***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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JJxvi
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10:32a, 4/21/14
AG
Daario annoys the **** out of me and is poorly cast. The other guy was memorable, you could hold his picture up and people would recognize him as the mercenary who is with the Khaleesi.

This guy looks like 3/4 of the nobody characters in the show. "Uh, is he the guy that cant die? Someone at the wall? Ser Jorah's long lost little brother? Renly's ghost? Sir Robert the Bruce? I give up!"

During his little "I'm nobody" comment all I could think is "Yeah, even the audience doesn't know who the **** you are..."

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 4/21/2014 9:33a).]
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redline248
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10:39a, 4/21/14
AG
I also thought Littlefinger's acting was off in that scene. He was either being over dramatic or he changed his accent. It was weird and distracting.

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/21/2014 9:40a).]
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MSCAg
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10:53a, 4/21/14
AG
Dumb idea to have Jamie ask Braun to help him doing his sword training. In the books, he only practiced with people or Payne who had no tongue.
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redline248
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11:03a, 4/21/14
AG
He practiced once with another knight perfectly able to talk, but trusted him enough to keep his mouth shut. Rather than re-cast Ilyn Payne, seems the show just wrote him out of the story.

It doesn't matter if the show never has Bronn tell anyone.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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11:13a, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
Dumb idea to have Jamie ask Braun to help him doing his sword training. In the books, he only practiced with people or Payne who had no tongue.

disagree 100%. thought it was great change from the books. bronn is a fantastic character and can/might lead to some great dialog b/t the two as well as furthering both of their characters.
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The Debt
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11:40a, 4/21/14
LF was whispering because sound carries over water.

The most interesting part about that scene was LF knocking the necklace back into the rowboat with Dontos. He is giving the Lannisters Dontos and implicating Sansa, which has ramifications in the future when he wants to reveal Sansa to her claim. The Lannisters have to be powerless before that reveal.

One could suspect that it also takes the suspicions away from the Tyrells, once the necklace is discovered it is a smoking gun that Sansa had a clear part in murdering the king. So who helped her? An isolated girl with no allies but her husband.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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11:44a, 4/21/14
I hope people aren't disappointed when Braun tests positive for 'roids and loses his Knighthood.

New Daario compared to Eric Bana in Troy. Honestly,they should have just asked Eric Bana if he wanted to do it.





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Greeze06
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11:55a, 4/21/14
AG
Dude cant even fill out that armor. Weak.
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redline248
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12:21p, 4/21/14
AG
There was something more than just the whispering.

In regard to the necklace in the boat with Dontos, should we assume the boat will be found? I can't remember if Dontos's body was ever found in the books.

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/21/2014 11:21a).]
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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12:50p, 4/21/14
AG
It was not. IIRC they set it on fire after killing him with the crossbows.
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The Debt
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12:59p, 4/21/14
What happens in the books is not what always happens in the show. If they meant to leave no trace of the boat they would have emphasized it. But what did they do instead?
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mid90
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1:14p, 4/21/14
AG
From the nonspoiler thread.

quote:
Totally with you, Littlefinger most likely wouldn't undertake something like that on his own.

If I had to guess I'd put him in the employ of Lady Tyrell, she didn't seem especially heartbroken over the loss of her new grandson-in-law and probably wanted to both save her granddaughter a lot of pain and make things easier on everyone all around.


Boy I can't wait for all the shocks when Littlefinger reveals he's the one behind the Jon Arryn assassination.
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MSCAg
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2:07p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
He practiced once with another knight perfectly able to talk, but trusted him enough to keep his mouth shut.
It wasn't just another knight, it was a guy who fostered under Tywin and is a huge Lannister ally (cannot remember his name for the life of me). Jamie mentions growing up with the guy.

Bronn is a fan favorite I know, but I think it really undercuts the book showing Jamie was now no longer the fighter he used to be and he was really trying to hide it. You don't do that buy having a sellsword spar with you.
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hunter2012
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2:18p, 4/21/14
AG
I've got to hand it to Littlefinger, he's benefited the most from the overarching story(probably because his schemes keep working). His only real nemesis/counterpart is Varys, just because he's the only one that recognizes Littlefinger for the mastermind that he is. The others are nobles who just care for family positioning, I don't think even Tywin saw Peter's ambition. But even the spider's plans aren't as successful.
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G Martin 87
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2:39p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
quote:
He practiced once with another knight perfectly able to talk, but trusted him enough to keep his mouth shut.
It wasn't just another knight, it was a guy who fostered under Tywin and is a huge Lannister ally (cannot remember his name for the life of me). Jamie mentions growing up with the guy.

Bronn is a fan favorite I know, but I think it really undercuts the book showing Jamie was now no longer the fighter he used to be and he was really trying to hide it. You don't do that buy having a sellsword spar with you.

Nope, count me in the group of book readers who loves this switch. Ser Ilyn Payne was a cardboard character with no real importance to the story. Bronn is a much more compelling and interesting character.
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JJxvi
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2:45p, 4/21/14
AG
Bronn is loyal to Tyrion because he's paid to be. I don't see any issues with another rich Lannister paying him to keep his mouth shut. Tyrion knows he's self serving and calls him insolent and black-hearted, but that doesn't stop him from trusting him and using him in his intrigues because he knows no one else is going to pay Bronn more and he knows Bronn knows it. Now naturally this doesn't help once other Lannisters with just as much gold swoop in while Tyrion is penniless in the dungeon about to lose his head, but I see no problem with the show simply switching Bronn's allegiance to the Lannisters and presumably to Jaime.

