Good point. Maybe he just wants to give Daario the bug.
**Official Game of Thrones: Season 5 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)**
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Last: 8 yr ago by Al Bula
quote:That would actually be pretty funny if he did.
Good point. Maybe he just wants to give Daario the bug.
quote:You realize that this is the book reader thread, right? Have you read the books?
Seemed just as reasonable for aemon to have one (figuring they had a bunch compared to a lowly house like the mormonts) than joer mormont. Didn't Mormont also abdicate rule of his island to his son, so why wouldn't the sword have stayed with jorah?
quote:quote:You realize that this is the book reader thread, right? Have you read the books?
Seemed just as reasonable for aemon to have one (figuring they had a bunch compared to a lowly house like the mormonts) than joer mormont. Didn't Mormont also abdicate rule of his island to his son, so why wouldn't the sword have stayed with jorah?
Yeah I have read the books. I certainly don't remember the books indicating that the sword was returned to Joer when his son was banished.
His son never had the sword.
His father didn't take the black until his son was banished...
His father didn't take the black until his son was banished...
quote:Good Lord.
His son never had the sword.
His father didn't take the black until his son was banished...
Jeor Mormont (the Old Bear) took the Black (we are never told why), and Jorah assumed the lordship of Bear Island. Because Jorah was now "Lord Mormont," Longclaw was left with him when Jeor headed to Castle Black.
Jorah took a wife from a rich and powerful Southern family (well above him socially) because he impressed her by winning a Tourney. He brought her back to Bear Island, but she did not like it because it was isolated and rustic.
Jorah spent all of his money buying things for her, importing singers and cooks, trying to keep the spoiled little (euphemism for female dog) happy, bankrupting himself in the process.
Eventually, in a desperate effort to get more money to buy stuff for his "Lady," Jorah chose to sell two poachers into slavery in Essos, rather than sending them to the Wall. Eddard Stark learned of this and sentenced Jorah to death.
Jorah fled with his Lady, but had enough honor left in him to leave the heirloom sword for his family.
Joer's sister (Maege Mormont) assumed the rule of Bear Island, but she sent Longclaw to Jeor on the Wall.
Lesson of the story, Jorah gets a little obsessive with women he has the hots for.
HE married Lynesse Hightower. To her defense, she did come from the second most powreeful family in the Reach, who controlled Oldtown. She was probably expecting to be treated like Cersei.
Jorah won the tourney at Lannisport
Jorah won the tourney at Lannisport
Sounds like Jorah should have just sold the sword to Tywin
We got a sword that apparently was too important to the family to sell when money was needed but the old man gives it away to the first ******* that shows up at the wall.
quote:Exactly. It doesn't make any sense.
We got a sword that apparently was too important to the family to sell when money was needed but the old man gives it away to the first ******* that shows up at the wall.
Now look at how Jeor's Raven ****s his pants when discussing Jon as a King:
quote:
"King," croaked the raven. The bird flapped across the air to land on Mormont's shoulder. "King," it said again, strutting back and forth.
"He likes that word," Jon said, smiling.
"An easy word to say. An easy word to like."
"King," the bird said again.
"I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord."
"The realm has three kings already, and that's two too many for my liking." Mormont stroked the raven under the beak with his finger, but all the while his eyes never left Jon Snow.
-Jon I, ACOK
It seems probable Bloodraven has been at the least influencing events at Castle Black through the raven, if not outright communicating with Jeor. There honestly just isn't much else to Jeor's storyline so we don't have much else to go on as to why he gave Jon Longclaw. But if Bloodraven influenced the decision, and I think he did, then above quote about Jon being a King becomes important in the context of why Jeor gave up Longclaw/Blackfyre.
quote:That's a bit of a stretch to say anyone was discussing Jon as a king. Mormont was talking about Aemon and the line of Targaryens that resulted in Aemon being asked to be king. The Raven also says "me, me, me..." a bunch in that same chapter. Maybe they are implying the raven is descended from kings, too.
Now look at how Jeor's Raven ****s his pants when discussing Jon as a King:
They were also talking about Robb's recent crowning in the north.
