Great episode. That chain thing was outstanding. Loved Sam showing he is toughening up and being a man. Ygritte's death was handled well and I thought the kid killing her (ironically after Jon told him to "pick up a weapon) was great irony and poetic justice. They did a great job of showing there is more to Thorne than just being a jerk. Giants were amazing. Fight in the tunnel was epic. Jon and Magnar fight was awesomeness and the hammer to the head was perfect.

I get why readers didn't get as in to it. I see the 2 main reasons that haven't necessarily being listed as these:

1. Episode 9 has been "THE" episode every season so far and while this one was cool action wise it still just dealt with the story at the Wall and that hasn't been emphasized as much this year and it just doesn't have as many characters the watchers are invested in.

2. Very little if anything was resolved. If this is the "big episode" then it is a let down because really nothing of significance moved forward. The Wall still stands but is under imminent threat. None of the other story lines were touched.

I do think they could have put Stannis in this one rescuing the day Tywin style and it would have made a better independent episode but they way they handled it will be better for the story long term. The image of Jon walking out into the whiteness to seemingly certain death was awesome.

Ygritte: we should have stayed in the cave


Jon Snow: no, you should have stayed in the cave!

Like others have said, they did a great job. Great fight scenes, Ygritte's death was "perfect" and it was good to see Jon Snow kicking ass.

I also like Thorne's fight scenes, was some good depth to the character.

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the wall which is nothing but likeable good guys

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Tap the breaks a little here. The wall, manned by a slew of *******s, murderers, rapists, thieves and other bad dudes, is not "full of likeable good guys". they are protecting the realm, and that is a good deed, but they arent all good guys.

anyway, sorry for the attempted thread hijack.

[This message has been edited by cibolocreekag (edited 6/9/2014 9:43a).]

Those all got killed at Craster's, now it's just good guys

Yeah. I think he was taking about in the show anyway.

I think the non-readers are mad because they're trying to figure out if fan-favorite Tyrion is about to die.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 6/9/2014 9:58a).]

I think Kings Landing tends to steal the show. Or maybe that's just Cersei, Joffrey and Tyrion. You love to hate the villains and love to pull for the little guy (pun not intended).

Next week gon be goooood

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So non-book readers are essentially people from the seven kingdoms (the wall is for criminals and trash) and readers are nights watchmen (the wall is still really important you guys!)

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Yes, they have not done a good job with the importance of the wall on the show. In the books, you really get the sense of how unimportant all the little squabbles in Kings Landing are. They're fighting over little castles when there is an army of Monsters to their North and an army with Dragons to their East.

You always get the sense that they have no clue the real fight is elsewhere. The show hasn't given you that sense.

I didn't like Ygritte's death. Like another poster said, I like that John just found her body in the book. They could have had it happen the same way (Ygritte having a bead on John (without him seeing) and the boy killing her) and let John continue leading the Watch to victory. The story of John taking a leadership role would have played better and you still would have had the irony and sadness of her death. Instead, John finishes the battle holding her dead body crying like a little baby, while his brothers mop up.

They also should have left Thorne and Slynt at another Castle. I didn't get the sense that Snow lead that battle. Anyone who watched that would still say Thorne was the leader.

In a chaotic battle, how does Ghost know friend from foe?

Magic!

Wildlings smell worse than Nights Watch.

Also, magic.

On another note the Nonspoiler posters have no idea the BAMF that Tyrion is about to become... They are just worried about his escape...

Also... So many things have to happen next episode:
-Jon confronts Mance and the Stannis entrance
-bran reaches the Bloodraven, sadly with no coldhands
-Arya and the Hound split with Arya disembarking to Bravos
-dany's children get a taste for human
-Tyrion makes his exit with a wake of bodies behind him
-lady stoneheart

No wonder it will be over an hour long...

It's cool to see nobody over there even suggest that Tyrion may get some revenge. Dis gun be good

I'm guessing arya and the hound turn around now that they aren't sure what to expect from the vale with lysa dead.

Littlefinger probably hears that arya was there and sends a bunch of men to get arya back. I assume the same story line plays out, with the hound getting fatally wounded and arya leaving him for "dead".

Remember that Jon wargs with Ghost even though he doesn't fully realize it. Same as with Robb and Grey Wind in battle, they follow the direction of their master even though it is unconscious.

