***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

209,281 Views | 2149 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Twelfthman
mid90
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AG
what's up with Petyr's accent in season 4?

His lines in episode 4 weren't as distracting as his lines from episode 3, but the actor just seems.....off....
Kampfers
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This makes me vastly rethink my thoughts on Benjen... Him being coldhands seems more plausible now.

also HBO straight up calling that dude the "nights king" in their synopsis. Damn.
mid90
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AG
I'd previously subscribed to the theory that Coldhands = Nights King.


I really, really want Benjen = Coldhands, but in the books it's stated that Coldhands is very, very old, which doesn't fit with Benjen.

Although......another theory is Coldhands is one persona taken on by different people as the years pass on, a la The Dread Pirate Roberts
redbaron788
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quote:
Well it looked like an alter. IDK how the Other got from Caster's Keep (fairly close to the Wall) all the way out there in less than a month presumably. If they can move that fast, why is it taking them months to make it to the Wall?


For the first part, magic, because honestly how fast would a baby die from exposure anyway? Within a day? Magic. Also it was likely a flash-forward, but mostly magic.

And the second, like any third army(especially one primarily of dead people), do you immediately attack your enemies at their full strength just because you can? Or do you let them soften each other up first, possibly making more foot soldiers FOR you?
hunter2012
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also if your ally is the cold, wouldn't you wait for winter to hit(which doesn't until DwD).

step 1-build army, mostly by humans killing each other
step 2-wait for winter
step 3-???
step 4-kill everybody that GRRM hasn't killed already.
The Debt
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The strategy is an interesting point, but also remember it's still autumn.

But if you were the WWs it would be better to kill folks ASAP. All the wildlings that die at the hands of the NW are now lost to you.
The Debt
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Hunter do we have any confirmation that WWs can bring any dead back to life? I thought they had to be killed by the WWs to be reanimated.
redline248
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Hoat, Lorch....who gives a sh_t?

As to cold hands, I thought the text was something along the lines of "he died long ago" which could be 2 years (about the time Benjen disappeared). How accurate is someone who is part tree, who probably lost a real sense of time, anyway
mid90
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quote:
How accurate is someone who is part tree, who probably lost a real sense of time, anyway


My logic was a long time to someone who lives for hundreds of years (children of the forest), would be an even longer time to us normal humans.
redline248
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Yeah, I know. I suppose the point is the evidence, such as it is, it's way too vague to give much of a good idea. Which is just about all Martin had done the entire series.


By the way, I wonder how much he cares about the big changes to story like tonight's episode
hunter2012
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AG
I thought I remembered that the windings burn their dead regardless of who killed them, that suggests that the Others take all candidates.
redbaron788
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quote:
Hunter do we have any confirmation that WWs can bring any dead back to life? I thought they had to be killed by the WWs to be reanimated.


Wildlings burning anyone who dies seems like it to me
Urban Ag
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quote:
He's not going to finish the books is he?


After the epic shark jumping tonight, I would say no, which I have felt was the case for some time now.

I think we get season 5 next year, then WOW shortly after. Then season 6 in spring 2016, then they finish it out with season 7 in spring 2017. then it's done. No Dream of Spring

oh well, it's been a great ride.

My wife and I were watching tonight and she's like "oh my god, are they going to hurt a baby? what is going to happen to the baby? I can't watch this" and all I can say is I have no frickin idea.
H.E. Pennypacker
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What was shark jumping exactly? Show is great.
hunter2012
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There's too much divergence for me to accept that Dream of Spring will be show only. He has too finish...
Urban Ag
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quote:
What was shark jumping exactly? Show is great.


oh golly, did I use the wrong term? I may have.

Tonight was the most significant departure from the books so far. And the WW revelation was in fact a massive "spoiler" for book readers. Huge.

I agree though, love the show.
Urban Ag
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quote:
There's too much divergence for me to accept that Dream of Spring will be show only. He has too finish...



GRRM is 65.

ADWD was released in 2011.

WOW is yet to be released. 2015 at this point.

HBO is not going to put the series on pause for him to finish ADOS.