It is never clearly stated when Joer took the black in relation to when Jorah was found to be a slaver, but lots of indications that Jorah was acting as ruler of Bear Island when that occured, so Joer would have been gone to the Watch at that point in time.
Is there any way Joer knows Jon's lineage? Not that it matters now, but he did fight for the Starks during RR...
Is there any way Joer knows Jon's lineage? Not that it matters now, but he did fight for the Starks during RR...
I agree that the context of the above passage is an extended discussion about Aemon, but Jeor's Raven has made too many poignant comments over the series to be easily dismissed as a simple raven. Especially with how integral the three-eyed raven has been in Bran's storyline.
There are just to many examples to easily dismiss the raven.
Bloodraven talking to Bran:
Bloodraven is excited that Bran will live:
There are just to many examples to easily dismiss the raven.
Bloodraven talking to Bran:
quote:
I'm trying, the crow replied. Say, got any corn?
Bloodraven is excited that Bran will live:
quote:Bloodraven knew it was foolish to send Royce as a lead Ranger:
Bran was going to live. "My brother is going to live," he told Mormont. The Lord Commander shook his head, gathered up a fistful of corn, and whistled. The raven flew to his shoulder, crying, "Live! Live!"
quote:Bloodraven knows that fire kills wights:
The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool I."
"Fool," the raven agreed. Tyrion glanced up. The bird peered down at him with those beady black eyes, ruffling its wings. "Fool," it called again. Doubtless old Mormont would take it amiss if he throttled the creature. A pity.
quote:Bloodraven would obviously be disgusted about Joffery being on the throne:
Jon tried to shout, but his voice was gone. Staggering to his feet, he kicked the arm away and snatched the lamp from the Old Bear's fingers. The flame flickered and almost died. "Burn!" the raven cawed. "Burn, burn, burn!"
quote:About Longclaw which may be effective in battling the others:
"We have white shadows in the woods and unquiet dead stalking our halls, and a boy sits the Iron Throne," he said in disgust.
The raven laughed shrilly. "Boy, boy, boy, boy."
quote:Bloodraven was the LC of the Watch. He wants the Watch to remember its real purpose, protecting the realm against the others:
"Take it," echoed his raven, preening. "Take it, take it."
quote:Bloodraven most likely knows of the coming war of the others:
"...yet if the Night's Watch does not remember, who will?"
"Who will," chimed the talkative raven. "Who will."
quote:Bloodraven is possibly trying to make Jon question why his faster wanted him there/or Bloodraven himself is questioning why:
Jon chewed his lip. The raven flapped its wings at him. "War, war, war, war," it sang.
quote:Bloodraven knows that Craster is a slave of the others/and knows Craster's women are pretty much slaves to him:
"Your lord father sent you to us, Jon. Why, who can say?"
"Why? Why? Why?" the raven called.
quote:Bloodraven again is reiterating that he knows of Craster's horrendous deeds:
The woman licked at thin lips. "This is our place. Craster keeps us safe. Better to die free than live a slave."
"Slave," muttered the raven.
quote:This is directly before the slaughter at The Fist:
"He gives his sons to the wood."
A long silence. Then: "Yes." And "Yes," the raven muttered, strutting. "Yes, yes, yes."
quote:Bloodraven telling Sam to hurry up and flee Craster's:
"Die," screamed Mormont's raven, flapping its black wings. "Die, die, die."
quote:Bloodraven choosing Jon for Lord Commander at a key moment in the voting for LC:
"Quick" the raven said. "Quick quick quick."
quote:Bloodraven possibly foreshadowing Jon's death (he screams death frequently):
The kettle was in the corner by the hearth, a big black potbellied thing with two huge handles and a heavy lid. Maester Aemon said a word to Sam and Clydas and they went and grabbed the handles and dragged the kettle over to the table. A few of the brothers were already queueing up by the token barrels as Clydas took the lid off and almost dropped it on his foot. With a raucous scream and a clap of wings, a huge raven burst out of the kettle. It flapped upward, seeking the rafters perhaps, or a window to make its escape, but there were no rafters in the vault, nor windows either. The raven was trapped. Cawing loudly, it circled the hall, once, twice, three times. And Jon heard Samwell Tarly shout, "I know that bird! That's Lord Mormont's raven!"
