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so I watched the last episode last night. The scene with the Mountain chopping up all those guys, what the hell was that about? Granted, I was on a treadmill and couldn't hear it well, but did Cercei just gather up random losers for the Mountain to warm up on?

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The point was to re-introduce him since they re-cast him (I think) and all remind people he is a bad ass.

In the books, Arya's chapters clearly establish was a d-bag the Mountain is but I don't know if they came in as clearly during the show, so they added a scene of him slaughtering some fodder.

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Oberyn was clearly not cool and calm right at the end of that ordeal.

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Again this is a hypothetical of what they might do in the show. I agree that they are probably just going to do it the same as the books, but they could easily change it if they wanted to keep him alive.

Again, the fan tears would be delicious.

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Again, the fan tears would be delicious.

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The meltdown would be fantastic. I'm sure HBO thinks the meltdown from tv only fans will be better though if he dies...RIP Red Viper of Dorne.

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No. Just, no. You can't just have Oberyn kill Tywin. Tyrion killing his father is huge. There's a major difference between Tyrion running for his life because his sister wants to kill him, and Tyrion running because he killed his father and Shae.

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Oh yeah, I'd forgotten where Shae fit into the picture of Tyrion killing his father. Ah well

One side benefit for readers next year is to see the non readers freak out when they realize that now that they were finally figuring out who all the characters are that half of them are dead and they have to learn a ton of new ones.

Does anyone agree that Oberyn could "win" by

1)incapacitating the Mountain with deadly poison, either to the point that everyone believes the Mountain is dead, until further investigation is done by Qyburn, ala he turns him into Robert Strong - zombie (if they are even the same person).

2) if Oberyn wins in the way #1 describes, the crown declares him a "cheater" by the use of poison therefore, he gets to live by Tyrion is still locked up and will be banished (remember just because you win your trial by combat doesn't mean you are completely free to do whatever you want). Then Tyrion escapes with Varys help, he kills Tywin and Shea and is off on the run.

Thoughts?

Man, watching the non-spoilers thread is gonna be so great after this season.

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I feel like from a story perspective, Oberyn has to win. If Oberyn loses and Tyrion is killed/exiled from KL to the wall/anything but be free, the story in Kings Landing starts to weaken, without some new character additions. There wouldn't really be any conflict happening in King's Landing, as everyone would be one of Tywin's people. The only interesting stories would be whats happening to everyone else thats off in different corners of the world. In the short term, that would be fine, as we're getting close to our war at the wall, potential reuniting of Sansa/Arya and future Littlefinger drama and what the Hound will do next, Bran and whatever his people are up to these days, and Stannis preparing for a new attack.

*edit: I guess this event could turn Jamie into the conflicting character, as he would not be supportive of Tywin.

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I think the fact that they cast the Mountain with a strongest man competitor instead of an actor who might have future speaking parts tells us who will win. But then again, they could recast him again when they need him to speak in the future.

Just seems too quick to get rid of such an interesting and deep character like Oberyn, who we are just now getting to know.

In before "Ned Stark says hi".

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Man, they've got another thing coming!

These Oberyn theories...

He's gonna get his head smashed in just like in the books.

Nuh uh!

What if Oberyn is Benjen is Daario is Coldhands?!

He's actually a friend of Jaqen. He's a faceless man

He will die. The scene is too great.

He must die because the scene is too great.

in terms of deaths that gut me the most,Oberyn's is third only to Ned and Robb....he was such an awesome character

[This message has been edited by mid90 (edited 5/23/2014 4:55p).]

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If Oberyn loses and Tyrion is killed/exiled from KL to the wall/anything but be free, the story in Kings Landing starts to weaken, without some new character additions. CONFIRMED. There wouldn't really be any conflict happening in King's Landing, as everyone would be one of Tywin's people. CONFIRMED. The only interesting stories would be whats happening to everyone else thats off in different corners of the world. CONFIRMED. IN FACT, HE'S GOING TO INTRODUCE LIKE 10 NEW CHARACTERS. In the short term, that would be fine, as we're getting close to our war at the wall, potential reuniting of Sansa/Arya and future Littlefinger drama and what the Hound will do next, Bran and whatever his people are up to these days, and Stannis preparing for a new attack. CONFIRMED.

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^ I agree with all of that except the King's Landing part (well kind of). I hate the Cersei chapters, but I like Qyburn, the new High Septon, and the small glimpse of Robert Strong.

I don't understand the dislike for Cersei's chapters. Her delusion and resulting fall from grace were awesome, IMO.

I like that part of her storyline overall, but it was just a little too much of her.

I just hate being inside her head because she's so ****ing crazy

You wouldn't mind your head being inside her



Hey-o!

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Again, the fan tears would be delicious.

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I don't get why you think that's a good reason to tell a story a particular way

I don't. It was more an observation borne out of watching folks on reddit flip out when the littlest though was changed, as if they had some ownership over the source material. GRRM changing something that major would make for good internet lurking is all.

Plus, I really liked Oberyn's character.

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Not happening. Episode 9 is the major wildling attack. Stannis shows up by the end of episode 9 and Jon is Lord Commander by the end of episode 10.

No question that's how it plays out.

