Pretty solid episode compared to the first two. Many storylines seem to be similar to the books with the obvious exception of Litlefinger and Sansa. My biggest question is do they really let Sansa marry Ramsay or does everything happen before that? Thinking of how much everyone would hate it makes me think it could very well happen.

I was surprised that Tyrion's story moved so fast. So much for that Aegon guy

I just wish Aria was having her wolf dreams.

So Sansa is marrying Ramsay?


ugh

yeah not a fan of making it Sansa to marry Ramsay (however the whole fake Arya thing was stupid too in the books). we will see..maybe Sansa will wreck shop in the north and take revenge on the Frey's and Bolton's in Lady Stonehearts absence. she seemed to get on board pretty quick after Littlefinger alluded to that.


The Tyrion thing doesn't bother me...there was a lot of time wasted running around in the book before Jorah captures Tyrion...i'm fine with them getting on with it.


what about Tommen and Margaery....they never cosummated it in the books, right??? how old is he like 11??? and he gets to bang Margaery....life is not fair.

ramsay's side piece was pissed. prediction time: will ramsay's ho try to kill sansa or be part of the force who helps her escape winterfell with theon?

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what about Tommen and Margaery....they never cosummated it in the books, right??? how old is he like 11??? and he gets to bang Margaery....life is not fair.

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Their marriage in the books was conducted despite his very young age simply to secure the alliance with the Tyrells. If I recall correctly, Tommen could barely put the cloak around her shoulders. I'm not sure how old he is supposed to be in the show, but I guess it's considered old enough. It'll also make any power struggles between he and Cersei more legit.

I think they did a good job of referencing what Sansa will likely do to the Boltons based on what the serving woman said when she prepared Sansa's quarters - the North remembers. It's the same thing Lord Manderly tells Davos Seaworth; I'd say Sansa will make a statement, perhaps at her wedding to Ramsay or shortly thereafter when all of her father's old banner men come to swear allegiance, and that will spell the end of Ramsay and Roose, perhaps with Theon knifing Ramsay for revenge and to ease his pain for what he did/didn't do to Bran and Rickon.

And if she's widowed and needs an ally by marriage to help her rule the North, well hello Peter Baelish, Lord of Harrenhal and the Vale.

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Theon knifing Ramsay for revenge and to ease his pain for what he did/didn't do to Bran and Rickon.

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Would be the best revenge kill in the show

Nah I think they will just replace her in Jeyne's place and continue the "**** on Sansa" routine. Ramsay will be doing awful things to her and Theon will take her to Stannis, thereby giving him control of a Stark for the north. And unlike the book it will be a real Stark. There was an article a while back that said that this season will have the darkest thing that has ever happened to Sansa and it wasn't in the book. I think putting Sansa in Jeyne's place would cover both.

Sansa being tormented by Ramsay will be just awful.

Will we see the giant in Castle Black?

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I was surprised that Tyrion's story moved so fast. So much for that Aegon guy

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Yep, pretty safe indication that that whole subplot with Aegon invading Westeros is totally meaningless. I guess Greyscale can't be very important either.

Well you would know wouldn't you George?

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Sansa being tormented by Ramsay will be just awful.

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I'm curious if that's how they will show her growth..That she "plays the game" this time and gets revenge...

I don't see this ending well for Ramsay.

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I suspect Sansa will get tortured some but I sure hope she ends up killing Ramsey.

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If it means she gets naked I'm all for a little torture!!

but whatever happens to Ramsay can't be terrible enough...will be the most celebrated GoT death since Joffrey.

I haven't read the books in a while, but is any of this with Arya in the books? I don't remember how far along this story line they made it.

I think in the books Arya goes through some sort of "tryouts", the old guy asks her to blend in around town and eavesdrop on conversations. Essentially, practicing at being a faceless man. I do remember her being conflicted by giving up on her quest to kill all the people and fully accept her training.

We still have a ways to go with her.

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Remember she goes blind for a while and she plays the lying game with the girl. She also begins accepting missions and kills a couple of people. I'm not sure if she has started adopting new faces or not though.

Total WAG - could we have Sansa Stoneheart?! That would be plenty dark.

If I recall Arya's last chapter that is in print in the books has her just beginning to learn how to change faces.

If Sansa marries and consummates with Ramsay I will be really upset. That puts a ton of holes in the book story and honestly I think it will upset a lot of viewers who already didn't like the endless Theon torture to see it turn in to Sansa torture. I have a feeling they are going to do something different. I think Sansa will be kidnapped/saved by either Brienne or some other group prior to the wedding or before the consummation. Were those 3 women that they focused on at the end of the scene Ramsay's? I was thinking that might be a setup of the Spearwives storyline from the book, though there is no Mance now but that's a minor break compared to other things they are doing. Maybe it will be some "The North Remembers" plot with someone taking the place of Manderly. I could also see LF getting wise to Ramsay being a psycho and pulling Sansa out.

They could just go through with it though. It's just sloppy. They have left a ton of loose ends and made a lot of story from the book either changed or irrelevant and they have done it fast.

The change in Margery banging Tommen is significant as well. That technically means that Tommen is "of age" and should have full authority and yet Cersei is still either Regent (which doesn't make sense) or Tommen just lets her run things even with Margery there in his ear and certainly aware that Cersei is now effectively powerless. Once again it is just sloppy because the logic trail doesn't fit.

Loved Jon's scenes and the Janos Slynt beheading. Very well done.

