They also didn't have the part about her friend who was told she would die and did, thus giving Maggie's prophecies legitimacy. I'm expecting massive departure from the books this season, to the point where half the screen time is new stuff. That's about where they were at points last season. I'm fine with that btw, I'm kind of looking at the show and books as two different interpretations of the story.
**Official Game of Thrones: Season 5 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)**
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quote:yeah i'm fine with it too....
They also didn't have the part about her friend who was told she would die and did, thus giving Maggie's prophecies legitimacy. I'm expecting massive departure from the books this season, to the point where half the screen time is new stuff. That's about where they were at points last season. I'm fine with that btw, I'm kind of looking at the show and books as two different interpretations of the story.
about the friend - wasn't really important at the time where we saw the prophecy because we already knew what frog lady said was true about her becoming queen and her 3 children so the legitmacy was there. and they did not have to add another scene (screen time) just to kill the friend which would have been a bit out of context.
i think their purpose here in showing it was just to drive this seasons primary narrative for Cersei which is framing Margaery Tyrell for adultery.
so the part about little brother killin gher is just not central to this season. perhaps we will see another flashback of that scene later (and they already filmed it)...or perhaps that will just be told from Cersei's point of view but we will know what she is referring to having seen this flashback.
that and the killing of Mance were the only distractions to me.....but anyway...on with the show....
quote:It is stuff like this that makes me love the ASOIAF series.
volanqar means little brother - which she thinks means Tyrion because she takes "little" literally, but may in fact mean Jaime who was born after her or stannis who was the little brother of her king robert.
I dunno where they plan on going with Mance, and it doesn't seem like his role is too necessary anyway, but they did throw in several glances between he and (I guess Rattleshirt?) that would look meaningful on a second viewing if they did go that way.
That was Tormund.
i would be surprised if they pulled some trickery and later told us there was a swap with someone we haven't seen....i think the last time Rattleshirt was on the TV show was early in season 3...if they were going to swap him with Mance I would think he would have been around in the season 4 ending at the wall and last nights episode (at least seen there).
if Mance is not central to the ongoing story and just dies later in the books anyway then he isn't necessary from the show point of view any more - several others could be sent to rescue the fake Arya from Ramsay. and you don't have to pay him when a lesser character can do it (or they leave out that wild goose chase completely too).
if Mance is not central to the ongoing story and just dies later in the books anyway then he isn't necessary from the show point of view any more - several others could be sent to rescue the fake Arya from Ramsay. and you don't have to pay him when a lesser character can do it (or they leave out that wild goose chase completely too).
So where is Littlefinger taking Sansa?
Even though I've read the books, I tend to see things from a show point of view. From what I recall, Rattleshirt only showed up briefly when Jon was captured by the wildlings - bringing him back, and any mention of magic or glamours or any of that without any real hints (I was paying close attention to Melisandre) would be really, really out of the blue. Mance is dead.
Also, as I recall the books had Stannis ask for Jon's help in uniting the Northern lords under Stannis. In the show version, Stannis asks for the wildlings themselves. I believe Jon had the idea of having the wildlings join forces with the Watch to combat the white walkers - that may still happen but it's skipping a lot of Stannis northern unification, at least for now. (And I may be wrong on the order of things but I think that's correct)
Honestly, I much prefer the way the show does things, for the most part. It's not perfect, but it beats having 30 chapters of Brienne wandering around the countryside, killing antagonists like Biter when it makes a bit more sense for Arya to put a sword in him. Although now I'm not quite sure what Brienne will do for a full year - new content, I suppose.
Next episode should introduce the new Martells, if I had to guess. Excellent....
Also, as I recall the books had Stannis ask for Jon's help in uniting the Northern lords under Stannis. In the show version, Stannis asks for the wildlings themselves. I believe Jon had the idea of having the wildlings join forces with the Watch to combat the white walkers - that may still happen but it's skipping a lot of Stannis northern unification, at least for now. (And I may be wrong on the order of things but I think that's correct)
Honestly, I much prefer the way the show does things, for the most part. It's not perfect, but it beats having 30 chapters of Brienne wandering around the countryside, killing antagonists like Biter when it makes a bit more sense for Arya to put a sword in him. Although now I'm not quite sure what Brienne will do for a full year - new content, I suppose.