The raven landed on the table nearest Jon. "Snow," it cawed. It was an old bird, dirty and bedraggled. "Snow," it said again, "Snow, snow, snow." It walked to the end of the table, spread its wings again, and flew to Jon's shoulder.
quote:Bloodraven telling Samwell to obey Jon's command to become a maester. It could be theorized that Bloodraven knows Samwell has a role to play in doing such:
"Dead," said the raven. It was one of the bird's favorite words. "Dead, dead, dead."
quote:Bloodraven is constantly "talking" to Jon through the raven:
"Obey." Mormont's raven flapped its great black wings.
quote:On multiple occasions Jon awakens from prophetic dreams with the raven on his chest. It can be assumed that Bloodraven is influencing/speaking to him through these dreams:
"Did you follow me as well?" Jon reached to shoo the bird away but ended up stroking its feathers. The raven cocked its eye at him. "Snow," it muttered, bobbing its head knowingly.
quote:No explanation necessary:
...and woke with a raven pecking at his chest. "Snow," the bird cried. Jon swatted at it. The raven shrieked its displeasure and flapped up to a bedpost to glare down balefully at him through the predawn gloom.
quote:
He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont's raven muttered across the room. "Corn," the bird said, and, "King," and, "Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow." That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall.
Jon doesn't even know his lineage. Jeor would know only if Bloodraven told him somehow.
Redline - How are they not discussing Jon as King? The bolded passage has Jeor flat out say "I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord." They are talking about Jon as king, then Jeor goes on to analogize Ameon's opportunity to be king with Jon's opportunity after Robb declared himself King in the North.
Also, Jeor appears to be quite the raven-whisperer if he can infer the raven's intent from the few times the raven says "King" in front of Jon, which only supports the idea that Jeor and Bloodraven have been in contact for some time.
Again, this all circle's back to why Jeor choose to give away his alleged family heirloom, which is priceless. It makes a lot more sense if Bloodraven is influencing the decision or even the reason the decision was made.
Redline - How are they not discussing Jon as King? The bolded passage has Jeor flat out say "I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord." They are talking about Jon as king, then Jeor goes on to analogize Ameon's opportunity to be king with Jon's opportunity after Robb declared himself King in the North.
Also, Jeor appears to be quite the raven-whisperer if he can infer the raven's intent from the few times the raven says "King" in front of Jon, which only supports the idea that Jeor and Bloodraven have been in contact for some time.
Again, this all circle's back to why Jeor choose to give away his alleged family heirloom, which is priceless. It makes a lot more sense if Bloodraven is influencing the decision or even the reason the decision was made.
Remind me again...
Bloodraven is supposed to be one of the Blackfyre *******s right?
Bloodraven is supposed to be one of the Blackfyre *******s right?
quote:
Remind me again...
Bloodraven is supposed to be one of the Blackfyre *******s right?
He was one of the Great *******s but not a Blackfyre. He was Aegon IV's son with a Blackwood. Daemon Blackfyre was his half-brother. Brynden was loyal to the Targaryens when the Blackfyres and Bittersteel rebelled
Bloodraven (Brynden Rivers) was one of the great *******s who was legitimized on their father's deathbed. That legitimization plus giving the sword Blackfyre to one of the *******s sons instead of the trueborn one is what started the Blackfyre rebellions. The ******* son with Blackfyre started his own house - House Blackfyre - and proclaimed himself King, thus starting the Blackfyre v. Targaryen rebellions. They were all targaryens, but from different branches of the house.
So yes, the sword we have been discussing the last couple pages is a large part of why the Blackfyre rebellions happened in the first place, because many believed the sword symbolized the monarchy. Which makes it clever and poetic for Jon Snow, the rightful targaryen king to have the sword that symbolizes that house, even if he doesn't know his lineage or what sword he is holding.
