**Official Game of Thrones: Season 5 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)**

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OnlyForNow
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6:38p, 6/1/15
AG
The post about the swords was simply pointing out that valayerin steel wasn't made prior to X date and they fought the wws way before that date.
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The Dog Lord
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In reply to hunter2012 • 6:41p, 6/1/15
AG
quote:
quote:
"'There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. 'Never fear the darkness, Bran.' The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong.""


You can see the contrast to the Red Priestess and the "night is dark and full of terrors".

Therefore it is entirely possible that the WW are a separate faction/threat entirely.

Also seeing as how the Night's King lived after the wall was completed(to prevent another attack like the 1st WW invasion), so he couldn't have been in charge during the first invasion. Who do ya'll think is in charge of the WW, or are they merely a "force of nature" of sorts?
It's a good question. Maybe the Others actually do die but have a longer life span like the CotF. He could simply be the elder at this point in time. Maybe the Others decided to retreat after their defeat so long ago and never return, but he disagreed. He kills the leaders so that he can march south and try to become a king once again. All of this assumes that he is the Night's King from legend and HBO didn't just use the name because it sounds cool. I doubt they will really take the time to answer questions like that though, so we will probably have to wait for GRRM to tell us (if he does).
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hunter2012
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In reply to redline248 • 6:41p, 6/1/15
AG
quote:
Hunter, in regard to the 3 eyed raven, a couple thoughts:

1. The children and the Andals made peace, which resulted in no more trees cut down, the island of many faces being protected, etc. They've been biding their time for centuries?

2. It's pretty late in the game for the children to become a prominent threat, especially after establishing the danger of the walkers, the history of the children helping fight the walkers, etc.


I'm pretty sure their peace was with the First Men that were overthrown when the Andals crossed:

quote:
However, the Pact(with the First Men) couldn't withstand the coming of the Andals. A race of tall, fair-haired warriors, they attacked with fire and weapons of steel, slaughtering the Children of the Forest wherever they could find them, burning out their weirwood groves, hacking away at the faces of the Old Gods and spreading their own religion throughout the land. Centuries of war followed and the Andals conquered every kingdom in Westeros except for the Kingdom of the North.
Also:

quote:
As for the Children of the Forest, the few survivors were said to have fled far north and not seen again. Most assume they are long dead while some believe they never even existed. They now live only in song and legend, and in the faces of the weirwood trees.


LINK

So yes it is a long time to hold a grudge, but it seems like they can live for hundreds/thousands of years so their perspective of time is different.

I agree the the CotF are a minor threat at best, but if their chief ally/leader is a warg that can control people and dragons(seeing as how even Dany can't even control them anymore), I'd say that is a significant threat.

I also wonder if the WW can go into the caves or are they bound by the same magic that prevents wights.
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marble rye
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 6:43p, 6/1/15
AG
The first known dragon riding was 5000 years ago. We don't know how long dragons have existed. Maybe dragons fought WWs initially on their own bc they were turning everything into walking dead table scraps. We have seen they can make undead animals.
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marble rye
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6:53p, 6/1/15
AG
It was implied by Old Nan that the Night King was the 13th Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. He fell in love with a wight and brought her south of the wall to be his bride. She turned him into one of them, but not an undead. They also made sacrifices of other Nights Watchmen to The Great Other. Old Nan said he could be from Skagos, one other place, but is likely a Stark, and that he was defeated/dethroned by his brothermaybe that is why he is not dead, but has been absent and building an army.

There are also those that think that the WW that was in one of the episodes and surrounded by crows is actually Coldhands, bc he wears long black gloves and remnants of what could be construed as Night's Watch clothing, is also Benjen Stark (this WW has always acted in peace, non violent, etc. and in the books, got Bran to safety north of the wall)

Then you have the three-eyed crow summoning Bran Stark north of the wall and he is the chosen one/most powerful warg, etc? Maybe the Starks lineage has something of a "resistance" to WWs or the Great Other. Idk. So many possibilities.


