***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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AggieSouth06
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5:21p, 5/5/14
quote:
Yara has already been established as a character in the show (I really hope they recast)


Why?? That actress is just fine and recasts SUUUUUCK. Especially on shows with this many characters. I still wish they had kept the old Daario just because the continuity issue bugs the bejesus out of me.
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The Dog Lord
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5:24p, 5/5/14
AG
Back to Coldhands: Do y'all think that HBO will go through the trouble to introduce him as a character if Bran's story has progressed this far without him? I mean he was supposed to save Sam/Gilly, escort Bran the whole way, kill the men at Craster's, etc. Maybe they don't care if they waste their time on a character that won't be around long, but like many of you have said, I keep expecting him to come out of the night at any moment. The longer it takes him, the less likely I think it is that we ever see him. Maybe that's what HBO wants us to think though...
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aggie93
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5:48p, 5/5/14
AG
I think at this point introducing CH is a waste. He's a cool character in the books but they have to make choices and much of CH's arc has already been surpassed.

I'd like to see the Kingsmoot and some of the Iron Born story but agree in the end it is a subplot. It's just hard to imagine they lead to anything of significance, no way is the Iron Born going to rule Westeros. They are probably the weakest House because they are fewer in population, different culturally, and really have no power beyond the sea. They are raiders not rulers, Harren was the exception.
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OnlyForNow
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6:36p, 5/5/14
AG
I think CH, might have a larger role yet to play we don't know about. He could be a oral link between the ww and humans since he has traits of both.
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rhutton125
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8:39p, 5/5/14
AG
I'm expecting Bran to have some more "bonus material" to string his story along a bit. Perfect timing for Coldhands to show up. Like that link I posted earlier, Bran has 3 chapters in the books that haven't been shown yet... and we're about 15 episodes away from "catching up" with the end of ADWD.

The Quentyn discussion is interesting to me. He may not appear, but I think it's more likely that his character will be merged with someone. Who are candidates that the TV audience is familiar with who become less significant by ADWD? Bronn and Gendry have both experienced character mergers already, and aren't exactly POV characters by book 5.

Maybe Arianne will take over as our main reference to the Martells. She could go as an emissary for Quentyn, and one of the sellswords could be the one to try and hijack the dragon. Who knows.
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LawAg05
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9:39a, 5/6/14
AG
From the other thread:
quote:
It's clear someone's going out the moon hole, but I think it's the mom and son. Littlefinger sees three steps ahead of everyone else. He clearly doesn't want to be with her and has probably already figured out a way to off her without looking suspicious. Then he tries to marry Sansa.

Maybe eventually Sansa kills him, but I hope he's around for a while. Mayor Carcetti is always a conniving badass.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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9:58a, 5/6/14
sounds like a reader.
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Idk3
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10:33a, 5/6/14
AG
Was Bran, Jojen and Meera getting captured at Craster's keep in the books? I don't remember it, nor do I remember Hoag being a spy in the Night's Watch. The whole battle of the Night Watch and Mance was Book 3 stuff, and I read that last year before season 3. So, it's been awhile, but don't remember that part. I also don't remember Ramsey and Theon's sister fighting, which appears in next weeks episode.
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Mega Lops
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10:56a, 5/6/14
AG
Locke, who is Vargo Hoat in the books, doesn't try to infiltrate the Night's Watch.
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hunter2012
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11:54a, 5/6/14
AG
quote:
Was Bran, Jojen and Meera getting captured at Craster's keep in the books?


No, they meet Coldhands just north of the wall he proceeds to guide them to the 3 eyed raven. It takes maybe 3-4 chapters, so the show is trying to "spice things up". With the White Walkers becoming more prevalent I'm not surprised that the Bran storyline is going to get more focus as well...
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Kampfers
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12:35p, 5/6/14
AG
Man, if I hadn't read all the books, I'd stay off that other thread like the plague. Farrrrrr to many "helpful" tidbits and people who are seem to be pretending they didn't read so they can "predict" what happens next. Maybe HBO has made the symbolism and foreshadowing too heavy handed recently, but it seems some people are far too "in the know" to just be guessing the next steps on all these storylines, and deliberately leading the conversation in that direction.

Can't really call anyone out on it either because then you prove them correct.
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redline248
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12:55p, 5/6/14
AG
I try not to lead the discussion in any direction, just add clarifications from past episodes. I hope I don't seem too spoilery over there.