They are definitely moving Tyrion at breakneck speed and cut out a ton of story for him.

I like how they are handling Arya and the House of Black and White. Looks like they are going to take their time and develop that story.

Pretty sure her last chapter was her saying "F this crap" and going to get her sword b/c she's leaving.

Arya? I don't think that's right. She doesn't amount to much as of the end of Book 5, though.

IIRC, she kills a a Nights Watchmen that abandons Samwell and Gilly on the way to the Citadel. Because he abandoned his oath and was whoring around in Braavos. I think after that is when she gets blinded, for being Arya and taking vengeance.

But she gets her sight back and does some more training. But as of the end of Book 5, I don't think that training is done...



Side note, when will Sam be sent on his quest with Gilly? Maybe not til the end of the season, since those chapters were also boring. I don't wanna see that dude have intercourse.

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I was surprised that Tyrion's story moved so fast. So much for that Aegon guy

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Yep, pretty safe indication that that whole subplot with Aegon invading Westeros is totally meaningless. I guess Greyscale can't be very important either.

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tyrion had a line about praying to save themselves from grayscale last night; did anyone else think this was a nod to the readers in some way?

Hmm..it's been so long since I read it, I could have sworn she decided to leave. I just looked though, and I think her last chapter ends with her becoming an acolyte and about to begin her "apprenticeship."

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I was surprised that Tyrion's story moved so fast. So much for that Aegon guy

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Yep, pretty safe indication that that whole subplot with Aegon invading Westeros is totally meaningless. I guess Greyscale can't be very important either.

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tyrion had a line about praying to save themselves from grayscale last night; did anyone else think this was a nod to the readers in some way?

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Considering they sort of made it a big deal with Stannis's daughter in that first episode, it's possible the "men of stone" have some part in the tv show along the way. I won't expect it, but I won't be surprised if it happens.

Alliser Thorne is so much more likable in the show. I loved Jon made him first ranger and then he completely abandoned Janos Slynt

I've come to my own conclusion that the only things that really seem of consequence anymore are:

Tier 1

• What happens at the Wall/John Snow/Nights Watch/The Others
• What happens with Dany and her dragons in Essos, and how that will play in to the above

Tier 2

• Bran
• Arya (which may still end up inconsequential but at least the series is pretty closely following the books)

Dorne doesn't seem to matter.
The Ironborn don't seem to matter.
Manderley doesn't seem to matter.
Aegon doesn't seem to matter.
Quentin Martel obviously didn't matter.
The Riverlands doesn't seem to matter.

Sansa, Jamie, Brienne, Bron, and Littlefinger are being used as a clean up, to omit or alter characters and story lines and just keep the series moving forward and close out story arcs. Granted, Kings Landing is following the books pretty closely but at this point, without an alliance (Dorne/Aegon/Varys) forming to move against the Lannisters/Tyrells, the happenings in Kings Landing seem almost inconsequential.

I'm not griping, its actually pretty fun to have some surprises. But they (they being Martin and HBO) told us that they would go different paths but end up in the same place and they obviously were not joking. And as much as I have enjoyed the books, it does leave the reader wondering what all the fuss was about. In the end it is going to be dragon against The Others, fire vs. ice, and the rest was just thousands of pages of glorious characters and detail. IMO of course.

Here's where I am at this point.

The show is far superior to the books. GRRM created a fantastic universe and some truly amazing characters, but he's working so hard to be clever that he's tripping over his one pen too much as the series develops in print. The show is doing a much better job of "editing" GRRM's narrative than he ever did.

That being said, I'm not having trouble keeping things straight in my head. It's like the movie Looper where you start getting new memories that conflict with old memories and drive you a little insane. Can we do a run down of the story lines that HBO has presumably cut that appear important in the books? I'm having trouble remembering them all.

The big ones off the top of my head are:

• Fake Arya marries Ramsay
• Fake Mance dies at Castle Black
• Lady Stoneheart and Brienne
• Aegon and Varys + Tyrion
• Jon legitimized by Robb
• Pretty much everything with the Ironborn story line

Anyone else feel like Jon was kind of cocky as Lord Commander? I think they were setting him up for his fail of going to rescue "arya" but probably now Sansa from the Boltons, and getting knifed.

Something i was thinking about is that they've continued on the show what is seen in the books - Roose Bolton is always wearing his armor, no matter the situation - he had all of it on while walking the walls of Winterfell with Baelish even. If he's attending his own son's wedding with Sansa, seems he'd wear something else, as would Ramsay, which would finally have them exposed. If Sansa goes visiting her father's bannermen when they show up for the wedding, you could even postulate a reverse Red Wedding is going to happen - where Sansa interrupts the ceremony to declare the Boltons traitors to the North and it's Roose & Ramsay getting knifed by men loyal to Winterfell, the Vale / Riverrun or a huge fight occuring right when Stannis arrives with his army.

Looks like we were typing at the same time.

What about Jon's parentage? That's of critical importance to the books (one would think, anyway), but can you even get there without a Tower of Joy flashback? I'm really hoping they do some of that stuff with Bran and the tree's memory.

Then there's other stuff the show explicitly showed us that makes me think it's still important. We were reminded last night that Thoros of Myr was a priest of the red god, and they explicitly showed us that he was able to bring people back to life. We also know that Melisandre is a priestess of the red god trotting around with Stannis. And now they add a scene to tell us that the people in Volantis are worshiping both the red god and calling Dany the savior of the people, linking those two up.