There was a lot for the book theories in Oberyn's conversation with Tyrrion...

Does arya just sit and watch the hound in the books? I thought she was struggling with one of them.

Apparently they are taking the hound a different way. Didn't look injured at all after that fight.

It looked like he caught someone's sword with his hand or forearm. Idk. I'm sure there will be a reveal that makes him ill as they head east.

Where does arya leave westeros? The saltpans?

in the book, arya tries throwing a knife at a guy and it bounces off his armor or something.

She struggles with a second before killing him - a squire or something? Then goes hog wild on the Tickler.

Loved Oberyn; hated Dario Nahaaris 2.0.

Liked Oberyn too except that nut grab. Arya's scenes were great.

What did the Oberyn/Tyrion conversation do for theories? Missed that one.

What was the leader of the Thenns name?

Also, GOT had their first big casting miss since second season Mountain......that dewsh from Tremendous is a terrible Dhaario. Looks weak as hell.

Kinda weird oberyn and Chick were both gay, or both pretending to be.

Oberyn was awesome. Loved the Hound's dialogue with Polliver

I think he's just the current Magnar of Thenn.

The Thenns were a great surprise in terms of awesomeness.

I didn't love the original Dario, but this guy is just so generic looking. Hate to throw him under the Khalasar so quickly, but snoozer.

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I think he's just the current Magnar of Thenn.

The Thenns were a great surprise in terms of awesomeness.

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Agree

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Kinda weird oberyn and Chick were both gay, or both pretending to be.

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I think they just wanted to emphasize that the Red viper and his paramour are hypersexual, I think they achieved that, also the fact that he's a badass...

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Kinda weird oberyn and Chick were both gay, or both pretending to be.

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I think they just wanted to emphasize that the Red viper and his paramour are hypersexual, I think they achieved that, also the fact that he's a badass...

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Yep. He pretty much does whatever he wants...and he wants vengeance!

I was thinking either the hound it's going to get some serious wounds in a later episode, or the show just gave us a minor spoiler...in regards to the unnamed grave digger.

Not a fan of the red viper being into dudes, but otherwise a very good job of introducing him as a bamf.

Also, I laughed when Jaime waved his new gold hand at Qyburn. Actor and character are a perfect fit

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Also, I laughed when Jaime waved his new gold hand at Qyburn. Actor and character are a perfect fit

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I forgot about that, that was hilarious. He's doing so good that he's becoming likable much sooner than the Jaime in the books.

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What did the Oberyn/Tyrion conversation do for theories? Missed that one.

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Mentioned Rhaegar dumping his sister Elia(?) for another woman (presumably Lyanna Stark) and that starting a war that usurped the Targaryens.

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Mentioned Rhaegar dumping his sister Elia(?) for another woman (presumably Lyanna Stark) and that starting a war that usurped the Targaryens.

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yeah that was huge. perhaps clearing up/verifying the long held theory that Rhaegar didnt "abduct" Lyanna, but instead they ran off together.

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What did the Oberyn/Tyrion conversation do for theories? Missed that one.

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That Rhaegar left Oberyn's sister for another woman, and that started the war. The books address that early on, but the show had been kind of quiet about it. If the producers are introducing that information, it might indicate some validity to the theories surrounding Lynanna and Rhaegar.

Solid show. Really hoping the Daario guy gets cooler, of course I hated him in the books and I didn't really like the guy last season much either but this dude is just "generic good looking actor". I thought the sword holding "wager" was pretty lame as well and I don't recall Daario having a rivalry with Grey Worm that they seem to be building toward (thought it was always more about Jorah).

Loved the Viper but agree the gay stuff was a bit odd, esp him grabbing the guy's sack. Still, they appear to have cast it very well.

Highlight was the Arya/Hound fight scene and esp how she took out the Tickler. You can really see Arya is turning in to a really dangerous girl.

Loved the opening scenes with Ice being reforged. Made me feel angry all over again and loved how they had Tywin watching the whole process, very well done.

The Jaime and Cersei scenes were solid. I was rewatching the first episode of Season 1 a couple days ago and it is amazing what a great job they have done in transforming his character.

