I'm not saying Hodor's ancestor is important, but there are definitely other characters or story lines that can be better understood, predicted, etc. based on the additional information regarding past people and events.
***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***
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Last: 10 yr ago by Twelfthman
Hodor is the best character in ASOIF. Of course his ancestry is important.
[This message has been edited by bkkeim (edited 5/6/2014 5:52p).]
[This message has been edited by bkkeim (edited 5/6/2014 5:52p).]
Well, most of it isn't important. Bran's vision of Nan and Dunk (if that's who it was) and Brienne finding Ser Duncan's shield aren't particularly important to the story of ASOIAF. They're just a connection between the stories, and add more detail for people who have read both. Even the information about Bloodraven and the Blackfyre Rebellion - things that do come into play in ASOIAF - is just backstory. If you read Dunk and Egg, you get a better understanding of the events that shaped the "current" world of Westeros.
I don't see Dunk & Egg being required reading for understanding what's going on in ASOIAF. But it's the same universe with interconnected characters.
[This message has been edited by Jenn96 (edited 5/6/2014 8:10p).]
I don't see Dunk & Egg being required reading for understanding what's going on in ASOIAF. But it's the same universe with interconnected characters.
[This message has been edited by Jenn96 (edited 5/6/2014 8:10p).]
I always thought we were just supposed to glean from those visions that WeirBran could see the past all the way back as the trees were ancient.
"A pregnant woman coming out of the black pool praying for a son to avenge her"
I have nothing to back this up, but it sounds like Stonehart coming out of the river, and maybe a legitimized Jon Snow is the one to avenge her. Nothing on the pregnancy tip, though.
"A pregnant woman coming out of the black pool praying for a son to avenge her"
I have nothing to back this up, but it sounds like Stonehart coming out of the river, and maybe a legitimized Jon Snow is the one to avenge her. Nothing on the pregnancy tip, though.
The Dunk and Egg stories are great, but they really aren't very important for knowing what's going on. Not sure what's with the venom against them by certain posters though lol.
quote:
I think this entire show is two nerds in college playing a dungeons and dragons-type game. The two nerds are Little Finger and Lord Varys
From the NONspoiler, how true this is...
Bran might be a player too, but we don't know yet...
quote:quote:
I think this entire show is two nerds in college playing a dungeons and dragons-type game. The two nerds are Little Finger and Lord Varys
From the NONspoiler, how true this is...
Bran might be a player too, but we don't know yet...
Nah it's GRRM playing D&D IRL with controlling two characters who are playing D&D in the first level of the story, controlling characters in the second level of the story.
*cue inception music*
Thank you to those that answered my questions on the previous page. Just came in to check.
Anyone else wonder why bran doesn't get summer to bring them a deer or something when he wargs into him?
I finally saw the latest episode last night. I kept getting trolled (or catfished as another poster wrote) into thinking Coldhands was arriving. My wife asked why I was so excited to see Coldhands appear as she doesn't see it as an important character. I don't think he is very important, but I could imagine his debut on screen as killing the mutineers, or now some wildlings, walking up to Bran(or Bran and crew). The audience expects some kind of fight with a walker, and then Coldhands speaks or sheaths his sword. End the scene and episode with the TV audience wondering if the Others are going to be friendly to Bran.
quote:
Anyone else wonder why bran doesn't get summer to bring them a deer or something when he wargs into him?
There was a hole arc where Bran was more interested in just experiencing running and hunting than actually controlling Summer. Can't remember if he finally got around to exerting more control by the time Coldhands showed up with them.
As far as the show goes, they haven't seemed to be struggling for food yet or anything.
I am way more bummed there is no Strong Belwas than Coldhands.
quote:
I am way more bummed there is no Strong Belwas than Coldhands.
Agreed.
Strong Belwas was in my mind an important character and I would have been interested to see who they would have chosen to play him. It will be interesting to see how they approach the attempted poisoning.
They could have Daney give the dates to some random former slave, that person dies, dragons come, Bariston still puts it together later.
Dates? It's supposed to be locusts! They're ruining the books! /booknazi
My guess is Daaaaario takes the place of all Strong Belwas parts.... he already did when he killed the champion.
