It's probably because it's easier to convey her craziness and the emptiness of the castle by just having it empty on the show.

Was Sunday the last we'll see of Bronn? I think they might have him helping Varys/Jamie getting Tyrion out of jail perhaps, but otherwise it seems like his run on the show might be over.

He's only mentioned off-screen in his Stokeworth shennannigans in a Feast for Crows that I can remember.

As for the upcoming Viper/Mountain fight, the arena for it looks much smaller than I envisioned in the book, which would make it much harder for Oberyn to stay away from Gregor.

Oberyn has been so cool through the first 8 episodes - either rico suave or barely contained rage, I really hope the actor has in it him to unleash all the fury of two decades of revenge/justice.

In some ways, I'm anticipating the non-spoiler reaction to this fight as much as I was the Red Wedding since they all assume the Viper will win.

Many on the non-spoiler thread are wise to GRRM's tricks and expect OM to die.

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Anytime you start to root for a character he dies. Ned Stark, Robb Stark; it just happens. I'm expecting Oberyn to die.

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With the way this series goes oberyn will
Be headless in 10 seconds and tyrion shortly afterwards

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Looking forward to Oberyn v the Mountain - in any other series youre expecting the Mountain to go down, but the way this series has gone, things may not go so well for a character that you cheer for, and I enjoy Oberyn. I hope that's not the case.

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Was Sunday the last we'll see of Bronn? I think they might have him helping Varys/Jamie getting Tyrion out of jail perhaps, but otherwise it seems like his run on the show might be over.

He's only mentioned off-screen in his Stokeworth shennannigans in a Feast for Crows that I can remember.

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I think it'd be a nice touch to have him aid in the escape, but I hope that they continue to have him around (maybe with Jamie) in future seasons.

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Oberyn has been so cool through the first 8 episodes - either rico suave or barely contained rage, I really hope the actor has in it him to unleash all the fury of two decades of revenge/justice.
In some ways, I'm anticipating the non-spoiler reaction to this fight as much as I was the Red Wedding since they all assume the Viper will win.

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I think his fighting ability will seem more impressive to people because he has acted so cool and calm so far. He seems like a capable guy, but they really haven't talked him up as much in the show as he was in the books. As much as I want to the see people shocked by his death, I hope they decide to switch it up on us and keep him alive for future storylines (fat chance though I know).

They definitely nailed the casting of the Viper...it is really going to stink when him and Charles Dance are gone

They could have Bronn continue on with Jaime taking on Ilyn Payne's role and maybe embellish it. That would be good TV and not too much of a deviation from the books.

My guess is Bronn takes the role of Pain in training Jamie; but I did always like how he married that chick and basically took over relatively distinguished house.


I thought once it was announced that it was Autumn, the Eyrie started closing up shop. Plus a lot of lords got huffie when LF showed up. Since there was no longer any reason to court Lysa, many packed up at that point as well.

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Many on the non-spoiler thread are wise to GRRM's tricks and expect OM to die.

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Even still, the reactions would be fun to watch. GRRM gives you just enough hope... he's practically got it in the bag... and then all of that is ripped out from under him in a matter of seconds.

With Charles Dance gone, the show is left with hole.

He sucks the oxygen out of every scene, even with strong actors like Dinklage.

Even worse, it leaves the story without a villain. And I think that is what is lacking in AFFC and ADWD. Its just a bunch of characters, ranging in terribleness, living out their lives. Even as interesting as the Arya stuff is, it doesnt amount to a struggle.

Maybe we will see more WWs. Maybe more Stannis v Bolton. They look like they are accelerating that plot.

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ven worse, it leaves the story without a villain. And I think that is what is lacking in AFFC and ADWD. Its just a bunch of characters, ranging in terribleness, living out their lives. Even as interesting as the Arya stuff is, it doesnt amount to a struggle.

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I think you're spot on Bill. The White Walkers and Dany and her dragons are looming throughout both books, but nothing happens. Hopefully TWOW will have more of an active plot.

I wonder how much they could make cersei as a bigger villain next season. Is the actress strong enough to pull it off?

No doubt next season is crucial in many ways. They have to decide on how to handle Dorne and the Iron Islands and who to cast there. They HAVE to get some really strong new cast members because they are about to lose 3 favorites (Tywin, Viper, and The Hound).