Next week has to be the best episode of the series to date, going to be epic.

yeah but the non-readers have now proposed/guessed tyrion escapes both by way of jamie and/or varys setting him free.....

pretty good guesses...still not definite spoilers of hidden readers until someone suggests he get some imp revenge on the way out.

i think they will be releieved he escapes, not completely surprised at how, but then stunned at what he does. still will be a payoff for them.

and i don't think they have a clue at much of anything else -

some think bran reaches his destination but they can't imagine what awaits.
some figure there will be some dany moment. but most are more concerned about jorahs fate.
some expect more from jon meeting with mance - but expect some sort of teaming up perhaps against the white walkers instead of stannis arrival.
most expect something with the hound/arya but i think they expect them to actually meet up with sansa.
nobody knows anything about LSH and nobody is mentioning pod/brienne which is good whether it is involved or not.



[This message has been edited by mchensel (edited 6/9/2014 2:27p).]

look at this poor guy...

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digital_ag
posted 11:34a, 06/09/14

I'm really curious when the white walkers are going to get involved.

Very first episode of the show gave us some white walker activity and then it was basically ignored the rest of the season. The finale of season 2 or 3 showed the ww horde and we saw what they did with Craster's *******s but otherwise nothing.

WTF are they waiting on? We also know how they can be killed.

So many seeds planted.

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Texaggie7nine
user level: Legend12th Man DonorPremium Level Supporter posted 11:38a, 06/09/14this

If the crows where smart, they would try to strike a deal with the wildlings and offer them to come live south of the wall if they help defend them from the white walkers.

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Anyone know if this is a reader or not?

Was wondering that too, I decided not to comment on it just in case. It's not that radical an idea really

I love the policing of the non-spoiler thread by book readers. Those people really seem to like you posting on their thread.

My favorite is when the non-readers try to insult the book readers by calling us "nerds".

You are watching a show about giants and dragons. You might want to do a reality check here.

Not that I care if I'm called a nerd anyhow. Its really not an insult these days.

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I love the policing of the non-spoiler thread by book readers. Those people really seem to like you posting on their thread.

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We aren't the heroes they deserve, but the ones they need right now.

I'd watch for confirmation bias over there, though. Easy to think that something is a spoiler when it's just a lucky guess. Need to have something convincing before you tar and feather someone over this crazy show.

One thing I will say is that the "shepherding" has gotten better. I've noticed a lot less nudging show watchers the right direction over the past several episodes. That would have driven me crazy. I'm insane about spoilers, though. If I know someone has access to superior information, i'm automatically sizing up what theories they comment on, what theories they avoid, and drawing a conclusion from that.

Best case in point was last week in this exchange:

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Seven Psycho Ags
posted 1:51p, 06/01/14

If a defendant loses at trial by combat are they immediately executed? If the Mountain wins will Tyrian still have a chance at Jaime or someone else busting him out?

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This is the response:

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mchensel
posted 2:30p, 06/01/14

No....and I don't think this is spoilery....

well in the vale i would bet they would have tossed you (tyrion) out the moondoor immediately if you lost your trial by combat but that was a hasty affair altogether.

but they are a bit more civilized in the capital and this has been a formal trial. if trial by combat is lost an execution date is set, it may be the next day or a later day, i'm not sure but it is not immediate.

so i think the more civilized the setting the more formal the proceedings including the execution. trials by combat in remote or more untamed locations likely have quicker resolutions.

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The implication here is that we've seen exactly 1 trial by combat on the show, and that was the one in the Vale with Tyrion that was referenced in the post. So in order to know that they are more civilized and delay execution in the capital, you have to have been witness to an trial by combat wherein a person lost and was not immediately executed. Considering that we were only seeing the 2nd trial by combat, this knowledge of how they do things in the capital was either coming from knowing how the events surrounding Tyrion's 2nd trial came out, or there is another TBC in the capital at a later date, and you'll know from the outcome of that other TBC.

To that end, this was the response from a like-minde non-reader:

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aggie1906
posted 5:02p, 06/01/14

No why would you know that unless someone loses a trial by combat?

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aggie1906 posted that comment with a frowny face, so he believed he had been spoiled. And in fact he was. Not because mchensel was trying to post a spoiler, but because he was answering a question with information gleaned from how events played out in the book before it was shown on the show.

I feel for aggie1906 in this scenario because as soon as I read mchensel's post, I thought, "Well he just gave it all away." But nobody else seemed to notice it, or at least didn't comment on it.

These are the dangerous spoilers in my estimation; the ones where someone is trying to do a solid to guide the non-readers or help the non-readers, and inadvertently giving the game away.


[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 6/9/2014 5:34p).]