The one thing I did want to do was post the scene of Stannis burning the leaches to see if anyone caught on that maybe Balon was up next...but I thought better of it.
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G.I.Bro
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1:01p, 5/6/14
Martin could have asked HBO to hold off on coldhands for a bit, as seeing him could potentially spoil who he is. Readers knew that Selmy was whitebeard, so that whole storyline could be skipped, no problem, but if the same actor that played benjen is cast for coldhands, that could spoil the books, even if it is an assumption.
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AgDev01
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1:17p, 5/6/14
AG
I don't think the reason they are holding off on Coldhands is because he is Benjen, as I don't think Coldhands is Benjen. It is plausible though. I think rhutton is right in that it is just being delayed to add more to Bran's story. They are bound to meet the wildings traveling south here pretty soon. Coldhands can just show up there and kill a few there instead of the mutineers from Craster's.


quote:
Maybe Arianne will take over as our main reference to the Martells. She could go as an emissary for Quentyn, and one of the sellswords could be the one to try and hijack the dragon. Who knows.


It remains to be seen if Quentyn will be written off, i don't think he will, but if he is i don't think it will be Arianne who replaces him on the trip to Mereen. She is off looking to see Aegon right now and i think that story will be one that plays a big role as it is Vary's play.


quote:
Farrrrrr to many "helpful" tidbits and people who are seem to be pretending they didn't read so they can "predict" what happens next.


Agreed. I just don't see the point of posting on that thread if you have read the books. They haven't read the books for a reason. If they are wrong on somethings let them be.

[This message has been edited by AgDev01 (edited 5/6/2014 12:18p).]
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LawAg05
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1:39p, 5/6/14
AG
I hope Quentyn is written off. He offers nothing to the overall story and just gets himself barbecued. The writers can easily come up with another way to release the dragons without introducing another prince.

Really hope Coldhands makes it to the show. Although I don't see how Bran can make it to the Bloodraven this season and then still bring in CH in season 4. The wight attack occurs before the bloodraven and once Bran gets to the cave, I doubt he ever physically leaves it again.

What the show does with the Bran storyline will tell us significant information about the overall plot still being written.
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aggie93
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1:50p, 5/6/14
AG
redline,

Wise decision to hold off on that info as it would have been a spoiler. Some things in the show are mentioned casually just as they are in the books in hopes that people will forget because so much is going on.

It's also becoming increasingly dangerous to post on that thread because the show and books are going in different directions every episode. Almost half of the last episode was not in the books at all. We don't know what they are going to do, I mean in this next episode they are foreshadowing Stannis in Braavos and Yara fighting with Ramsay, neither of which even remotely happened in the books.
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Malachi Constant
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2:15p, 5/6/14
AG
If CH is Benjen Stark, wouldn't Bran have recognized his uncle?

Also, any speculation on what each of these means? They're all the things Bran saw after he ate the Weirwood paste.

quote:
His young father praying with a bowed head "…let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them, and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive."

A girl and a younger boy play fighting with branches;
A pregnant woman coming out of the black pool praying for a son to avenge her

A slender girl on her toes kissing a knight as tall as Hodor;

A pale, dark-eyed youth cutting three branches from the weirwood and shaping them into arrows

Other lords of Winterfell: tall, hard, stern men in fur and chain mail
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redline248
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2:27p, 5/6/14
AG
quote:
If CH is Benjen Stark, wouldn't Bran have recognized his uncle?


Not if he kept his face and head wrapped the entire time, which I'm pretty sure he did. Plus, Benjen didn't have blue eyes.



quote:
Also, any speculation on what each of these means? They're all the things Bran saw after he ate the Weirwood paste.


My take in bold

quote:
His young father praying with a bowed head "…let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them, and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive." Talking about Robb and Jon

A girl and a younger boy play fighting with branches; Lyanna and Ned/Benjen?
A pregnant woman coming out of the black pool praying for a son to avenge her no idea. Can't remember anything that relates to this

A slender girl on her toes kissing a knight as tall as Hodor; Lyanna and Rhaegar

A pale, dark-eyed youth cutting three branches from the weirwood and shaping them into arrows No idea, the arrows makes me wonder if it's Theon. Could be anyone. I assume male, but it's not made clear.

Other lords of Winterfell: tall, hard, stern men in fur and chain mail unimportant?
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Zeke1995
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2:33p, 5/6/14
AG
quote:
A slender girl on her toes kissing a knight as tall as Hodor
Ser Duncan the Tall and Old Nan (though she was not so old at the time).
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redline248
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2:46p, 5/6/14
AG
Is that some stuff from outside the main novels?
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Greeze06
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2:52p, 5/6/14
AG
I think that they might be accelerating Brand story and possibly use that channel to give visions and insight/backstory into some of the arcs. Especially since he sees past, future and present.

Keeps his storyline going.
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Zeke1995
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2:55p, 5/6/14
AG
quote:
Is that some stuff from outside the main novels?


