I have 2 Non Readers at work that I talk with every Monday and one already had the Viper/Mountain thing down and told the other. It's pretty obvious with the episode title and the previews.

From the other thread. Man, this guy is in for some frustration.

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In this episode we had Dany stall. This is becoming a permanent fixture of the show. I don't really care about anything she does unless she she attacks the actual relevant continent.

Then we had Ironborn stall. This is the worst part of the show. The Ironborn are ugly, stupid, and poor. Totally irrelevant in every way. Why do they even exist? I guess to serve the Stall-master writer's main tactic.

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He then lauded the Iron Bank part as the only significant part of the episode...

I find it interesting that Tyrion is basically committing suicide or calling a very dangerous bluff here. In the books Oberyn offers to fight for him before he demands trial by combat. He already knows someone will fight for him when he makes the demand. In the show, he has to think theres a very real chance that he's gonna end up out in a field with a dagger and a shield and the Mountain (or any other oderately skilled fighter even) charging him down because there's nobody willing to fight for him.

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 5/12/2014 7:23p).]

It isn't dangerous. They made it seem that his fate was already completely determined and death was a sure thing. This was his only play.

Jamie told him he would be sent to the wall if he was found guilty.

You have to assume he still thinks he can get Bronn to fight for him. We haven't had the scene in which Bronn tells Tyrion there is nothing left to gain from helping Tyrion.

Maybe, but Bronn is who he trusted to put Shae on a ship.

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 5/12/2014 9:10p).]

You raise a good point. Up to the Shae's testimony Tyrion had no reason to distrust Bronn. Did Cersei/Tywin buy him off before the wedding?

Also, did Varys visit Tyrion yet in his cell on the show?

redline with the good points as usual.

So far, on the show, Tyrion may still believe that Bronn has his back. Anyone could have intervened to keep Shae from sailing off. Varys has not met with Tyrion in his cell as of yet. So I think it is logical to assume, for the show writers, that the assumption is that Bronn will fight for him. Which adds more buildup to Bronn either denying him his sword or just cutting off communication. In steps the Viper. It makes for "better tv" than Oberyn laying down his cards to Tyrion ahead of him declaring for single combat.

This part of the show I am enjoying. Asha's (Yara) exploits into the North seemed to only reinforce how utterly mind-f***ed Theon has become under the imprisonment of Ramsey.


Also, I think the trip to Braavos by Stannis and Davos was more foretelling of what to expect in TWOW. ADWD ended with no real indication if the Bank of Braavos would fund sellsword companies for Stannis. He met with the banker but that is all that was known. It seems they are going to bypass that portion or speed it up. last episode would lead you to believe that the Bank of Braavos is going to side with Stannis, therefore providing the coin he needs to raise sellswords.

All of this leads to my thinking that Stannis will be bolstered by sellsword companies from Essos, the Manderleys, and other northern houses and actually hold his own if not take down the Boltons and the Freys in the north. I think this is necessary to promoting a scenario by which all of Westeros is in complete and utter chaos again when the WW's descend on the wall, blow it apart with the horn, and march south.

of course I could be completely and utterly wrong.

It's always interesting to see how the tv show varies from the books, and what it tells is that the books didn't.

Bravos' intro graphic was sweet.

I'm thinking Tyrion's trial-by-combat plan might be to ask his brother to fight for him, knowing his dad and sister would never allow Jaime to die in a situation like that. Then it doesn't work for some reason, so the viper fills in - an then I can't wait to see the mountain and the viper battle.

Unfortunately, I think the death of the viper was a turning point in the books where things when from awesome to aimless. After that, we have a whole lot of nothing in Mereen, Jaime making peace in the west, tyrion's escape (which will be awesome) but then his wandering around the east is pretty damn boring, arya's bravos Schtick is a snooze, Dorne events never go anywhere and feel like filler, baelish pushing someone out the moon door then doing nothing, brienne's utterly pointless wanderings, and some fighting in the north.