Can't wait for next week and to see the PW, this season is going to be so much fun!

did the books address that it was mutual? forgive me if i am incorrect, but the books didnt necessarily say they ran off together. Neds father and brother, as well as Robert, were all under the impression that rhaegar "kidnapped" her right? which is why the two Starks went to kings landing to protest, only to be killed by the mad king.

or do i mis-remember?

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oved the Viper but agree the gay stuff was a bit odd, esp him grabbing the guy's sack. Still, they appear to have cast it very well.

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the book is pretty explicit about his bisexuality. and HBO has been known to take some of the "implied" notions from the books (renly's homosexuality for example) and make them apparent. didnt have a problem with the scene. really think they nailed the casting and showcased both his and Ellaria's sexuality.

@Cibolo: You're correct that the story is that Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar, however, many believe that the story is indeed just a story made up for whatever reason (assumed by Robert because he can't imagine she would like Rhaegar and not him, made up by others to support Robert's Rebellion, made up by someone to protect Lyanna's honor, etc.). Many fans at this point though believe that Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar and possibly even married him making Jon the/a legitimate Targaryen heir.

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You're correct that the story is that Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar, however, many believe that the story is indeed just a story made up for whatever reason (assumed by Robert because he can't imagine she would like Rhaegar and not him, made up by others to support Robert's Rebellion, made up by someone to protect Lyanna's honor, etc.). Many fans at this point though believe that Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar and possibly even married him making Jon the/a legitimate Targaryen heir.

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ok, cool. thanks!. i do find that very telling, at least for the readers. giving that piece information in the show is not unlike having robbs wife and unborn child killed ilast season, when in the books his wife is sent away, is not at the red wedding, and never seen again, so we are left theorizing if she is in fact preggers or not. the show squashed that rumor, just like it validated this one.

just find that very very interesting.

Just a thought: "left her for another woman" doesn't necessarily mean the other woman was willing.

edit: I want to clarify that I am in the camp that Lyanna and Rhaegar were in love. I just don't think that one line validates the rumor.

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/7/2014 9:05a).]

Also, I LOL'd when Loras was referred to as a "reknowned pillowbiter"

Agreed redline. Haven't some Targs taken more than one wife anyway? Aegon the Conqueror married both of his sisters, so maybe Rhaegar was doing the same and Elia was okay with it as well...well maybe she was okay with it.

Really liked it. Thought the red viper casting, so far, is spot on.

I personally would like to see D Narhis with his ******y blue hair.

I could see the guy that was in the Mummy movies with Brendan Harris (as the protector or whatever) in this roll. But he is probably too likeable.

I think if you piece the show together and the book, you can get to a compelling argument about Rhaegar and Lyanna.

(1) From Season 1, Eddard and Robert in the crypt. Eddard is clearly uncomfortable with all Robert's exposition about Lyanna (how she belongs on a hill, how much he loved her, etc.)

(2) From the books, we know that Rhaegar took Lyanna to the Tower of Joy. He left her there to go fight for the Targs against Robert's rebellion.

(3) From the books and show, we know that once Kings Landing had fallen, the Lannisters kill the Targ children to end their claim to the throne.

(4) From the books, we know that Eddard and Co. end up at that Tower of Joy at the end of the war and defeat the kingsguard there. Holand Reed is the only guy left alive who knows what happened between Eddard and Lyanna at the end.

(5) From the show, we know that Oberyn thinks that Rhaegar ran away with another woman, and that started the war.

(6) And from the show, the fine folks on Reddit have found this screenshot from the Season 4 premiere of the White Book. The text on the left page reads:

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"...while defending the honour and property of the Dornish princess, Elia Martell. Handed command to Ser Arthur Dayne due to sustained injuries the same year. Broke three lances against Oswell Whent at the tourney at Harrenhal and fought with great distinction at the melee.

Dispatched by King Aerys to locate the crown Prince Rhaegar Targaryen in the wake of Robert Baratheon's rebellion.
Died in the Red Mountains of Dorne alongside his sworn brothers, Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Oswell Whent. After refusing to bow a knee to the new King, Robert Baratheon, all three were defeated by a small force led by Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell."