Maybe they end the series with the events of WOW then go full 3 hour major motion picture ending for ADOS without the book release or after the book release, 5-7 years from now. Who knows, I just really doubt they don;t wrap this up on HBO. Two cents, worth nothing more.
The Debt
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quote:
I thought I remembered that the windings burn their dead regardless of who killed them, that suggests that the Others take all candidates.


Or that you can't bury a body in ice. Slow rotting corpses exposed in the sun is a nasty way to rid a body.

The Wildlings haven't seen an other in thousands of years. It seems like a bunch of disorganized libertarians wouldn't be beholden to fears of extinct creatures, but practicality of the only means of corpse disposal.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Urban, the shows creators have already stated they will proceed with the show regardless of whether the books are finished.
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Urban Ag
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yep, hence my note that HBO will not pause the series. Everything else is willful speculation.

it will end on HBO, this is known.
riley290
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quote:
The Wildlings haven't seen an other in thousands of years.


Isn't the whole point of the uniting of the free folk because they've been getting killed by Others and their wights? Mance was pretty upfront about that to Jon in ASOS and that he didn't want to destroy the wall but use it as protection from them.

[This message has been edited by riley290 (edited 4/28/2014 3:43a).]
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Greeze06
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AG
So what exactly was spoiled about the others?
pb488
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that they are/were human
OnlyForNow
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We didn't know what happened to the babies.

I figured they ate them or something.

Never woulda figured that they could possess them or whatever happened.

I think most on here thought that they were their own race, not humans zombie-iced.
Mega Lops
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quote:
that they are/were human
This doesn't bother me. We've always known they were humanoid, so it really doesn't spoil anything to find out they started life as humans. It is far more interesting to me that Craster is the father of most of the new Others as of late.
OnlyForNow
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Well we don't even know how fast they grow.

Craster has only been there for 20-30 years so, not a heck of a lot of his kids are able bodied at this point, unless they have super growth spurts or something... guess anything is possible though.
Hudson2508
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What bothers me is that last night felt like the turning point for the book/show ending dance. Before there was always a hope HBO would either string it along and let him finish the books or maybe go on a hiatus. That seems very unlikely now that they are taking liberties to show bookreaders glimpses of concepts we wouldn't know from the books. That compounded with the change in Bran and Jon's stories left me a little sad as a reader. Guess I should have never gotten my hopes up.

It just feel a like the ending we will get is going to be a mix of what the show writers want and what Martin intended. It might turn out better but it's still a little hard to swallow. Pretty fascinating though.
OnlyForNow
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AG
M<artin could change the story in the books for all we know; and thus begins (last night) the separation of the books and the show.

I'd be ok with that, I guess. But I do agree, its weird being on the other end of the spoiler, seeing it in the show before I read it (if we ever were going to find out about the walkers etc).
LawAg05
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AG
Can someone link the interview with D&D talk about the ending and mention nights king?
The Dog Lord
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Some questions after last night:

-Jon & Sam acted like Sam had told him about Bran, but I thought he made it a point not to. Did this happen off screen or did I just miss it in one of the most recent episodes?
-Will Coldhands ever appear, and if so will it be to help Bran escape Craster's?
-Are the WW ONLY turned humans, or is it simply a way for them to make more? Who was the first WW, and how did they come to be? It wasn't the Night's King. Also, can they only use babies or theoretically turn older humans?

Side note: It's been mentioned that the official HBO synopsis mentioned the Night's King, but then changed it later. Here are some links regarding this (one is Reddit, so take that how you will):
http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thrones_season_4_oathkeeper_synopsis_confirms_major_white_walker_theory-2014-04
http://i.imgur.com/G1pdcan.png
Thomas Ford 91
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AG
I started writing a post about how much larger the book audience is, hence the books will be finished. But, research proved me wrong. It really isn't that much larger. HBO has 28 million subscribers. About 5 million of them are known to watch GOT. The entire ASOIAF series has sold about 25 million books. Assume many buyers bought all 5 books, the audience is roughly the same size.