There are still some good moments coming up, but am I the only one who feels the story is about to hit it's peak?

I hope they continue to take increasing liberties getting away from the books next year to bolster those storylines up.

[This message has been edited by Aggie_journalist (edited 5/13/2014 2:05a).]

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There are still some good moments coming up, but am I the only one who feels the story is about to hit it's peak?

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It's a valid concern from the show's standpoint. With the Red Wedding to end season 3, and then the events that have/will occur in this season, it's hard to follow that level of shock and excitement if they stick with the books. Sure there are some interesting storylines that follow ASoS, but for the casual tv only fan I'm not sure how they will take it.

The show may start taking even more liberties with the story or fast-forward some to keep interest. I think the events surrounding Jon and Stannis at the wall will be good. Bran's story might be interesting or boring depending on how they play it. Same with Arya's. Dany's is mostly going to be boring except for the dragons.

Could they stretch Jon's storyline into season 5? Looks like they haven't really begun to put the pieces in place for him to take over as Lord Commander this season.

[This message has been edited by G Martin 87 (edited 5/13/2014 8:00a).]

Especially with Thorne serving as acting commander right now. They have to get that resolved.

Janos Slynt mentioned to Thorne that Jon is popular and he isn't, and if he wasn't careful he would end up serving him for the rest of his life. One of the reasons he endorsed his mission to Craster's Keep is because he was hoping Jon would be killed. They've also already mentioned that there will eventually be a vote for a new commander. I think Jon is elected Lord Commander before the end of the season. That helps set up part of his story for the following season.

Next season is pivotal for the show in so many ways. You have several characters that aren't coming back, 2 of which are "favorites" in Tywin and Red Viper. You have lots of new characters and storylines that are beginning and a huge divergence in so many ways from how the show started.

How do they deal with the Ironborn? If they cast Euron, Damphair, and Victarion well it could be pretty cool actually.

Dorne is another big new adventure. Arianne is a key casting there as well and Doran is as well. I think they shorten up some of the storylines there and the Sand Snakes will also be key. I'm honestly surprised they mentioned he had 8 children, that's a lot of casting.

You have Samwell's storyline with Maester Aemon and Gilly traveling to Braavos and the Citadel.

You have Young Griff and Jon Connington with Septa Lemore hooking up with Tyrion and then Tyrion's travels from Pentos to Volantis to Mereen.

You have everything going on at the Wall with Jon and Stannis arriving.

You have the Boltons moving on to Winterfell with Theon.

You have Bran chilling out with the Three Eyed Raven.

You have Lady Stoneheart.

You have Brienne and Pod running around the country and bumping in to Sam's Dad.

You have Quentin Martell and his pointless adventure to see Dany only to become dragon toast.

You have the events at the Citadel with the reappearance of Jaquen H'gar.

You have all the events in Kings Landing with Cersei and the High Septon and Jaime before he leaves.

You have LF and Sansa doing not very much in the Vale.

You have Dany getting entrenched in the Meerenese Knot.

You have the introduction of Lord Manderly.

That's an insanely large cast they have to keep up with and a ridiculous amount of different sets and storylines, several can wait until Season 6 but damn. I'm probably still forgetting a couple. They are going to have to make some really tough decisions on what to cut and compress and what to expand.

I would be surprised if they had Jon elected LC this season, it would be very rushed. They need to have the battle at CB, Stannis arriving, calling of the folks from Eastwatch and Shadow Tower, etc. I just don't know how they do all of that in 4 episodes without rushing.

They also really need to save some drama for next season.

seems like Jon wont be LC til next season. They can really stretch some stuff out, like they did for the Purple Wedding. Make big events be the last 20-30 minutes of an episode and you pad out your season.

Really hope they include the Greyjoy subplot, but isn't seeming likely.

In a perfect world, we'd have a round table forum of Joffrey, Ramsay Snow and Euron Grejoy to determine who's the biggest psycho.