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So in order to find Rhaegar, the Kingsguard went to the Tower of Joy, which is where Lyanna was.

(7) Eddard won't tell Robert who Jon's mother is.

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Theory:

Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar. Robert assumed she was kidnapped, and started the war to get her back. Rhaegar and Lyanna fled all they way to Dorne and holed up in the tower of Joy. When the Kingsguard went to find Rhaegar, they discovered that he had already left, so they stayed to protect Rhaegar's child by Lyanna. When Eddard & Co. showed up at the Tower of Joy and killed the Kingsguard, they found Lyanna with a baby. Knowing that the Baratheons and Lannisters had killed at the Targ kids, Lyanna made Eddard swear that the baby was hid ******* and not Rhaegar and Lyanna's child. Eddard never told Robert, who till the day of his death thought Lyanna loved him and had been kidnapped.

Now the only guy who knows about Jon's true parentage is Howland Reed. Incidentally, he's also the guy to whom Robb sent the document legitimizing Jon as the heir to Winterfell.

Really enjoyed last night's episode, especially the opening and closing scenes (the former being the first soft open since... ever? maybe the first episode in the series had one?) with Ice being melted down and Arya checking off one of her hitlist items.

Someone mentioned earlier that they are making Jaime likable earlier than they did in the books, but I feel like this is around the time for me that my opinion of him had totally changed, completing the process started in the bath scene with Brienne where he explains what really happened with the Mad King and Tywin. I think when he gives Brienne her new armor and Oathkeeper, the non-reading audience will have found him totally redeemed and be actively rooting for his interests. They got them most of the way there last night though, I imagine, by refusing Tywin's offer to rule Casterly Rock. (side note-- when are we going to get book chapters that actually take place in Casterly Rock, rather than just have it mentioned by the Lannisters?)

I thought the show introduced the Red Viper fabulously. My questions have been about how they will explain the source of his need for revenge. I thought they did a pretty good job getting that backstory introduced last night.

Also, Podrick seems like he went from 16 to 26 years old since last season.

MW, I'm good with that theory, although..

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So in order to find Rhaegar, the Kingsguard went to the Tower of Joy, which is where Lyanna was.

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I thought Rhaegar ordered the 3 Kingsguard to the Tower, rather than they went looking for him there. Not that it matters much.

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Many fans at this point though believe that Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar and possibly even married him making Jon the/a legitimate Targaryen heir.

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Which Jon are you talking about? I haven't read book 5 yet, so their might be more info there that I need to get up to speed on.

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I thought Rhaegar ordered the 3 Kingsguard to the Tower, rather than they went looking for him there. Not that it matters much.

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You may be right. Maybe he sent the Kingsguard to the Tower of Joy to protect his son since he knew the Lannisters were going to kill are the Targ kids.

Over on the non-spoilers thread, they are discussing whether or not Cersei's 'symptoms' are due to pregnancy. That would be an interesting development.

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/7/2014 11:30a).]

This doesn't make sense...

quoted from above from the book screen shot...

"Dispatched by King Aerys to locate the crown Prince Rhaegar Targaryen in the wake of Robert Baratheon's rebellion. who was dispacted by the king?
Died in the Red Mountains of Dorne alongside his sworn brothers, Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Oswell Whent. After refusing to bow a knee to the new King, Robert Baratheon, all three were defeated by a small force led by Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell."

who is it that was with dayne and whent?

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Which Jon are you talking about?

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Jon Snow.

He isnt Ned's bast-urd, he is his nephew (his sister's child with the Targaryen prince).



Also, in S1E2 when Robert's party goes south and Benjen/Jon go North, Ned says "next time we meet I will tell you about your mother AND no matter what people say you are a Stark." I tend to think the latter phrase is more than just building Jon's self-esteem...

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tower_of_Joy

Ser Dayne, Ser Whent, and Lord Commander Hightower


Interesting, the wiki claims the tower was named the ToJoy by Rhaegar. So either it was a sex tower, or it was were his son was born...