Next episode should introduce the new Martells, if I had to guess. Excellent....
quote:
So where is Littlefinger taking Sansa?
That was my biggest question from this episode
quote:
So where is Littlefinger taking Sansa?
Does this thread allow leak spoilers? Because there are some decent shake ups from the books.
iirc the last thing we get from the Sansa story in the book was the vale prepping for winter and dropping robyn off to be a man. Where the TV show has gone with Sansa is very different with the politics of of westeros.
I can spoil it, or you can wait 3 weeks.
This thread allows spoilers from the books, and facts/opinions/discussions about episodes that have already aired.
I was even ok with set pics and stuff, but I'd rather not talk about the leaked episodes. I want to watch them in real time.
quote:agreed...funny that we have to police this thread now...the spoilers thread.
I was even ok with set pics and stuff, but I'd rather not talk about the leaked episodes. I want to watch them in real time.
but it is specifically the BOOK SPOILERS thread....nothing about leaked episodes please.
pretty good yes, some complex intertwined lines....
there should be some sort of stalker/obsessed link in a few places.....
Petyr to both Catelyn and Sansa
Tyrion and Shae who is absent anyway
Oberyn and Ellia Martell who is also missing
Grey Worm and Missandei who is also missing
adding who killed who might be awesome also - but might be really complex too
there should be some sort of stalker/obsessed link in a few places.....
Petyr to both Catelyn and Sansa
Tyrion and Shae who is absent anyway
Oberyn and Ellia Martell who is also missing
Grey Worm and Missandei who is also missing
adding who killed who might be awesome also - but might be really complex too
I love that the shadow baby is included.
quote:Same here. There was already some discussion a few pages back about where Sansa may be going based on the set pics. That's all fine by me, but I'd prefer that the SHOW not but spoiled as it is departing further and further from the books.
I was even ok with set pics and stuff, but I'd rather not talk about the leaked episodes. I want to watch them in real time.
quote:
Even though I've read the books, I tend to see things from a show point of view. From what I recall, Rattleshirt only showed up briefly when Jon was captured by the wildlings - bringing him back, and any mention of magic or glamours or any of that without any real hints (I was paying close attention to Melisandre) would be really, really out of the blue. Mance is dead.
Agreed that he is likely just dead. Fake Mance was supposed to be screaming and maybe even said he wasn't Mance if I'm remembering correctly. This Mance gave a speech and chose to face the flames.
Also, as I recall the books had Stannis ask for Jon's help in uniting the Northern lords under Stannis. In the show version, Stannis asks for the wildlings themselves. I believe Jon had the idea of having the wildlings join forces with the Watch to combat the white walkers - that may still happen but it's skipping a lot of Stannis northern unification, at least for now. (And I may be wrong on the order of things but I think that's correct)
Correct. I was hoping he was going to offer him legitimacy and Winterfell like in the books. Maybe it'll just be coming later though.
Honestly, I much prefer the way the show does things, for the most part. It's not perfect, but it beats having 30 chapters of Brienne wandering around the countryside, killing antagonists like Biter when it makes a bit more sense for Arya to put a sword in him. Although now I'm not quite sure what Brienne will do for a full year - new content, I suppose.
I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I think that is just GRRM's style. I think that in the same way not everyone has a happy ending, not every quest or story arc is going to work out or be exciting. I trust that there is a point to everything though, even those that people tend to hate like Quentyn's failed quest.
Next episode should introduce the new Martells, if I had to guess. Excellent....
Kind of underwhelming episode.
Yeah I'm not really getting my hopes up for these episodes, just because, unlike the Viper and the Mountain, or Tyrion's trial, or the Red Wedding......... I don't really know of a whole lot that happens. Especially at the start of each season. I expect things to be good, but not necessarily "call your friends and talk about it" good or exciting.