Old Nan is the old woman telling Bran stories in GOT. She is Hodor's great-grandmother.

Ser Duncan is from the Hedge Knight series, which takes place in Westeros about 100 years before GOT starts. It is subtly revealed in AFFC that Brienne is somehow descended from Ser Duncan as well.
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redline248
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3:12p, 5/6/14
AG
I know who old Nan is. I was asking if the potential romance between her and Duncan was something that takes place in those hedge knight stories.

All that other stuff is speculation. Or can you provide clear evidence that Nan is Hodor's relative our Duncan is related to Brienne?
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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3:30p, 5/6/14
Why is everyone so fixated on Cold Hands?
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Zeke1995
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3:35p, 5/6/14
AG
quote:
can you provide clear evidence that Nan is Hodor's relative our Duncan is related to Brienne?


Briene -- Martin said in an interview that he'd reveal that one character is descended from Ser Duncan. She is freakishly tall, and, IIRC in AFFC he went into great detail specifying how a unique shield she found seemed to speak to her, and she had the painting on it restored (tree in front of setting sun).

Hodor -- One of the books mentions that Nan is his great-grandmother (Hodor's name is really "Walder") and, as far as being descended from Ser Duncan, he is freakishly tall, and, well, that's all I got.

[This message has been edited by Zeke1995 (edited 5/6/2014 2:36p).]
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G.I.Bro
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4:12p, 5/6/14
He's tall BC he's part giant
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The Debt
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4:31p, 5/6/14
Quentyn was one of the only action moments in, an otherwise, tedious book.

People are complaining about 2 of the first 4 episodes of this season as boring, imagine when half a damn season is boring.
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aggie93
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4:46p, 5/6/14
AG
Other loose evidence that Hodor is related to Ser Duncan:

The last D&E story ends with them about to travel to Winterfell.

Old Nan talks to Bran about stories of "Ser Duncan the Tall".

Old Nan is the right age.
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Zeke1995
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4:48p, 5/6/14
AG
Old Nan also cut loose in the "Smallfolk Gone Wild" series back in the day.
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Kampfers
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5:26p, 5/6/14
AG
quote:
His young father praying with a bowed head "…let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them, and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive." Robb and Jon, agreed

A girl and a younger boy play fighting with branches; Lyanna and Benjen. They were the close and its rumored he may have aided or had knowledge of her running off with Rhaegar and thus felt guilty - his commitment to the Nights Watch was his penance.

A pregnant woman coming out of the black pool praying for a son to avenge her haven't seen any good theories about this

A slender girl on her toes kissing a knight as tall as Hodor; Agree with the others, it's old nan and ser duncan the tall

A pale, dark-eyed youth cutting three branches from the weirwood and shaping them into arrows best theory i have seen with this relates to how Bloodraven was such an excellent archer. Since you can warg into weirwood trees, the theory posits that you can warg into weirwood arrows and direct their flight. This scene shows a young Stark cutting arrows to kill the dragons of Aegeon the Conqueror before Torrhen Stark decides to kneel instead of fight.

edit to clarify more - the theory holds that Brandon Snow, ******* brother of Torrhen Stark, offered to sneak into Aegon's camp and kill all 3 dragons (this was mentioned by GRRM at some event). The theory part of it rests on the belief that he would have done so using the weirwood arrows.


as far as the last one goes there is some theory that it is a reference to the fact that the northerners used to make blood sacrifices to the weirwood trees, and that is what it shows. idk, but I'll throw it out there. You failed to copy part of the relevant text though. It's paraphrased below

quote:
Tall, hard, stern men with beards in fur and chain mail forcing a captive down on his knees. A white haired woman killing the captive with a bronze sickle.


Could reference a COF, or just an old woman, but the bronze weapon would imply it being pre-Andal.

[This message has been edited by Kampfers (edited 5/6/2014 4:38p).]
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redline248
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5:49p, 5/6/14
AG
I hate theories that are largely based on secondary sources, such as hedge knight or dunk and egg. I view information from those sources as pretty unimportant to the overall story/plot in A Song of Ice and Fire.

Deal with it.
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G.I.Bro
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6:00p, 5/6/14
That's stupid
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redline248
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6:11p, 5/6/14
AG
Deal with it. If it was important he'd put it in the real novels.
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The Dog Lord
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6:27p, 5/6/14
AG
quote:
Deal with it. If it was important he'd put it in the real novels.

So you think any information not in the main series, even if from the author in a novella, the upcoming "A World of Ice and Fire", or an interview is irrelevant...bold move cotton.
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redline248
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6:29p, 5/6/14
AG
Yep. You think it's important who Hodor is related to?

Not sure how that icon was clicked

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 5/6/2014 5:29p).]
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