I think Apache is right. That makes the most sense and it would allow Dany-Daario to start some type of Florence Nightingale type romance.
What do we know about the Old Gods?
We already know that the Seven and hundreds of gods are part of the multifaced god.
But the old gods never really fit into those personalities. If they are just a passive aspect of the one true god.
I have understood that R'hllor (fire) and the Great Other (ice) are both aspects of the one-true god. But the old gods, Im not certain are part of the Braavosi one-god. They seem like a different type of magic as the R'hllor. Warging, greenseeing, extended life (as a tree) is not something that is evil or good.
We already know that the Seven and hundreds of gods are part of the multifaced god.
But the old gods never really fit into those personalities. If they are just a passive aspect of the one true god.
I have understood that R'hllor (fire) and the Great Other (ice) are both aspects of the one-true god. But the old gods, Im not certain are part of the Braavosi one-god. They seem like a different type of magic as the R'hllor. Warging, greenseeing, extended life (as a tree) is not something that is evil or good.
Much like the theme with his characters, I'm not sure if Martin has placed good or evil on his religions either. I keep going back to Melisandre and Thoros. They follow the same god, but one of them seems to have more evil powers than the other.
As far as the white walkers go, can we be sure they even have a god? We really only have Mel's perspective on that. I guess it's likely, cuz where the hell else would they have come from?
I can't figure the old gods out either. Don't remember if there was a representation of them in Bravos. The magic that I assume is attributed to them is pretty real, though.
Really, the 7 are the only ones that seem to have no power associated with them.
As far as the white walkers go, can we be sure they even have a god? We really only have Mel's perspective on that. I guess it's likely, cuz where the hell else would they have come from?
I can't figure the old gods out either. Don't remember if there was a representation of them in Bravos. The magic that I assume is attributed to them is pretty real, though.
Really, the 7 are the only ones that seem to have no power associated with them.
I thought the dynamic between R'hllor and the Great Other is a dualism that exists within the multi-faced god. I thought that was spelled out.
But if we listen to our first braavosi, the multifaced god is Death. So you might be right that R'hllor may not be good in the cosmic sense. But as far as not-icy humans, R'hllor is the side we want to win.
Unless there is another way...like say not the god of Death.
I guess it comes down to the question is all magic related to religion?
- Valyrians/dragons probably followed the mysticism that still exists in Ashia
- Blood magic seems to consort with demons (Varys wang, Drogo's salvation)
- Melisandre is clearly religious in nature, as is Thoros/Catelyn.
- Warging?
- Greensight?
- Those candles that would make ravenry obsolete?
But if we listen to our first braavosi, the multifaced god is Death. So you might be right that R'hllor may not be good in the cosmic sense. But as far as not-icy humans, R'hllor is the side we want to win.
Unless there is another way...like say not the god of Death.
I guess it comes down to the question is all magic related to religion?
- Valyrians/dragons probably followed the mysticism that still exists in Ashia
- Blood magic seems to consort with demons (Varys wang, Drogo's salvation)
- Melisandre is clearly religious in nature, as is Thoros/Catelyn.
- Warging?
- Greensight?
- Those candles that would make ravenry obsolete?
This wiki poses the idea that Bran and the Old Gods are agents of the Great Other.
It would explain that how a cripple and a few kids were able to survive the WW-filled North. Coldhands is a WW.
Oh shtt. Bran fell for it.
quote:
There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. 'Never fear the darkness, Bran.' The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."
It would explain that how a cripple and a few kids were able to survive the WW-filled North. Coldhands is a WW.
Oh shtt. Bran fell for it.
quote:Bran gets these visions when he is asleep. The three-eyed raven comes to him in dreams...
According to Melisandre sleep is a little death, dreams and whispering of the Other who would drag everyone into his eternal night.
There are conflicts to that as well though. For instance the CoTF fought with the First Men against the Others and were known to carry dragonglass weapons. It doesn't make sense that they would then worship Bloodraven as they do.
There is also some connection to the ravens and magic as well that is more complicated than them simply knowing how to take messages from one point to another.
There is also some connection to the ravens and magic as well that is more complicated than them simply knowing how to take messages from one point to another.