EDIT: GRRM has stated on many occasions and in his manuscripts that Coldhands is not Benjen Stark.
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hunter2012
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In reply to The Dog Lord • 7:02p, 6/1/15
AG
It could be the WW realized they needed a human leader to conquer humans so they sent a female(common human weakness) to seduce him and eventually bring him back to wait for another Long Night.

Wiki if anyone wants the story of the book Night's King.
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hunter2012
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In reply to marble rye • 7:07p, 6/1/15
AG
Kill 1 Stark and 2 more shall take his place?

Head of the WW...Stark
Head of the Night's Watch...Stark
Head of the Children/Weirwoods...Stark
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redline248
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7:30p, 6/1/15
AG
Coldhands isn't a white walker.
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marble rye
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8:03p, 6/1/15
AG
How do you know for sure re: Coldhands?
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aggie93
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9:48p, 6/1/15
AG
quote:
Coldhands is dressed in the mottled blacks and greys of the Night's Watch with a scarf concealing his face. His hands are black and as cold as ice, and he rides a great elk. A flock of ravens flies under his command.[url=http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Coldhands#cite_note-Rasos46.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-0][1][/url] He does not breathe.[url=http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Coldhands#cite_note-Radwd4.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-1][2][/url]
Summer does not like the way Coldhands smells - "dead meat, dry blood, a faint whiff of rot. And cold. Cold all over".[url=http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Coldhands#cite_note-Radwd4.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-1][2][/url] Though Coldhands is often described as dead, but still alive, his eyes are described as black, in contrast of the light blue of wights and Others. Although he is thin and gaunt, his voice rattles
Coldhands is not a WW.
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agmatt06
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9:53p, 6/1/15
AG
I guess i need to read the books again, b/c there is so much I apparently have missed.
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10:08p, 6/1/15
marble rye
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10:40p, 6/1/15
AG
Who's to say he isnt a rogue WW? A Black Walker, if you will.
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W.C. Griffin '09
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10:41p, 6/1/15
AG
If Jon Snow dies and stays dead (I know it is unlikely) the Internet will explode
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redline248
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In reply to W.C. Griffin '09 • 10:46p, 6/1/15
AG
Martin might not finish his books before dying...and not of natural causes
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Saxsoon
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12:42a, 6/2/15
AG
I loved the fight scenes but I can honestly say that I enjoyed the Tyrion/Dany scenes even more
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Saxsoon
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12:45a, 6/2/15
AG
oh and the wildling lady that was the hot german in Pitch Perfect 2 was hot
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DTP02
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In reply to [removed post] • 7:24a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
He isn't s white walker but he is something supernatural as well.
I think he's a dead night's watchman being warged by the tree guy (Bloodraven?).
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tamusc
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In reply to DTP02 • 8:09a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
quote:
He isn't s white walker but he is something supernatural as well.
I think he's a dead night's watchman being warged by the tree guy (Bloodraven?).


Interesting theory.
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W.C. Griffin '09
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In reply to DTP02 • 8:17a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
quote:
He isn't s white walker but he is something supernatural as well.
I think he's a dead night's watchman being warged by the tree guy (Bloodraven?).

Maybe he is the wight for a separate faction of Others that opposes the main group...they are the other Others
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SpreadsheetAg
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In reply to redline248 • 9:31a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
1. The children and the Andals made peace, which resulted in no more trees cut down, the island of many faces being protected, etc. They've been biding their time for centuries?


I wonder if the God's Woods Trees are what the Children become in "death"? (Kind of the like the "Speakers for the Dead" book 2 of Ender's Game Trilogy"... Killing a tree, is basically killing a tranformed CoTF
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SpreadsheetAg
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In reply to DTP02 • 9:41a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
quote:
He isn't s white walker but he is something supernatural as well.
I think he's a dead night's watchman being warged by the tree guy (Bloodraven?).


Or just.. "Mostly Dead"
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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In reply to W.C. Griffin '09 • 9:44a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
He isn't s white walker but he is something supernatural as well.
I think he's a dead night's watchman being warged by the tree guy (Bloodraven?).