So yes, the sword we have been discussing the last couple pages is a large part of why the Blackfyre rebellions happened in the first place, because many believed the sword symbolized the monarchy. Which makes it clever and poetic for Jon Snow, the rightful targaryen king to have the sword that symbolizes that house, even if he doesn't know his lineage or what sword he is holding.
We saw him in person on the show?
quote:
We saw him in person on the show?
quote:You are mistaken. Jeor took the Black prior to the death of Jorah's first wife and that took place before the Greyjoy Rebellion. The Tourney at Lannisport (where Jorah met Lynnesse) was held specifically to celebrate victory of the Balon.
It is never clearly stated when Joer took the black in relation to when Jorah was found to be a slaver, but lots of indications that Jorah was acting as ruler of Bear Island when that occured, so Joer would have been gone to the Watch at that point in time.
quote:
Still, the island suited me well enough, and I never lacked for women. I had my share of fishwives and crofter's daughters, before and after I was wed. I married young, to a bride of my father's choosing, a Glover of Deepwood Motte. Ten years we were wed, or near enough as makes no matter. She was a plain-faced woman, but not unkind. I suppose I came to love her after a fashion, though our relations were dutiful rather than passionate. Three times she miscarried while trying to give me an heir. The last time she never recovered. She died not long after."
Dany put her hand on his and gave his fingers a squeeze. "I am sorry for you, truly."
Ser Jorah nodded. "By then my father had taken the black, so I was Lord of Bear Island in my own right. I had no lack of marriage offers, but before I could reach a decision Lord Balon Greyjoy rose in rebellion against the Usurper, and Ned Stark called his banners to help his friend Robert.
quote:quote:Good Lord.
His son never had the sword.
His father didn't take the black until his son was banished...
Jeor Mormont (the Old Bear) took the Black (we are never told why), and Jorah assumed the lordship of Bear Island. Because Jorah was now "Lord Mormont," Longclaw was left with him when Jeor headed to Castle Black.
Jorah took a wife from a rich and powerful Southern family (well above him socially) because he impressed her by winning a Tourney. He brought her back to Bear Island, but she did not like it because it was isolated and rustic.
Jorah spent all of his money buying things for her, importing singers and cooks, trying to keep the spoiled little (euphemism for female dog) happy, bankrupting himself in the process.
Eventually, in a desperate effort to get more money to buy stuff for his "Lady," Jorah chose to sell two poachers into slavery in Essos, rather than sending them to the Wall. Eddard Stark learned of this and sentenced Jorah to death.
Jorah fled with his Lady, but had enough honor left in him to leave the heirloom sword for his family.
Joer's sister (Maege Mormont) assumed the rule of Bear Island, but she sent Longclaw to Jeor on the Wall.
I haven't read any books released after dance of dragons. Which book was this released in?
quote:bits and pieces here and there. Most of it jorah told to Dany in the Red Wastequote:I haven't read any books released after dance of dragons. Which book was this released in?quote:
If the Raven is anythijng other than a normal raven, I will be shocked.
quote:
If the Raven is anythijng other than a normal raven, I will be shocked.
Yeah my skepticism is skewed from Harry Potter. I was convinced the Phoenix in dumbledores office named ****es was really snape who was a animagi like Harry's father and his classmates Sirius, Remus and Peter Pettigrew. Went so far as to research and snape and ****es were never present in his office at the same time. Turns out he was just a very emotional and well informed Phoenix.
quote:Lol TexAgs censors Fawkes.quote:
If the Raven is anythijng other than a normal raven, I will be shocked.
Yeah my skepticism is skewed from Harry Potter. I was convinced the Phoenix in dumbledores office named ****es was really snape who was a animagi like Harry's father and his classmates Sirius, Remus and Peter Pettigrew. Went so far as to research and snape and ****es were never present in his office at the same time. Turns out he was just a very emotional and well informed Phoenix.
That's hysterical.
Well **** me I guess.
Well **** me I guess.
quote:That line is Jon speaking to Jeor Mormont. Why would Jeor call Jon "my lord," instead of Jon saying that to the Lord Commander?
Redline - How are they not discussing Jon as King? The bolded passage has Jeor flat out say "I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord."