The real challenge is the storylines they will cover aren't as exciting either, nor do they have characters with as much natural intrigue. Still, the right characters for Victarion, Damphair, Doran, and Arianne is absolutely key because the material isn't that strong to carry them. Euron is a pretty cool villain and character but he doesn't have a lot of space in the books, they may expand his role to make up some slack. The whole storyline of Bran and the 3 Eyed Crow is going to be interesting to see what they do. How they handle Arya and Tyrion is also crucial of course, Tyrion is basically just going to be traveling for a long time.

Any way you slice it though, lots of change and far less focus on KL and most of the parts of Westeros that people have grown to know.

I wonder if they will make the Faith bad. GRRM making enough parallels to our iron age to make the inquisition a dark power, mix that with the citadel and jaqen and we could have some next level shtt playing out.

This is how I think the season will play out. In episode 8 we'll get the fight of Oberyn and the Mountain. That will be the highlight.

In episode 9 we'll get the death of Tywin and Shae.

In episode 10 we'll get the battle at the wall, and the season will end with the re-animated Catelyn Stark.

Ep 9 is titled The Watchers on the Wall

I very much hope someone in that last episode says, "Jon Snow, you have the Wall."

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This is how I think the season will play out. In episode 8 we'll get the fight of Oberyn and the Mountain. That will be the highlight.

In episode 9 we'll get the death of Tywin and Shae.

In episode 10 we'll get the battle at the wall, and the season will end with the re-animated Catelyn Stark.

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The battle at the Wall is episode 9. It's the same director as the episode "Blackwater" and it's very similar in that it takes place entirely at the Wall. Episode 10 is where Tywin and Shae will bite it.

Bookmark

Oops, my bad. Didn't know the names of the coming episodes. Regardless, I still think the season will end with Catelyn Stark being "alive".

Also, I've read only the first 3 books (and part of the 4th), but haven't been able to get into the last books as much. Are the 4th and 5th books as good as the first 3? I've heard lots of people say nothing really happens in them, so I've been slow to reading them.

There is a recommended chapter reading order list for AFFC and ADWD that puts everything in chronological order so that it makes more sense. I'll post it next.

NOTE: if you consider chapter titles to be spoilers and you haven't read both AFFC and ADWD already, you should skip this list.