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They need to have the battle at CB, Stannis arriving, calling of the folks from Eastwatch and Shadow Tower, etc. I just don't know how they do all of that in 4 episodes without rushing.

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I forgot about all of those things happening before he was elected (currently on my second reread of the series). With how the show is going though, they don't necessarily need to do things in the same order. I would assume that the attack on CB would come first though and it isn't going to happen for a few more episodes (maybe 9?). I just thought it might be something they did sooner rather than later because of the discussion so far this season with Thorne.

Someone recap the Ironborn situation for me. Honestly, I got really bored during their debates about electing a new king, and I think I must've glossed over everything. I keep seeing people talk about that story line, and I honestly have no idea what's going on with them. I only recall GRRM introducing about 10 new characters, all the while I'm just trying to find out WTF is going on with Tyrion and John Snow.

From AWOIAF:

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A Feast for Crows
Meanwhile King Balon has died from a fall at Pyke, just a day before Euron Crow's Eye returns from his long voyage. Aeron calls the first kingsmoot in millennia, hoping that Victarion will succeed Balon to the Seastone Chair. Euron is crowned, however, beating out Asha, Victarion, and several other claimants by promising to conquer all the green lands with the power of his Dragon Horn. Aeron disappears, vowing to rouse the people against the "godless" Euron.
Euron escalates ironborn commitment in the continental war by launching a massive attack on the Reach, conquering the Shield Islands and parts of the Arbor, and threatening Oldtown. Victarion leads the attack on the Shields, but Euron steals away many of his trusted men by granting them lands on the Shield Islands. Euron goes on to ask Victarion to sail the Iron Fleet across the world to find Daenerys Targaryen to court her in his name. Victarion sets out, but secretly hopes to take Daenerys for himself.

A Dance with Dragons
During his arduous voyage Victarion rescues the red priest Moqorro, who converts him to the faith of R'hllor, supplementing his worship of the Drowned God. In the North, Theon is revealed to have been suffered horrific mind-shattering torture in the captivity of Ramsay Snow, now Ramsay Bolton, at the Dreadfort. Theon is released from the Dreadfort to perform a mission for Ramsay, who has warped the man's sense of identity and formed him into a broken creature. He is sent to Moat Cailin to treat with the ironborn garrison there, where he succeeds in getting them to surrender by promising safe passage. Ramsay reneges and flays the men alive.
Theon recognizes Ramsay's wife, "Arya Stark", as Jeyne Poole and develops a tenuous rapport with her during the tense Bolton occupation of Winterfell. He reluctantly teams with Mance Rayder to free her from the castle; they escape but are captured outside by Mors Umber, who is now sworn to Stannis Baratheon. Meanwhile Asha has returned to hold Deepwood Motte, but is defeated and captured in a sudden attack by King Stannis and the Northern mountain clans. She is brought along with Stannis's army as he marches to the Siege of Winterfell. There she finds Theon alive.

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^That's a fantastic idea to keep the character around, but if he doesn't die, then Tyrion's escape story isn't set in motion. I guess something else could start it like Cersei trying to have him killed anyway and Jamie running to warn him/help him escape.

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Theon is released from the Dreadfort to perform a mission for Ramsay, who has warped the man's sense of identity and formed him into a broken creature. He is sent to Moat Cailin to treat with the ironborn garrison there, where he succeeds in getting them to surrender by promising safe passage. Ramsay reneges and flays the men alive.

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Man, I had forgotten about that. I guess we're full on mixing books in this series (as if that weren't already obvious).

HBO is definitely going to be delving into new material before Martin releases the book. I'm excited to watch this kick ass show without the benefit of knowing what's coming. I kind of wish I'd never read the books...

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HBO is definitely going to be delving into new material before Martin releases the book

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I don't know. They are taking their time. I really thought we'd have the wildling attack from the south by now. This season isn't going much past the last half of book 3, with the exception of giving us all the Theon stuff that was presented as flashback.

