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Are you saying White Walkers migrate?

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African or European White Walkers?

Mchensel, in the book Dany was boning Daario every friggin day.

ok, i forget, but that proves nothing either.

you don't have to get pregnant every time.

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you don't have to get pregnant every time.

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Can we tone down the spoilers here? Unwed teens might have access to this forum.

lol - fine let's just say it might not be easy for her to get pregnant...or she may be healing still...

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Mchensel, in the book Dany was boning Daario every friggin day.

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Yeah, and a couple of months later appears to have a miscarriage (last Dany chapter). I don't think she's barren, although it's certainly not clear one way or another from the text. But it's definitely not canon. She "thinks" she's barren, but who knows.

A lot of folks seem to think that Quenton Martell was the sun that "rises in the west and sets in the east", what with a sun being his sigil and all. Whole lot of wasted real estate on that guy just to fulfill a throwaway prophecy line though so maybe not.

Born in the west, died in the east... Sounds like a GRRM foreshadow to me...

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you don't have to get pregnant every time.

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Can we tone down the spoilers here? Unwed teens might have access to this forum.

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Dany is told she won't get preggo again until the seas run dry and the mountains fly like dust in the wind - but that could be some sort of metaphor, like Bran seeing Winterfell flooded by the sea.

I think Kevan's best advice to Tommen would be "DUCK!"

Hm ok I stand corrected on my claim. I guess I took Mirri Maz Durr at her word and went forward thinking Dany is barren

But regardless, I don't want her ruling at the end. I think her trajectory at the end of ADwD changed so drastically anyway that she'll end up the next crazy sadistic Targ like her dad, but with dragons

Don't you remember her final chapter she was like "Ok, I've f_cked around over here long enough."

Yeah, I took that to mean "**** this politics ****, I have huge dragons that I can ride"

I'm a big believer that the theme of the entire series is that history repeats itself. She'll be Aegon the Conqueror reborn, book it

so weird...i don't get dany haters and those bored with her story...she has always been my favorite (of possible rulers in the end)....and i've just been waiting for her return to Westeros. I've always figured that was the real story and everything else was just window dressing until that time....partly i suppose because of the history of dragons and the fact that she has them.

and i guess it's because she came from nothing - she assumed it was her brother taht would rule and she was subordinate to him more or less, then had no army, no family left, lost everything husband, child, even the majority of the followers of drogo and all she had was an unrelenting belief in who she was and her dragon eggs....and then she walked into a fire to prove her point.


i root for the underdogs...all the other kings had something - armies, money, names, titles, lands, bloodlines, and some claim to the throne.

thats the reason i root for Jon too - the b'tard (who likely isn't) and has/had nothing sacrificed all for the realm (taking the black and standing on the wall).

and tyrion - the imp who is hated by his own family, disavowed, falsely accused, a fugitive, never given credit for his smarts or battle worthiness.


i've been pulling for those 3 since book 1 - whew made it through 5 books....and jon is still alive I believe as i said earlier if GRRM wanted him dead he would be obviously dead not reportedly dead.




[This message has been edited by mchensel (edited 6/11/2014 8:07p).]

I like underdogs, but I think the character arc Martin is best at is redemption. Hence Jaime and Theon are my two favorites

And Jon Connington and Barristan, as well. Hoping Jorah gets to that point eventually.

i like jaime and theon...but i think both are toast.


jaime because of the prophecy - cersei's that her little brother will kill her (i assume thats jaime, not tyrion which is too obvious) and he will then kill himself in sorrow. my bet is a trial by combat where he is forced to kill her combatant then kills himself. it's for the best as he knows she is a monster. her prohecy said she would outlive all her children but they would be kings and queens - well 2/3 already. and then the way she was born just before jaime, i think she dies just before jaime. fittingly.

theon - he will have some great redemption i agree. maybe in defense of jon. but will also die.

Jaime I agree with, for the same reason you mentioned.

Theon, I'm not so sure...he's already been through events worse than death. Wouldn't be surprised to see him make it through.

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Jaime I agree with, for the same reason you mentioned.

Theon, I'm not so sure...he's already been through events worse than death. Wouldn't be surprised to see him make it through.