* Prologue (Varamyr): ADWD 1
* Prologue (Pate): AFFC 1
* The Prophet (Aeron I): AFFC 2
* The Captain of Guards (Areo I): AFFC 3
* Cersei I: AFFC 4
* Brienne I: AFFC 5
* Tyrion I: ADWD 2
* Dany I: ADWD 3
* Jon I: ADWD 4
* Bran I: ADWD 5
* Tyrion II: ADWD 6
* The Merchant’s Man: ADWD 7
* Samwell I: AFFC 6
* Jon II: ADWD 8
* Arya I: AFFC 7
* Cersei II: AFFC 8
* Jaime I: AFFC 9
* Brienne II: AFFC 10
* Sansa I: AFFC 11
* The Kraken’s Daughter (Asha I): AFFC 12
* Tyrion III: ADWD 9
* Davos I: ADWD 10
* Jon III: ADWD 11
* Dany II: ADWD 12
* Reek I: ADWD 13
* Cersei III: AFFC 13
* The Soiled Knight (Arys I): AFFC 14
* Bran II: ADWD 14
* Tyrion IV: ADWD 15
* Davos II: ADWD 16
* Brienne III: AFFC 15
* Samwell II: AFFC 16
* Dany III: ADWD 17
* Jon IV: ADWD 18
* Tyrion V: ADWD 19
* Davos III: ADWD 20
* Jaime II: AFFC 17
* Cersei IV: AFFC 18
* The Iron Captain (Victarion I): AFFC 19
* The Drowned Man (Aeron II): AFFC 20
* Brienne IV: AFFC 21
* The Queenmaker (Arianne I): AFFC 22
* Arya II: AFFC 23
* Reek II: ADWD 21
* Jon V: ADWD 22
* Tyrion VI: ADWD 23
* Dany IV: ADWD 24
* Alayne I (Sansa II): AFFC 24
* Cersei V: AFFC 25
* The Reaver (Victarion II): AFFC 30
* The Lost Lord: ADWD 25
* The Windblown: ADWD 26
* The Wayward Bride: ADWD 27
* Brienne V: AFFC 26
* Samwell III: AFFC 27
* Jaime III: AFFC 28
* Tyrion VII: ADWD 28
* Jon VI: ADWD 29
* Davos IV: ADWD 30
* The Princess in the Tower (Arianne II): AFFC 41
* Cersei VI: AFFC 29
* Dany V: ADWD 31
* Melisandre I: ADWD 32
* Jaime IV: AFFC 31
* Brienne VI: AFFC 32
* Reek III : ADWD 33
* Tyrion VIII: ADWD 34
* Cersei VII: AFFC 33
* Jaime V: AFFC 34
* Cat of the Canals (Arya III): AFFC 35
* Samwell IV: AFFC 36
* Bran III: ADWD 35
* Jon VII: ADWD 36
* Dany VI: ADWD 37
* Cersei VIII: AFFC 37
* Brienne VII: AFFC 38
* Jaime VI: AFFC 39
* The Prince of Winterfell : ADWD 38
* Jon VIII: ADWD 40
* Tyrion IX: ADWD 41
* Dany VII: ADWD 44
* Cersei IX: AFFC 40
* Alayne II (Sansa III): AFFC 42
* The Turncloak : ADWD 42
* The King’s Prize: ADWD 43
* Jon IX: ADWD 45
* Tyrion X: ADWD 48
* Dany VIII: ADWD 51
* Brienne VIII: AFFC 43
* Cersei X: AFFC 44
* Jaime VII: AFFC 45
* The Blind Girl: ADWD 46
* A Ghost in Winterfell : ADWD 47
* Samwell V: AFFC 46
* The Watcher: ADWD 39
* Jon X: ADWD 50
* Dany IX: ADWD 53
* Jaime VIII: ADWD 49
* The Queensguard: ADWD 56
* The Iron Suitor: ADWD 57
* Tyrion XI: ADWD 58
* Theon VII: ADWD 52
* Cersei XI: ADWD 55
* The Discarded Knight: ADWD 60
* The Spurned Suitor : ADWD 61
* Jon XI: ADWD 54
* The Griffin Reborn: ADWD 62
* The Sacrifice: ADWD 63
* Victarion IV: ADWD 64
* The Ugly Little Girl : ADWD 65
* Jon XII: ADWD 59
* Cersei XII: ADWD 66
* Tyrion XII: ADWD 67
* The Kingbreaker : ADWD 68
* The Dragontamer: ADWD 69
* Jon XIII: ADWD 70
* The Queen’s Hand : ADWD 71
* Daenerys X: ADWD 72
* Epilogue : ADWD 73






End of spoilers

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Regardless, I still think the season will end with Catelyn Stark being "alive".

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Given Lena Headey's recent instagram post, this is a fairly safe bet to occur in the next few weeks, even if it doesn't cap the season.

from EW.com article about the upcoming fight.

Showrunners Dan Weiss and David Benioff teased the bout (without spoilers) after shooting the sequence last fall. “It’s one of the best — if not the best — combat scenes we’ve done so far,” Weiss said. “It’s not just people hacking at each other with spears and swords. It’s the culmination of 20 years of anger and hatred and thirst for vengeance coming to a head in this amazing set piece that [stunt coordinator Paul Herbert and swordmaster C.C. Smiff] have put together. The fight delivers beyond our expectations.”

“It’s one of those fights that from the very beginning of the process of planning the show before season one we knew would be a high point if done properly,” Weiss said. “And it’s a real challenge because The Mountain is The Mountain — you need to find an enormous human being who can also deliver what you need on physical front. And you need an Oberyn who delivers what you need as an actor and pull off the extremely strenuous side of that fight, which we shot over several days. We were lucky to find Pedro Pascal for Oberyn, who gives such a stunning, fun, and dangerous performance. And Hafþór for The Mountain is a truly unusual specimen — I believe he’s the third-strongest man in the world and a former basketball player, so he knows how to move. To see somebody who is 6′ 9″ and moving the way he does in person is a surreal sight to behold.”

- It's staggering to think of that guy weighing 420 pounds.