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 4/21/2014 2:33p).]
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G Martin 87
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3:16p, 4/21/14
AG
Amazing how little respect Littlefinger gets in the nonspoiler thread. Maybe that will change after the Moon Door.
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LawAg05
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3:42p, 4/21/14
AG
That is the epitome of his brilliance. Everyone underestimates him until it is too late.

quote:
"Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you."
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MSCAg
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4:05p, 4/21/14
AG
It was the Mood Door incident and that final Sansa chapter (Feast of Crows I think) that really showed the guy is probably the best chess, er cyvasse, player of them all [so far].

Most of the time he seemed simply an opportunist, playing pretty well with that was dealt to him and moving up.

Like others have said, Joff is probably who ordered the assassination of Bran (doubtless LF would have learned about his fall and then gotten an assassin up there with a Valyrian blade). So when Eddard confronted him, its amazing how quickly he conjured up blaming Tyrion.

I think in the end he becomes the major antagonist of the whole series, even more so than the White Walkers.
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The Dog Lord
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4:51p, 4/21/14
AG
Agreed that Littlefinger is awesome. And yes, no one seems threatened by him because of his low status. Even elevating him to Lord of Harrenhal didn't help his status much in the eyes of the elite, because he didn't inherit an army or anything else with it. Even in the Vale, the other lords dismissed him, but he is slowly plotting to put some power behind his new titles. His influence over things will be very very interesting in the coming books.
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Kampfers
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5:01p, 4/21/14
AG
In addition to what has been mentioned about LF, don't forget that it's also rumored that he influenced Joff to execute Ned after everyone had decided to let him live, therefore plunging the regime into chaos.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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5:14p, 4/21/14
LF's only problem is Sansa. He clearly wants her in the way he never allegedly had her mother. I'm sure I'm not the first person to theorize that just when he looks like he's got half the Seven Kingdoms under control, she'll wake up from her series-long stupor and stab him in the back, perhaps literally.
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Malachi Constant
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5:20p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
she'll wake up from her series-long stupor and stab him in the back, perhaps literally
Definitely hoping this happens...
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aggie93
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5:26p, 4/21/14
AG
I definitely think LF is going down and Sansa is the likely culprit. In the books she seems to have finally figured out how to play the game.
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MSCAg
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5:31p, 4/21/14
AG
I think when all is said and done, the series ends with Sansa getting her wolf balls back and taking over as Queen in the North.

Agreed that she is likely LF's biggest weakness.
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LawAg05
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5:40p, 4/21/14
AG
Agree with the theories about LF's weakness/demise.

I'm hoping for a Lady Stoneheart and LF meeting. VERY curious to see how that would play out.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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6:13p, 4/21/14
his little finger would likely shrivel to nothing.
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redline248
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6:24p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
Like others have said, Joff is probably who ordered the assassination of Bran (doubtless LF would have learned about his fall and then gotten an assassin up there with a Valyrian blade). So when Eddard confronted him, its amazing how quickly he conjured up blaming Tyrion.


I was just thinking about that too, but then again as another pointed out above, he did orchestrate the Arryn death and had Lysa blame it on the Lannisters in her letter to Cat. It was a brilliant move, but maybe not as out of thin air as I originally thought.
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jenn96
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10:32p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
she'll wake up from her series-long stupor and stab him in the back, perhaps literally

One of the things that intrigues me is that Sansa is geographically very close to The Hound by the end of AFFC - she is at the Gates of the Moon, he is on the Quiet Isle. And Sandor is one of the few characters that knows that Littlefinger personally betrayed Ned - I believe he was in the throne room when Ned went down.

I don't really want to see Sansa and the Hound hook up - and the way Martin writes sex scenes it would probably be creepier than hell - but I would love to see them team up. He always took care of her, in his gruff a-hole way, and despite his appearance and cruelty he was the closest thing to a "true knight" she found in Kings Landing. Once she gets her courage and gets to work a hound could be a useful guy to have around.
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redline248
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10:56p, 4/21/14
AG
It is going to be hilarious when everyone's favorite theories on characters are all wrong.

Hound actually dead
Jon snow either dead or not the child of Rhaegar
Jaqen not in the Citadel
Dany falls off her dragon and dies
Etc

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/21/2014 9:57p).]
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The Debt
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11:11p, 4/21/14
Why do yall think LF is in a position of weakness?

He has an entire kingdom and a wardenship at his disposal that isnt his. He has a lordship of Harrenhall. He has a Stark female. He has a working friendship with the Tyrells. He has money. And most importantly: he knows how wither Houses.
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BTKAG97
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11:19p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
Boy I can't wait for all the shocks when Littlefinger reveals he's the one behind the Jon Arryn assassination.

Do you really think non-readers will know who the hell Jon Arryn is?

"What!? I thought Jon was on the wall!!?"
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BTKAG97
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11:22p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
Amazing how little respect Littlefinger gets in the nonspoiler thread. Maybe that will change after the Moon Door.

Short memory spans. He wasn't cast in the first two episodes. I figured non-readers wouldn't recall who he was exactly not to mention where he was supposed to be. Highly doubtful any non-reader would remember he was supposed to be in the Vale.
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BTKAG97
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11:25p, 4/21/14
AG
quote:
I don't really want to see Sansa and the Hound hook up

The Hound is dead, so that's unlikely.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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11:32p, 4/21/14
quote:
Why do yall think LF is in a position of weakness?


Nobody said he was. We said his one weakness is Sansa in that he is thinking with the wrong head, and convincing himself she's his key to the north, which she might be, but he really wants her for personal reasons.

That's what keeps Varys one step ahead of him in my book. Varys doesn't have the common man's "problem" down below - thus his machinations to destabilize the realm as much as possible for the return of either Dany or Aegon or both - are not every conflicted by personal feelings, the way that LF's are for Sansa, and even Tyrion for Shae.
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