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I'd watch for confirmation bias over there, though. Easy to think that something is a spoiler when it's just a lucky guess. Need to have something convincing before you tar and feather someone over this crazy show.

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Definitely, and some have seemed simply like good guesses after long discussions. This post was just a one sentence statement that was spot on and was really prompted by much previous discussion though.

I wouldn't ever call anyone out or even ask them in case they weren't a reader (it'd spoil it for them at least), but like you said, there has been some shepherding and what not thrown in.

actually they read too much into that...it was based on what was in the show...but i just let it go rather than create further specualtion. to wit:

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well in the vale i would bet they would have tossed you (tyrion) out the moondoor immediately if you lost your trial by combat but that was a hasty affair altogether.

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this is purely specualtion based on neither the show nor the book as in both cases we do not know what would have happened if the trial by combat was lost obviously...

but we do know in the case of the show that Bronn said the only reason he acted as champion was because Lysaa insisted the trial by combat be that day...that seemed rather hasty...and we know also in the show the kid Robin was eager to see someone fly...quite clearly had he lost i think he was going to fly right then.

and we do have another trial by combat to refer to as well with sandor clegane - that was also hasty with the trial and trial by combat and presumably the execution of guilty all woud have taken place in a matter of hours by all appearances in a remote/wild setting.

thats all from the show

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but they are a bit more civilized in the capital and this has been a formal trial. if trial by combat is lost an execution date is set, it may be the next day or a later day, i'm not sure but it is not immediate.

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this was actually derived from things said in the show as well... it was stated more than once that the trial was in a fortnight. that is in obvious contrast to the eyrie episode as well as the fact that when he demanded a trial by combat it was a matter of days (or at least a day i'm not sure) as opposed to being immediate in the eyrie. tyrion also said to Pod that he wanted him to leave and he wasn't safe and he said if he was found guilty he did not want to see Pods head "already mounted" when he walked that long walk to the executioners block which implied to me that it would be sometime after the trial - not immediate ala the eyrie. because that would mean they first executed anyone not willing to cooperate just to further torment the condemned.

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so i think the more civilized the setting the more formal the proceedings including the execution. trials by combat in remote or more untamed locations likely have quicker resolutions.

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which all led to this summation.


but i do see your point even about confirmations unintentionally giving stuff away..as that did there despite the fact that i believed all of that could be derived from what was seen on the show up until that time.



[This message has been edited by mchensel (edited 6/9/2014 6:46p).]

oy....someone over there just got dangerously close to predicting the arrival of stannis....saying shouldn't someone send reinforcements......hmmmmm....

mchensel, i agree with everything you said. However, you didn't consider that you were the filter that info came from. I think it's pretty well known you're a book reader, so that adds a credence to the observation.

I will say that I think you've been exceptionally careful not to spoil anything. It was just an example that came to mind because it had just happened.

You spoiled something over there for a non-reader, regardless of how you want to defend it. You're inference that the execution date wouldn't be directly after the trial because they're more civilized is ridiculous. Everyone over there knows you read the books.

Maybe you should take a hint and stop posting anything over there, especially if you can't help but give additional details outside the show. Seems like that thread has one book reader every year who wants to try to "help"... Very surprised it's not Bill.

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oy....someone over there just got dangerously close to predicting the arrival of stannis....saying shouldn't someone send reinforcements......hmmmmm....

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Perfect example of a non-spoiler that is almost a spoiler. Sure Davos gave the note to Stannis and Melisandre confirmed that the north was the true threat, but nobody had mentioned him until a reminder was given of how the notes were sent from the wall to each of the "kings" asking for aid. Now all of a sudden there are posts regarding Stannis arriving to help right guys?

Someone also "guessed" that varys would help tyrion escape

quote:

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quote:

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oy....someone over there just got dangerously close to predicting the arrival of stannis....saying shouldn't someone send reinforcements......hmmmmm....

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Perfect example of a non-spoiler that is almost a spoiler. Sure Davos gave the note to Stannis and Melisandre confirmed that the north was the true threat, but nobody had mentioned him until a reminder was given of how the notes were sent from the wall to each of the "kings" asking for aid. Now all of a sudden there are posts regarding Stannis arriving to help right guys?

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So we aren't even supposed to remind them of stuff that happened in the show? Give me a friggin break. As I'm sure you noticed, there were other posters besides me that said the same thing, and I was probably the only reader that said it.

I don't understand the point of talking about the show over there if you've read the books. Their understanding is completely elementary, and unless you're trying to help them, what else is there to gain from that thread?