I wouldn't say "nothing happens" at all, it is just not at the same pace as Book 3 which is filled with big moments. Book 4 is the shortest book and introduces a lot of new characters. Lots of traveling and setup. There were many things that happened in Book 4 that I glazed over only to get to Book 5 and go "Woah, let me re-read about what happened earlier!" Book 5 has more action but even then you can tell it is setting up Book 6 as being action packed as there are simply too many storylines about to collide as Book 5 ends. I don't know how Book 6 is anything but action packed.

You can definitely see how Martin hit some rough spots in his writing in Books 4 and 5 and came to the realization he had to stop expanding at some point. From how Book 5 ends though and looking at the sample chapters of Book 6 it looks like he is finally bringing it in toward a conclusion but we will have to see. He gets so easily distracted.

Book 4 is pretty good, but the biggest problems is it doesn't really deal with some of the more favorite characters (notably Tyrion) and, more than the other books, a lot of the story really comes out in side conversations and news delivered to chapter characters.

I think Martin did a very good job with how Cercei really fooks up Westeros. You knew she was no Tywin, but the way her mistake after mistake eventually culminates - why not as exciting as Robb dying or Tywin dying while pooping - really was interesting.

I didn't like book 4 nearly as much as the first 3, but it picked up enough by book 5 that it's worth reading. Like MSC said, a lot of the interesting things that are happening in book 4, you only find out about through hearsay. And to me the ten Cercei chapters were a bit much.

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No doubt next season is crucial in many ways. They have to decide on how to handle Dorne and the Iron Islands and who to cast there. They HAVE to get some really strong new cast members because they are about to lose 3 favorites (Tywin, Viper, and The Hound).

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That is a big undertaking, but certainly doable. He'll they have nailed the casting of almost every single character so far. Their casting of Twin far superseded anything any reader could have even hoped for so I am confident they will continue to do the same. If they could nail the Kevan Lannister casting, expanding his role much like they have tywin and with other characters, it could really offset these inevitable losses.

Prince Doran, Ser Kevan, Jon Connington, arianne, victarion and euron greyjoy.....those are huge.

I really had to work to get through AFFC my first time through. I actually thoroughly enjoyed the book on the second reading, even though it's still the least exciting.

I agree that the third book (especially the last half or so) is bananas, so it sets up the fourth/fifth to somewhat disappoint or bore at times. I liked it much better than I thought I would though, but maybe because I had such low expectations from what I had heard from others. It also helped knowing that half of the characters wouldn't be in it. I can't imagine how people felt if they read it before book 5 was out and were shocked that some of their favs weren't included. Some characters have great story arcs while others have less intriguing ones, but overall I liked them and am excited as others have mentioned for how book 6 should be more like book 3 in excitement.

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I really had to work to get through AFFC my first time through. I actually thoroughly enjoyed the book on the second reading, even though it's still the least exciting.

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Agreed.

AFFC is a great book that gets a bad rap.

It gets a bad rap because I ****ing hate Cersei's POV chapters. I'd rather read a Hodor chapter than listen to Cersei's jealous, *****y thoughts about Margaery over and over again.

[This message has been edited by mid90 (edited 5/20/2014 9:23p).]

I liked Cersei's chapters only because they kept you abreast of what was happening in Kings Landing.

Nothing was as boring as Daenerys chapters in the first half of aDwD. Good Lord I couldn't care any less about her troubles in Mereen.

Just thinking about how glorious the fan tears would be if HBO completely went rogue and let Oberyn win, then have Tywin banish Tyrion.

Wouldn't really be glorious, it would be a departure from the plot they could never recover from though.

Any way you slice it, next season will be a letdown after this season. They just need to keep it interesting enough to bridge to Season 6. If they try to put too much in though by creating lots of new storylines that will likely cause them more problems than it will solve.

Toughest thing is Show watchers are far less patient than readers (who aren't real patient either). They have to keep it moving and doing so without several mainstay awesome characters is going to be a challenge.

The upcoming season was always going to be the most challenging given the weakness of the source material.

For anyone looking to pass the time as we wait two weeks for the next episode, here is an interesting, but very long theory on the origin of blood magic and the balance of fire v. ice: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/73356-ice-and-fire-assessmenttheory-long-read/