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You're probably right. And I'm not saying that the Mance attack won't happen on episode 9, but that I wish it wouldn't.

As we know, we don't have anything big to look forward to for the next season... maybe two, unless they bump up the battle for Winterfell and/or Slavers Bay.

It's a shame - I think this season has been the best, but next season will almost certainly be the worst. But I'm hoping they prove me wrong!

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As we know, we don't have anything big to look forward to for the next season... maybe two

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do you really think the tv writers are going to have NOTHING for the next TWO seasons? Cmon, guy.

Imagine telling these things to someone who only watches the show.

Tyrion, after murdering his own father with the help of Varys and Jamie, escapes across the narrow sea where he meets the apparent son of Rhaegar Targareyn. Oh, and he gets captured by Jorah Mormont, who has been exiled by Dany.

Mance Raydar is executed, but not really, and he gets involved in a daring rescue of Arya Stark (oops).

Arya Stark trains to be a bad ass across the Narrow Sea and bumps into Samwell Tarly.

We get to see the Citadel.

Janos Slynt gets ahead of himself.

If they include anything from Dorne or Pyke, you get the Kingsmoot, the plot to put Myrcella on the throne (which could be mega-expanded) or both.

Cersei accuses Margarey of knockin da' boots with someone not named Tommen or Ser Pounce, and they both end up getting arrested, stripped naked (yes please) and forced to stand trial.

Qyburn Von Frankenstein creates his monster.


Davos Seaworth is dead, then he's not, then he's off to save Rickon Stark and hopefully Lord Manderly gets to utter the best line of the series. "The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done."

Look, I"m not sure anything can match the last 300-400 pages of ASOS, but that's still a lot of stuff that done with the right touches can be very entertaining TV, particularly with guys who know where each character's arc is headed.

Just god please, no quentyn martell

So Im working up this idea that the Faith of the Seven is linked to the Citadel and the Maesters.

The Faith was originally located in Oldtown until the Aegon the Conqueror. Oldtown is also home to the Citadel and the order of the Maesters. The chances of collusion and mutual interests are pretty high.

Getting back to the scene with Davos/Stannis/IronBank, Davos makes the case that after Tywin dies, who is in control? A 14yo? Cersei?

So what if Jaqen's infiltration of the Citadel led to the election of the High Sparrow as the new High Septon. The High Sparrow is the one that tries Cersei for treason. This makes sense because the Iron Bank is now invested in Stannis and with Tyrion and Tywin both out of Westeros, Cersei is the final Lannister that needs to be accounted for. (Now that we know that CR is dry, all the money they loaned to Robert they had to borrow against).

Kevan is now in charge of a family with no money, no financial backing, and debts.

[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 5/26/2014 2:04p).]

And...Kevan is dead.

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And...Kevan is dead.

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Lol.

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So Im working up this idea that the Faith of the Seven is linked to the Citadel and the Maesters.

The Faith was originally located in Oldtown until the Aegon the Conqueror. Oldtown is also home to the Citadel and the order of the Maesters. The chances of collusion and mutual interests are pretty high.

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This isn't exactly news. Most maesters worship the seven, as most maesters are southron. I doubt they have a separation of church and whatever the hell they do.

Good fcck that guy!

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Most maesters worship the seven, as most maesters are southron.

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We never see any active collusion between the Order of the Maesters and the Faith. Its only implied.

Just like the IronBank/HouseBlackWhite-FacelessMen.



No thoughts on the Iron Bank's hand in the selection of the new High Septon?

Lack of active collusion doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We wouldn't have half the theories we had if we relied on GRRM to come out and say it.

It's a good theory, but might be a bit of a reach. I don't think Jaqens chickens have come home to roost quite yet.

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So what if Jaqen's infiltration of the Citadel led to the election of the High Sparrow as the new High Septon

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Interesting. Another popular theory is that Jaquen is trying to find the book "Death of the Dragons" (or something to that effect, can't remember precisely) which is supposedly kept at the citadel. He was originally searching for it in KL given his presence in the black cells. For some reason, the Faceless Men seek to destroy the dragons, and so Jaquen is searching for the knowledge of how to kill them.

Its been a while since I read about that so I'm a little sparse on details, sorry.

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Another popular theory is that Jaquen is trying to find the book "Death of the Dragons" (or something to that effect, can't remember precisely) which is supposedly kept at the citadel. He was originally searching for it in KL given his presence in the black cells. For some reason, the Faceless Men seek to destroy the dragons, and so Jaquen is searching for the knowledge of how to kill them.

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The bolded part makes no sense unless somehow the Iron Bank knew that Dany would hatch her dragons.

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Another popular theory is that Jaquen is trying to find the book "Death of the Dragons" (or something to that effect, can't remember precisely) which is supposedly kept at the citadel. He was originally searching for it in KL given his presence in the black cells. For some reason, the Faceless Men seek to destroy the dragons, and so Jaquen is searching for the knowledge of how to kill them.

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The bolded part makes no sense unless somehow the Iron Bank knew that Dany would hatch her dragons.

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Isn't there some flame somewhere that burns brighter when more magic is in the realm? One of the maesters could have sent word to the bank...Someone with ears everywhere.