Maybe he is the wight for a separate faction of Others that opposes the main group...they are the other Others
Maybe they have different Other Mothers, and thus they are Step-Others.
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SpreadsheetAg
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9:46a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
I also wonder if the WW can go into the caves or are they bound by the same magic that prevents wights.

I doubt they can... I assume it's the same magic that prevents anything "dark" from going beyond the wall...

Is't it Coldhands that rescues Sam and gets him south of the wall? He also is the one that tells Sam (or Bran) the right words to say to grant him access to the living door/gate in the tunnel underneath the wall. However, Coldhands cannot cross through the gate himself - implying that he may not be a WW/Other but he is kin to them magically somehow...

Maybe his conversion was only partial because of his heritage? He retains his "humanity" but is also made immortal/undead, cold, frozen, etc.?
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to Fat Bib Fortuna • 9:51a, 6/2/15
AG
So they are brother-others from other other-mothers?
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redline248
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10:18a, 6/2/15
AG
I always figured Coldhands was a wight that broke free of the white walkers control somehow.
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BigTimeAlum
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In reply to SpreadsheetAg • 10:24a, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
quote:
1. The children and the Andals made peace, which resulted in no more trees cut down, the island of many faces being protected, etc. They've been biding their time for centuries?


I wonder if the God's Woods Trees are what the Children become in "death"? (Kind of the like the "Speakers for the Dead" book 2 of Ender's Game Trilogy"... Killing a tree, is basically killing a tranformed CoTF


I think that's spot on. Either when they die, or "seers" that willingly made the transistion.
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Texas Tide
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10:30a, 6/2/15
AG
The final books have been delayed so GRRM can spend the next 15 years writing Game of Ice Thrones detailing the schemes and snow puddings the white walkers are playing beyond the wall.
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Joe Cole
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11:58a, 6/2/15
so how many people in book and show know that Bran/Rikkon are alive? I know there are more than I have listed here

Show:
Sansa
Theon
Osha
Sam did right ? or am I just imagining that scene from book ?
Meera
Jojen
Hodor
Ramsey
Roose


Book-
Theon
Osha
Manderly/ Davos / Wex
Sam
Gille
Meera
Jojen
Hodor
Coldhands

Drawing a blank on if Ramsey knows

Right now my biggest short term show question is what is Ramsey going to do with 20 guys and biggest long term question is how exactly does Bran play into the story going fwd
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Agustus Caesar
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12:02p, 6/2/15
AG
quote:
Sam did right ? or am I just imagining that scene from book ?
yes, he and gilly run into them at the Nightfort at the end of season 3, after Sam killed the white walker and while bran told the rat cook story.
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Agustus Caesar
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12:02p, 6/2/15
AG
Ramsey and Roose also know. in the show
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CapCityAg89
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3:06p, 6/2/15
AG
In the show, Theon/Reek told Ramsey. In the book, Ramsey/Reek helped Theon do the deed (flayed and tarred rather than burned I think).
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AustinAg2K
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3:32p, 6/2/15
Does anyone else thing the show has foreshadowed Jon's death too much. I've been reading a lot of reviews of the episodes this season, and a lot of people are predicting Olly kills Jon, especially after this last episode. It seems to me like the show has telegraphed it too much.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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3:38p, 6/2/15
AG
i think its a catch-22.....if they dont foreshadow it, then its "too random", "just killing main characters for the hell of it", etc etc.....however if you do what they are doing now, than with the perpetual social media cycle people are bound to speculate. that said, no one close to me has indicated they think anything is going to happen to him, at least at home (fiance) or here at work (prob 20+ coworkers)
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rhutton125
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3:44p, 6/2/15
AG
I might be crazy here... but doesn't Jon know that Bran is alive? (Purely in the show) Didn't Sam tell him or something? I know that Jon didn't see Bran during the mutineer battle last season... but I seem to recall thinking "surely Sam just wouldn't lie to Jon" and a scene later saying something about helping Bran through the wall or some such.

Actually just saw this comment on a YouTube video when I tried to find it:

quote:
In the book:Bran: "Sam, you can't tell Jon we met here! Promise me!
Sam: sure!

In the show:
Sam: "Yo, Jon I saw you little brother!"
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