The roots in the deep of the earth speech could just be more in line with a yin/yang philosophy. Trees need both soil and light to live. The line could just be meant to say don't fear the dark; not the dark is the only thing you need.
Who knows
PUBLISH WINDS OF WINTER ALREADY!!!!!
Who knows
PUBLISH WINDS OF WINTER ALREADY!!!!!
quote:
I thought the dynamic between R'hllor and the Great Other is a dualism that exists within the multi-faced god. I thought that was spelled out.
Like I said, I don't remember all the stuff that Arya learned in Bravos...but for the most part what we know about that dualism is told from Melisandre, and I'm not convinced she knows everything she's talking about.
For discussion's sake, why should we be any more willing to believe that Rhllor/Great Other are any more real than the 7 or Old gods or anyone else's interpretation of religion?
I've read all the books but I don't know anything about half of the stuff on this thread the last 3 pages...
I also wonder about the Drowned God fitting into the picture somehow. Patches was clearly touched by the DG and has visions. Also there are reports of Krakens appearing. So many religions:
The Seven
Old Gods
R'hllor
Drowned God
Multi Faced God
Dothraki Gods
Another interesting sideline is what is going to happen with the Faith Militant. They don't have magic but they do have a lot of followers.
The Seven
Old Gods
R'hllor
Drowned God
Multi Faced God
Dothraki Gods
Another interesting sideline is what is going to happen with the Faith Militant. They don't have magic but they do have a lot of followers.
I find the Faith Militant very interesting. Even though unbeatable Robert Strong is going to be Cersei's champion, I can't imagine the new High Septon is just going to roll out Joe the Normal Solider Guy to fight him.
I really need a Cliff's Notes of these books. I don't remember half the crap y'all talk about on here. How many times have you guys read the books?
I've read 1-3 twice, 4&5 once. Trying to read the last 2 again.
ive read them each 3 times or so, but I like to pick them up and read passages now and again, just to remember how different it is from the show or to revisit favorite scenes.
Of course the Wiki helps out enormously.
Of course the Wiki helps out enormously.
quote:
I can't imagine the new High Septon is just going to roll out Joe the Normal Solider Guy to fight him.
If it stays 1 on 1 i'm guessing they use lancel. I don't think it will be single trial by combat though. The book suggested that there was a strong chance for a trial by seven which i can easily see the faith militant using as it evens the odds against Robert Strong, Cersei will have a very tough time getting seven defenders as the kingsguard is scattered thus causing her to forfeit, and the new high septon does everything by seven.
I am gonna be pissed when this whole series ends with an autistic kid staring at a snow globe.
MW,
Cliffnotes of the books?
http://towerofthehand.com/books/guide.html
Between this and the the Wiki of ASOIF it greatly reduces the need for re-reads. You can also just Google stuff and it will usually take you either to the wiki or some discussion on the topic someone has already had on Westeros.org on every crazy theory imaginable.
I am also in the camp that a Trial of Seven is likely and would be awesome, just as it is in the D&E. Would be a nice way to knock off some characters as well. Technically though, I think Cersei's crime is against both the Faith (for killing the High Septon) and the King (for killing Robert). She could have KG both for her and against her.
Personally I am hoping a certain man from the Quiet Isle re-emerges on the side of the Faith to battle Robert Strong.
Cliffnotes of the books?
http://towerofthehand.com/books/guide.html
Between this and the the Wiki of ASOIF it greatly reduces the need for re-reads. You can also just Google stuff and it will usually take you either to the wiki or some discussion on the topic someone has already had on Westeros.org on every crazy theory imaginable.
I am also in the camp that a Trial of Seven is likely and would be awesome, just as it is in the D&E. Would be a nice way to knock off some characters as well. Technically though, I think Cersei's crime is against both the Faith (for killing the High Septon) and the King (for killing Robert). She could have KG both for her and against her.
Personally I am hoping a certain man from the Quiet Isle re-emerges on the side of the Faith to battle Robert Strong.
quote:Well Mel/Thoros make miracles happen because of the Lord of Light. We know some dark entity powers the wights, something reanimates corpses.
For discussion's sake, why should we be any more willing to believe that Rhllor/Great Other are any more real than the 7 or Old gods or anyone else's interpretation of religion?
The Seven seem to made up. They have no power.
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