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Same here. Sure Theon is a redemption character, but he is also one of those characters like Jon, Dany, & Tyrion who really hasn't ever had anything. He was a ward of the Starks who never quite fit in, his family basically crapped on him when he came back, and then the events with Ramsay. Yes he did some dickish stuff, but he has paid for it. I always hated his character, but I hope he makes it now.

Theon is a piece of shtt. I'm not rooting for him just b/c he was tortured by an even bigger, psychotic piece of shtt.

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And Jon Connington and Barristan, as well. Hoping Jorah gets to that point eventually.

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What does Barristan need redemption for?

Letting 4 kings die?

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Mchensel, in the book Dany was boning Daario every friggin day.

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Yeah, and a couple of months later appears to have a miscarriage (last Dany chapter). I don't think she's barren, although it's certainly not clear one way or another from the text. But it's definitely not canon. She "thinks" she's barren, but who knows.

A lot of folks seem to think that Quenton Martell was the sun that "rises in the west and sets in the east", what with a sun being his sigil and all. Whole lot of wasted real estate on that guy just to fulfill a throwaway prophecy line though so maybe not.

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Whoa, I completely missed this when reading the chapter. I guess I just took it as her time of the month, but apparently she had missed 2-3. That's why I read this thread, so much I am sure I missed.

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Letting 4 kings die?

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What 4 would those be?

Aerys: He was not in King's Landing to stop Jaime
Rhaegar: Not a king (and I'm not sure we know what happened to Barristan at the Trident)
Robert: Fat and drunk and ordering everyone to leave the boar to him. This one is your only real argument.
Joffrey: Dismissed Barristan and tried to have him arrested and/or executed.

Or did you have others in mind?

it's a different sort of redemption, i think - not really in our eyes as readers, but in his own eyes. the whole reason he's allied with Dany is because he wants to do right by those he serves, and she's his last real chance

he's one of the rare honorable-but-not-unflinchingly-rigid characters (see: Ned, Stannis :P)

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Looks like he's answering the "who ya want on the throne" question. Maybe he forgot about that chapter with Kevan?

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Yeah I remember Varys killing him and Pycelle. I meant, a Tommen that takes more after Kevan and not his mom. I hope Tommen doesn't get axed. Most of the characters who want to be king are bad. Tommen is a clean slate.

If the prophecy is true at all then tommen is doomed. Sad to say. He might be a decent king.

As Tyrion says if you've come looking for justice you've come to the wrong place.

stannis is neither honorable nor not-unflinchingly rigid

I really hat that guy

Me too. He is the uber suck

This last page has made me realize I hate almost everyone.

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What 4 would those be?

Aerys: He was not in King's Landing to stop Jaime
Rhaegar: Not a king (and I'm not sure we know what happened to Barristan at the Trident)
Robert: Fat and drunk and ordering everyone to leave the boar to him. This one is your only real argument.
Joffrey: Dismissed Barristan and tried to have him arrested and/or executed.

Or did you have others in mind?

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My argument was based on page 736 of A Dance With Dragons in a chapter entitled "The Queensguard" in which Ser Barristan Selmy says in an inner monologue.

"It was his failures that haunted him at night, though. Jaehaerys, Aerys, Robert. Three dead kings. Rhaegar, who would have been a finer king than any of them."

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stannis is neither honorable nor not-unflinchingly rigid

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Honorable is questionable, I'll agree. But to say he's not rigid seems odd. That's what he's best known for

Yeah honorable is certainly questionable, but the guy is certainly rigid, stubborn, and has a very strict sense of "justice". you could argue the only "dishonorable" thing he did was have his brother killed, the same brother that attempted to jump him in the line of succession and raise an army against him and the Iron Throne, a throne he viewed as rightfully his.

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What does Barristan need redemption for?

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Didn't he say that he wants to be redeemed for essentially turning his back on the Targ family and accepting his pardon from King Robert and becoming his Commander of the King's Guard. I thought that was the whole reason he sought out Dany...to redeem himself to her and the Targ family, not for "letting 4 kings die..."

I could be wrong...