I knew this point in the series would happen in terms of momentum. The books have so many character arcs that either complete or hit a major turning point in Book 3 that it made Book 4 and even 5 seem pedestrian because they are mainly about building up new arcs as much as anything. Thus you have to be really in to the story and have tempered expectations about non stop action. For TV watchers that's a much harder sell because they aren't as invested and have shorter attention spans, they also can't just keep reading but have to wait a week for the next episode.
The show is going to counter this by going further away from the books so they don't lose their audience. That's good and bad, the good part being that it will be more engaging and the bad part being that the overall story will suffer from being simplified. At least the show is HBO's cash cow so they essentially will have an unlimited budget to throw out some great special effects and big scenes.
The show is going to counter this by going further away from the books so they don't lose their audience. That's good and bad, the good part being that it will be more engaging and the bad part being that the overall story will suffer from being simplified. At least the show is HBO's cash cow so they essentially will have an unlimited budget to throw out some great special effects and big scenes.
Book 5 is worse than Book 4. The Greyjoy and Martell stuff is very enjoyable, it's just that you get it at a time when you're desperate to know what's going on in the lives of Tyrion, Jon Snow, Arya, etc. The last 500 pages of Storm of Swords are some of the most brilliant, breath-taking fantasy ever written, things can't possibly continue at that speed.
I wish in hindsight he could have introduced Dorne and The Iron Islands more in Books 2 and/or 3 so we didn't feel unceremoniously dumped in Dorne / Pyke to start AFFC, but that's the breaks.
I wish in hindsight he could have introduced Dorne and The Iron Islands more in Books 2 and/or 3 so we didn't feel unceremoniously dumped in Dorne / Pyke to start AFFC, but that's the breaks.
It took me a while to warm to the Dorne/Iron Islands stuff in Book 4 but eventually I did get to the point when I saw an "Asha" or "Arianne" chapter I didn't sigh in frustration. I agree they would have been better served by being introduced sooner somehow as it was just very painful to go from so much excitement in Book 3 to feeling like starting over with new plotlines. The Iron Islands stuff developed nicely and some of the Dorne stuff was good, some not so much.
The other thing that was hard to stomach was how Jon and Dany seemed like such idiots for the most part as they were painfully learning how to lead and making mistake after mistake. Brienne was also pretty painful with so many chapters and so little action. The worst of course was the Quentin storyline that moved so slow and then he just ends up getting rejected by Dany and made in to dragon fodder.
Actually strike that, the worst was how much Martin seemed determined to go in to a 2 paragraph description of every meal and how greasy the blood sausage was. I have read most of the WoW leaked chapters though and they are promising. It seems like Martin is finally ready to start bringing things together and having an endgame.
The other thing that was hard to stomach was how Jon and Dany seemed like such idiots for the most part as they were painfully learning how to lead and making mistake after mistake. Brienne was also pretty painful with so many chapters and so little action. The worst of course was the Quentin storyline that moved so slow and then he just ends up getting rejected by Dany and made in to dragon fodder.
Actually strike that, the worst was how much Martin seemed determined to go in to a 2 paragraph description of every meal and how greasy the blood sausage was. I have read most of the WoW leaked chapters though and they are promising. It seems like Martin is finally ready to start bringing things together and having an endgame.
quote:
It took me a while to warm to the Dorne/Iron Islands stuff in Book 4 but eventually I did get to the point when I saw an "Asha" or "Arianne" chapter I didn't sigh in frustration. I agree they would have been better served by being introduced sooner somehow as it was just very painful to go from so much excitement in Book 3 to feeling like starting over with new plotlines. The Iron Islands stuff developed nicely and some of the Dorne stuff was good, some not so much.
The other thing that was hard to stomach was how Jon and Dany seemed like such idiots for the most part as they were painfully learning how to lead and making mistake after mistake. Brienne was also pretty painful with so many chapters and so little action. The worst of course was the Quentin storyline that moved so slow and then he just ends up getting rejected by Dany and made in to dragon fodder.
Actually strike that, the worst was how much Martin seemed determined to go in to a 2 paragraph description of every meal and how greasy the blood sausage was. I have read most of the WoW leaked chapters though and they are promising. It seems like Martin is finally ready to start bringing things together and having an endgame.