Still, I don't think the series ends with HBO. The divergence is key. Even through this episode, the story has diverged enough that it would be difficult to have the same ending. I wonder if the catch-up problem was resolved by taking the show in a different enough direction that it ends up being something else entirely before complete. An alternate reality ASOIAF.

I can't believe I just wrote "alternate reality ASOIAF". I wonder how different my life would be today had a said those words in front of my wife before we were married nearly 9 years ago. Last night we had this conversation snippet.

me: "the others have, like, predator armor (from the book), and are preparing an army of blue eyed ice zombies to invade the south, but we don't know exactly what they do with the babies they convert"
her: "wait, they have blue eyed ice zombies?"
me: "well, yeah"
her: "(eyes roll) snicker, dear lord, snicker giggle laugh, blue eyed ice zombies".

Anyway, the books will get written, either by GRRM or someone else if he dies. The missus will not read.

Question: the terms WW and Other mean the same thing, right?

Also, always thought the Others somehow raised the babies. If a sacrificial baby is all that keeps my home from being overrun by the wights, that baby is worth more than lunch. We now know the Others transform the babies. We don't know what it transforms them into. Not a wight, because nobody needs wight babies. Not an Other, else you get the chicken/egg problem. Maybe something in between, something that can survive better in the warmth. An Others bannerman.

Also, in the previews, I don't think we actually saw the faces of the mutineers fighting Jon. Entirely possible that Coldhands overran the place and Jon is fighting the recently wighted. It could make sense; this story gets entirely out or whack if Bran and Vargo meet. Unless Coldhands shows up thereafter and is Benjen and Jon lets Bran go with him.

Also, the baby POV while riding with the wight seemed odd, unless it was important later. Was somebody warging into that baby?

Also, I think ASOIAF is ultimately about dragons v others. That's what this is all winding down to.

Also, am I alone in thinking the Bran plot line in the books is disturbing? I sense evil lurking there, like innocent Bran is being led into something very very bad. But, then I wonder why Jojen doesn't know it?
Kampfers
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AG
quote:
Also, am I alone in thinking the Bran plot line in the books is disturbing? I sense evil lurking there, like innocent Bran is being led into something very very bad. But, then I wonder why Jojen doesn't know it?


Obviously because Bran ate Jojen. [/another tinfoil theory i hate]

Look up "Jojen Paste" if you care to read more.

As far as Bran goes, I think it might be the case. But I feel that GRRM has been very clear through the whole series that "evil" is not always what it seems, and the same for good. So I'm hesitant to say he's heading for evil, just as I'm hesitant to say the WW/Others are evil.
aggie93
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AG
I need to go back and re-watch. That said, I knew things were inevitably going to happen to make the show and books become different stories but that was a big departure last night. Some of the butterfly affects are really significant now. I'm trying to figure out how they get Jon's story arc back into line with the attack on the Wall seeming imminent and Jon about to leave the Wall. Will Bran and Jon actually meet? That would be very cool but also another huge book departure. I think Vargo Hoat/whatever his name is in the show is about to get killed trying to kill Jon.

Really liked the Margery and Tommen scene.
redline248
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I don't know, anything that only shows up at night and raises the dead into zombies is pretty friggin evil.

Also, that was a lot of alsos
Kampfers
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Interesting theory re: last night and the walkers.

quote:
Did anyone else find the opening to episode 4 (Grey Worm's discussion of not remembering anything before being taken and converted into Unsullied by the masters) and the ending (the baby being taken and converted by the Others) to be similar in an eerily creepy way? Is this a hint to the viewers/readers that the Others aren't necessarily acting of their own free will? Perhaps they're enslaved by the Great Other just as the Unsullied were by their masters. Those two scenes just seem too symmetrical for me to believe there isn't a hint of some link between their situations.
I like the idea that they Others are slaves, and could perhaps be freed (like Coldhands) from whatever is driving them against mankind. It adds depth to them, instead of them just being evil creatures that want to rule the world. If they're unwilling participants in the Great Other's war with R'hollar then there's room to pity and even sympathize with them.


I do think that the symmetry of the two scenes was interesting and that there could be something to this.
 
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