Yeah certain storylines are almost caught up with book 4/5 material whereas others are still in book 3. Certain storylines can be drawn out though even if they are almost "caught up." For instance, if the Theon/Moat Cailin thing happens this season, there is still all of the Winterfell/Stannis story to go.

Umm...the wildling battle occurs prior to the election on the Lord Commander. And we will get that battle this season, maybe even by ep8. Remember the season previews, we got to see the giant crashing into the portacullis in the Wall.

Episode 9 is called The Watchers on the Wall, it's probably gonna be like Blackwater was where the whole episode is focused there

What's left out of that summation above about the Greyjoys is that Asha is married off to some old geezer after Euron becomes king, but is given the idea by Tristan Botley that she could call another Kingsmoot because Theon wasn't there, as one of Balon's natural heirs. She is just about to tell her men that when they come under attack.

Also that Victarion decides halfway across the ocean that it's going to be him marrying Danerys, not Euron. His fleet gets thrown to hell by storms, but they end up taking a bunch of other ships that are caught unawares by this giant fleet arriving. The Iron Fleet is right outside Mereen when ADWD ends.

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Episode 9 is called The Watchers on the Wall, it's probably gonna be like Blackwater was where the whole episode is focused there

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and also directed by Neil Marshall, the same guy that directed Blackwater. almost assuredly will be the attack on Castle Black.

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Umm...the wildling battle occurs prior to the election on the Lord Commander

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If you were replying to me, I was talking about the small group that Jon went over the wall with attacking by now. That's why I said "from the south"

So we've all been trying to figure out what the last episode title "The Children" means. With the battle of CB taking place right before this episode, maybe it alludes to Gilly's baby and Wildling Hottie Queen's baby? I also think the shepherd's kid that gets killed by Dany's drag would be a good choice, and the COTF.

I did like how in the book Tyrion knew he had a little more to play. Wasn't his first thought was to immediately ask for trial by combat, but found out Cersei had bought Bronn off by then.

So he had no choice but to go through with the trial by words, and when it was looking dim, the Viper then visited him and made the offer.

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So we've all been trying to figure out what the last episode title "The Children" means.

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I'm guessing it will focus on either Dany and her dragons, The Other/WW babies, or The Children of The Forest (Bran story-line)...if not all of these.

Potential Episode 10 Spoilers

Found this interview online with GoT Director, Alex Graves:
http://www.latintimes.com/game-thrones-spoilers-season-4-finale-children-big-one-says-director-alex-graves-166499-

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Despite the success of the series’ “episode 9 format” it is going to change for Season 4. Alex Graves, who directs the Season 4 finale, told the Huffington Post, “Wait till you see episode 10. The finale is really a finale. It’s not the episode after episode nine, it’s the big one.” Bigger than the Red Wedding? At first I thought it impossible! Then I considered the episode title “The Children,” which I then compared to Season 3 finale title “Mysha” and began to get an indication of what fans can expect. “Mysha” which translates to “mother” was the term given to Daenerys Targaryen after liberating the slaves in Essos. So it’s safe to say that the Season 4 finale “The Children” plays off of that comparison. However, fans should remember that Daenerys received a prophecy that her womb will never bear a living child, but she is the Mother of Dragons. So the Season 4 finale, “The Children” most certainly will revolve around Daenerys and her dragons whom she considers her children. After listening to what Graves described for the Season 4 finale, our dragon theory seems even more likely.

“It’s by far the largest episode that they’ve ever made,” Alex says. “The tectonics and the story are the largest that have ever happened, and that’s not counting the x-number of battle sequences, x-number of gigantic digital effects sequences, and x-number of how many characters are alive and standing and even on the continent when it’s over. It’s a big one.”

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Also, HBO confirmed this episode will run 66min in length.

[This message has been edited by beagle2009 (edited 5/13/2014 3:28p).]