I got to the point that whenever I got to a Brienne chapter I had to take a break from reading for a few days because they were so painfully boring.
quote:
My knowledge of the back story of Dornish politics and family relations is something that I wish I could trade for a few minutes of entertainment. The same can be said about the Drowned God and his many followers.
quote:
I wish in hindsight he could have introduced Dorne and The Iron Islands more in Books 2 and/or 3 so we didn't feel unceremoniously dumped in Dorne / Pyke to start AFFC, but that's the breaks.
Completely agree.
As to the Books 4 and 5 storylines, I had the same reaction as many on here during my first read of the series. I am just wrapping up Book 4 during a second read of the series, and it is a much different and much more enjoyable experience. I'm using the World of Ice and Fire app for maps, character histories, etc. and am connecting lots of dots that I missed the first time through. Will probably finish Book 4 tonight and can't wait to get into Book 5. Hopefully, leading up to a fall release for Book 6.
quote:I've basically had the exact same experience. I'm on my second round of reading and am in book 5 currently. Book 4 was much better than I remember it being. I'd also add that book 2 was worse at times than I remember (a bit like books 4 & 5 the first time). Book 3 just can't be beat by what is out currently (but hopefully will be eclipsed by 6 & 7). I at least knew going into books 4 & 5 that people were disappointed with them, so I didn't think they were that bad. I also got to read them one after the other which meant I was waiting years to find out what happened to the other characters.quote:
I wish in hindsight he could have introduced Dorne and The Iron Islands more in Books 2 and/or 3 so we didn't feel unceremoniously dumped in Dorne / Pyke to start AFFC, but that's the breaks.
Completely agree.
As to the Books 4 and 5 storylines, I had the same reaction as many on here during my first read of the series. I am just wrapping up Book 4 during a second read of the series, and it is a much different and much more enjoyable experience. I'm using the World of Ice and Fire app for maps, character histories, etc. and am connecting lots of dots that I missed the first time through. Will probably finish Book 4 tonight and can't wait to get into Book 5. Hopefully, leading up to a fall release for Book 6.
Euron and Doran Martell are some of my favorite characters now, so I'll be disappointed if Euron is left out of the show.
quote:This makes a massive difference, as does all of the information available on the net/apps. GRRM drops names everywhere, but there are so many characters, it's easy to lose track when you have to wait four years between books.
I also got to read them one after the other which meant I was waiting years to find out what happened to the other characters.
I highly recommend doing a simultaneous, chronological readthrough of books 4 and 5.
soooooo great to be able to space out all the crazy Cersei chapters and boring Brienne chapters with the likes of Jon snow and Tyrion chapters.
soooooo great to be able to space out all the crazy Cersei chapters and boring Brienne chapters with the likes of Jon snow and Tyrion chapters.
I didn't mind the world building of 4, it just seemed very tangential to the main story.
Book 5 I had problems with because it made Jon and Dany so damn unlikable as a product of them having to sit in one place while everyone else's storylines advanced towards them.
The show can "fix" the places where the books were weak. I hope it does.
Book 5 I had problems with because it made Jon and Dany so damn unlikable as a product of them having to sit in one place while everyone else's storylines advanced towards them.
The show can "fix" the places where the books were weak. I hope it does.
Have we seen Old Man Greyjoy bite it in the show yet? Or has it even been mentioned?
Neither
That's what I thought. I swear I either saw some graphic art or had a vivid dream of that scene, him walking between the towers on a shaky ass wooden bridge and a huge storm blowing outside and somehow his overcoat gets bellowed out and he gets ripped off the bridge and dashed upon the rocks below.
I have read the books twice and on the second time thru it was so much more enjoyable to just skip the Brienne chapters knowing it was going nowhere.
I just started listening to book 5 again and it made watching episode 1 kind of interesting to see the things they changed.
I saw it mentioned on this thread "Tyrion Queen maker" plot. What exactly is this referencing ?
I just started listening to book 5 again and it made watching episode 1 kind of interesting to see the things they changed.
I saw it mentioned on this thread "Tyrion Queen maker" plot. What exactly is this referencing ?
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