B/C right after that line is stated, Jeor replies, "The realm has three kings already, and that's two too many for my liking."
You have your quotes out of order...and they aren't talking about Jon being a king.
When Jon is given the sword by Mormont, doesn't he have thoughts about how Ice is the sword he covets since it was his father's, himself connecting the receiving a VS blade with his bloodline?
I also don't remember, does Mormont carry the sword before he gives it to Jon?
I also don't remember, does Mormont carry the sword before he gives it to Jon?
Ah. I had that part backwards. However, I still think there is ample textual evidence to say this raven is connected to Bloodraven. We know Bloodraven can warg, so why is it hard to believe he was warging into Mormont's raven?
In Bran's dream with the three-eyed crow(BR), the crow asks him if he has any corn. That's a coincidental link between Bloodraven and Mormont's raven which is constantly asking for corn.
When the wight attacked Mormont, the raven started sqwaking "Burn" i.e. exactly what Jon needed to do to kill the wight and save his life. That's huge and can't be explained by simply repeating words.
After Jon has the dream where he is holding a red flaming sword and fighting the undead, he wakes up with the raven on his chest. This implies BR has some connection to the dreams. Dreams have been sent to other characters in this story too, so it isn't that unusual. See Quaithe & Dany. Also, the raven then says Jon's full name and flat out calls him "King."
The Longclaw = Blackfyre theory might not be true, but Mormont's raven having special significance and/or tied to Bloodraven is almost canon.
In Bran's dream with the three-eyed crow(BR), the crow asks him if he has any corn. That's a coincidental link between Bloodraven and Mormont's raven which is constantly asking for corn.
When the wight attacked Mormont, the raven started sqwaking "Burn" i.e. exactly what Jon needed to do to kill the wight and save his life. That's huge and can't be explained by simply repeating words.
After Jon has the dream where he is holding a red flaming sword and fighting the undead, he wakes up with the raven on his chest. This implies BR has some connection to the dreams. Dreams have been sent to other characters in this story too, so it isn't that unusual. See Quaithe & Dany. Also, the raven then says Jon's full name and flat out calls him "King."
The Longclaw = Blackfyre theory might not be true, but Mormont's raven having special significance and/or tied to Bloodraven is almost canon.
The raven also plays a part in Jon Snow getting elected Lord Commander.
quote:Wouldn't all trained ravens, if they could talk, ask their human masters for corn?
In Bran's dream with the three-eyed crow(BR), the crow asks him if he has any corn. That's a coincidental link between Bloodraven and Mormont's raven which is constantly asking for corn.
quote:
When the wight attacked Mormont, the raven started sqwaking "Burn" i.e. exactly what Jon needed to do to kill the wight and save his life. That's huge and can't be explained by simply repeating words.
Bloodraven knows that fire kills wights:
quote:He says burn after Jon picks up the lamp. Could it be possible that the bird associates flame with the word 'burn?'
Quote:Jon tried to shout, but his voice was gone. Staggering to his feet, he kicked the arm away and snatched the lamp from the Old Bear's fingers. The flame flickered and almost died. "Burn!" the raven cawed. "Burn, burn, burn!"
quote:If Jon is AA reborn, like many believe, he won't ever become a king. Also, one has to first believe the connection b/w the bird and bloodraven to consider this encounter as implication that bloodraven is connected to the dreams. Does bloodraven also control Jon's wolf dreams or Arya's?
After Jon has the dream where he is holding a red flaming sword and fighting the undead, he wakes up with the raven on his chest. This implies BR has some connection to the dreams. Dreams have been sent to other characters in this story too, so it isn't that unusual. See Quaithe & Dany. Also, the raven then says Jon's full name and flat out calls him "King."
quote:Not even close to "almost canon"
The Longclaw = Blackfyre theory might not be true, but Mormont's raven having special significance and/or tied to Bloodraven is almost canon.
quote:
Wouldn't all trained ravens, if they could talk, ask their human masters for corn?
No. Maester Aemon tells Jon that that Mormont's raven is odd and that most ravens would want meat or something like that.
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Harry Stone
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