyrian steel swords are around, I wanted Sam to say "Apparently 7 million based on how many people have one."

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Dany- similar - found by Dothraki, but we know they're friends in the book

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As stated by another poster, they ain't her friend in the books. In fact, in the books isn't it her that finds them while flying on Drogon?

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So many questions and observations running through my head, most of them stupid, that I have after last night.

1) Who speaks at Jon Snow's funeral/burning? Random NW Guy? "I liked Jon Snow all right, that's why I wanted to be the fourth guy to stab him, because he was already going to die at that point, and I didn't want to feel bad."

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I'm betting on Alliser..it'll be brief though.

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2) What does the NW even do now? They've got the army of the dead and the WW coming towards the Wall and the wildings that they hate south of the wall. Do they start trying to build another wall to the south to keep the Wildings from coming back and killing them?

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they don't even know that. i don't think any that went to Hardhome are around or nobody believes them.

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3) Does Olly get some votes for next Lord Commander? I mean he's the one that got Jon Snow outside for the traitor rally.

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don't care. he's dead either by wildlings, jon or ww's.

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4) Who all is on the boat where Myrcella did? Bronn, Jamie, Trystane, and maybe 3 sailors? Gonna be some uncomfortable silences at the dinner table on the way back to KL.

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yep. trystane will be a hostage basically. i guess ellia didn;t care. more pertinent question...when does doran find out and what does he do about it.

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5) Now that Cersei is back inside the Red Keep, how could they possibly ever get her to stand trial? No way the Lannister guards/City Watch would kowtow to High Septy and Friends.

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faith militant are still in charge.

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6) Reek and Sansa, on foot, probably injured, in the snow, right outside of Winterfell. I say Ramsay finds them within 15 minutes.

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We don't know where Pod is...maybe Brienne took off but Pod sawthe singal and was heading there...saw them jump and went to get them.

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7) In both show and book I'm really curious to see who the Faith's champion will be vs. Robert Strong in Cersei's eventual trial. I keep thinking back to the Mad King telling Rickard Stark that fire was House Targareyn's champion and expecting something equally tricky.

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I don't think those kind of trials allows a champion, thats for crimes against the crown itself and the kings justice.

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8) If they ever make an Emmy category for "Really creepy guy", Qyburn wins it going away. Next to him, Varys looks like affable next door neighbor material.

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he's a very good actor.

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9) Unless Drogon is the heaviest sleeper in the universe, I have to believe he heard the 40,000 horses running around, considering he was tracking down sheep left and right from a distance two years ago.

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yes or the other dragons get set free....or jorah and daario track them down and get her out somehow.

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10) Hey Grey Worm, you're inside, put a damn shirt on.

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i'm secure enough in my manhood that he can go shirtless.....not like he is a threat to steal anyones woman.

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11) Congrats to Grand Maester Pycelle on getting his beard back to Santa Claus length. Next stop, James Harden.

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thing of beauty

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12) I really like show Arya more than book Arya. Show Arya is channeling all that rage over the injustice to her family into some dark actions and really enjoying it.

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ditto

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13) When Sam & Jon were talking about Longclaw killing the WW and how many Valyrian steel swords are around, I wanted Sam to say "Apparently 7 million based on how many people have one."

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funny...but they needed to dispel with that idea as a solution.

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Yeah they kinda botched the Winterfell invasion I think.

"Give us your wildlings!" "No." "Oh okay."
"20 men burned our siege equipment!" "Dang."
"Half our forces mutinied!" "Dang."

(At this point, what's going to happen with a small army and no siege equipment attacking walls?)

"The Boltons are approaching!" "Let's walk at them"

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Yeah they kinda botched the Winterfell invasion I think.

"Give us your wildlings!" "No." "Oh okay."
"20 men burned our siege equipment!" "Dang."
"Half our forces mutinied!" "Dang."

(At this point, what's going to happen with a small army and no siege equipment attacking walls?)

"The Boltons are approaching!" "Let's walk at them"

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take it back a couple steps. Why did Stannis choose to go North? What did he expect would happen? Did he expect the Northern houses to better resist the Boltons and flock to his banner? Did he really expect to create a wildling army? What a complete disaster.

If he had just bided his time in Dragonstone wouldn't he have had a decent shot at retaking KIngs landing after Tywin died?

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If anyone thinks Brienne did not kill Stannis, then either you do not understand her character at all or GRRM made his worst mistake of the series.

There is no logical or even fanciful way in which the character Brienne would let Stannis live. Talk about jumping the shark.

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Pro hint: Stannis is still alive in the books, has not attacked Winterfell.

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If anyone thinks Brienne did not kill Stannis, then either you do not understand her character at all or GRRM made his worst mistake of the series.

There is no logical or even fanciful way in which the character Brienne would let Stannis live. Talk about jumping the shark.

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Are you serious?

You do realize nothing in this scene (Brienne/Stannis in the woods) is from the books. This has not happened and there is no indication that it will happen. Pro hint: Stannis is still alive in the books, has not attacked Winterfell. Brienne is off captured by a Zombie Stark.

GRRM had nothing to do with this. And I fully understand the characters. You, however, do not understand the difference between book and show.

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Yeah they kinda botched the Winterfell invasion I think.

"Give us your wildlings!" "No." "Oh okay."
"20 men burned our siege equipment!" "Dang."
"Half our forces mutinied!" "Dang."

(At this point, what's going to happen with a small army and no siege equipment attacking walls?)

"The Boltons are approaching!" "Let's walk at them"

---

take it back a couple steps. Why did Stannis choose to go North? What did he expect would happen? Did he expect the Northern houses to better resist the Boltons and flock to his banner? Did he really expect to create a wildling army? What a complete disaster.

If he had just bided his time in Dragonstone wouldn't he have had a decent shot at retaking KIngs landing after Tywin died?

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If anyone thinks Brienne did not kill Stannis, then either you do not understand her character at all or GRRM made his worst mistake of the series.

There is no logical or even fanciful way in which the character Brienne would let Stannis live. Talk about jumping the shark.

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Are you serious?

You do realize nothing in this scene (Brienne/Stannis in the woods) is from the books. This has not happened and there is no indication that it will happen. Pro hint: Stannis is still alive in the books, has not attacked Winterfell. Brienne is off captured by a Zombie Stark.

GRRM had nothing to do with this. And I fully understand the characters. You, however, do not understand the difference between book and show.

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pro tip: don't get worked up when someone points out your idiotic posts.

yes, the books and the show are different. yes, for all we know Stannis is alive in the books. however, in both the book and the show, Brienne owes her life to Renly. She makes it well known multiple times throughout. She knows Stannis is responsible.

There is nothing about her character in either the show or the books that would suggest she would let Stannis live.

Doing that is just plane bad writing in every way.

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If anyone thinks Brienne did not kill Stannis, then either you do not understand her character at all or GRRM made his worst mistake of the series.

There is no logical or even fanciful way in which the character Brienne would let Stannis live. Talk about jumping the shark.

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Are you serious?

You do realize nothing in this scene (Brienne/Stannis in the woods) is from the books. This has not happened and there is no indication that it will happen. Pro hint: Stannis is still alive in the books, has not attacked Winterfell. Brienne is off captured by a Zombie Stark.

GRRM had nothing to do with this. And I fully understand the characters. You, however, do not understand the difference between book and show.

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pro tip: don't get worked up when someone points out your idiotic posts.

yes, the books and the show are different. yes, for all we know Stannis is alive in the books. however, in both the book and the show, Brienne owes her life to Renly. She makes it well known multiple times throughout. She knows Stannis is responsible.

There is nothing about her character in either the show or the books that would suggest she would let Stannis live.

Doing that is just plane bad writing in every way.

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Stab is alive they have already released chapters with him in them. Unless Melisandre is doing a glamour again.

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that part doesn't matter. What matters is understanding that given the chance Brienne absolutely would kill Stannis 100% of the time. it does not matter that we didn't "witness" it.

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I'm shocked that anyone would think Stannis is still alive in the show. Brienne ditched Sansa (so much for that Oathkeeping) to get revenge. She's said before she'd kill him. She told him she was going to kill him. She lifts the sword and (IIRC) we hear the swing. Just because someone doesn't die on-screen doesn't mean they don't die. It'd be a complete 180 for her to suddenly spare him. Besides, he's bleeding out anyway. And if the Bolton's catch him they'll flay him alive.

I suppose it's a possibility... but it's a pretty stupid one. It'd be a Marvel Comics level of plot armor (where no one ever truly dies, except Uncle Ben).

---

My bet:

Stannis is still alive, especially with that cutaway at the last moment.

What will happen is that we will get back to Sansa/Theon, who stumble upon the scene while fleeing WInterfell.

Brianne will miss her swing, and the group will have a discussion about fleeing to Castle Black.

They will take Stannis with them. As Stannis is dying, his last sacrifice will be his blood so the Red Woman can use it to resurrect Jon.

---

If anyone thinks Brienne did not kill Stannis, then either you do not understand her character at all or GRRM made his worst mistake of the series.

There is no logical or even fanciful way in which the character Brienne would let Stannis live. Talk about jumping the shark.

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Hat tip to James Hibberd (EW GOT recaps)

Arya Stark = O'ren Ishii

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Yeah they kinda botched the Winterfell invasion I think.

"Give us your wildlings!" "No." "Oh okay."
"20 men burned our siege equipment!" "Dang."
"Half our forces mutinied!" "Dang."

(At this point, what's going to happen with a small army and no siege equipment attacking walls?)

"The Boltons are approaching!" "Let's walk at them"

---

take it back a couple steps. Why did Stannis choose to go North? What did he expect would happen? Did he expect the Northern houses to better resist the Boltons and flock to his banner? Did he really expect to create a wildling army? What a complete disaster.

If he had just bided his time in Dragonstone wouldn't he have had a decent shot at retaking KIngs landing after Tywin died?

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Davos Seaworth taught him that his thinking was all wrong. Stannis thought he had to win the throne to save the kingdom. Davos convinced him he had to save the kingdom to win the throne. The most imminent threat to the kingdom was the wildings descending on the wall. Plus Melisandre kept saying your true enemy was north, and stannis believed he was the one chosen to fight the real evil - the WW.

He thought the notherners would be more open to the guy who saved them from the wildings, and that Jon Snow would become Jon Stark and be a compliant Warden of the North once the Boltons had been routed out of Winterfell.

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