***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

209,045 Views | 2149 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Twelfthman
Barnacle
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:59a, 5/8/14
AG
quote:
What do we know about the Old Gods?

We already know that the Seven and hundreds of gods are part of the multifaced god.

But the old gods never really fit into those personalities. If they are just a passive aspect of the one true god.

I have understood that R'hllor (fire) and the Great Other (ice) are both aspects of the one-true god. But the old gods, Im not certain are part of the Braavosi one-god. They seem like a different type of magic as the R'hllor. Warging, greenseeing, extended life (as a tree) is not something that is evil or good.


My take on the gods is that humans are fallible and too small to comprehend everything there is to know about the gods. I think each of the religions has hooked into an aspect of the true gods but not comprehensively.

In the same way that Melisandre says that what she sees in the flames never lie but it's merely the interpreter who misinterprets the true meaning, so do the worshipers of the various gods have limited understanding which can be clouded by their fallibility. After reading that, I guess I'm saying it might be that GRRM may be approaching the Gods in an agnostic manner while his characters are locked into specific religions.
Reply Quote
redline248
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:15p, 5/8/14
AG
quote:
quote:
For discussion's sake, why should we be any more willing to believe that Rhllor/Great Other are any more real than the 7 or Old gods or anyone else's interpretation of religion?
Well Mel/Thoros make miracles happen because of the Lord of Light. We know some dark entity powers the wights, something reanimates corpses.

The Seven seem to made up. They have no power.


I agree, but perhaps there hasn't been anyone show up with power from the 7 yet. That still doesn't explain the powers of Bran, Jojen or the CotF (unless we assume that comes from the great other) or any of the other various magic shown throughout the books. Perhaps all the magic is just magic and not derived from any gods, even Thoros and Mel.
Reply Quote
Barnacle
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:23p, 5/8/14
AG
Why do the religions have to be mutually exclusive?
Reply Quote
Thomas Ford 91
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:07p, 5/8/14
AG
I've always considered the various religions to be symbolic of real religions. Which is the one true religion isn't important to the story.


The Seven = Roman/Greek religions
Old Gods - Wiccan / Earth Worship
R'hllor - Christianity/Islam/Judaism
Drowned God - cults
Multi Faced God - Far Eastern religions
Dothraki Gods - Wiccan / Earth Worship

Another issue - Am I right when I say that the Others/WW can't cross the Wall? I seem to recall that the Wall contains deep and powerful spells that the Others/WW can't cross.

To me, that makes the Horn on the proposed cover of TWoW important. And, the tidbit in ADwD about the WW overtaking those ships sent to rescue those people north of the Wall suggest to me they might try to go around.
Reply Quote
MSCAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:08p, 5/8/14
AG
I would think the Drowned god at least draws from Jesus and Dionysus from the idea of life after death, baptism, etc.


Yeah, we know from Coldhand that the well protects at least from the dead crossing it, but not sure if that applies to the Others. But yeah, it seems like the Horn is going to be critical.

[This message has been edited by MSCAg (edited 5/8/2014 4:10p).]
Reply Quote
redline248
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:30p, 5/8/14
AG
quote:
Why do the religions have to be mutually exclusive?


They don't have to be, and neither do they have to be parts of one. Not do they have to be real. That's my point, we don't know, and probably never will.
Reply Quote
aggie93
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:33p, 5/8/14
AG
Here is what the wiki says:

quote:
Unlike Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, the novels address religion in some detail, and portray several competing religions. More than any other novel in the series, A Dance with Dragons explores the different religions of Westeros and Essos. Each of the religions reflects its culture's temperament. Martin based the series' faiths on real religions, tweaking or expanding them a little. However, no religion is presented as the true faith, although there are eerie displays of power on many sides, nor do any have a monopoly on virtue.

Known Influences:

The old gods seem like a sort of peaceful animistic religion.
The Seven, bears some distinct similarities to the Catholic church, in structure and organization. The seven is an analog of the Trinity, that has seven gods in one rather than three (the Father, Warrior, Smith, Maid, Mother, Crone, and Stranger ), and complete with monastic orders, dormant military orders(Faith Militant), and a Pope/College of Cardinals (High Septon/Most Devout).
R'hllor, is similar in many ways to Zoroastrianism, with a strong dualism between the Lord of Light and the Nameless Other of Darkness, apocalyptic theology, and religious practice that is strongly intertwined with the use and symbiology of fire.

Virtually every other religion are examples of polytheism, where people in the attempt to understand nature gave forces of nature human shapes.
Storm God and the Drowned God could be related to Norse mythology, encouraging the lifestyle of raiding and reaving just as the religion of the Vikings did.
Mother Rhoyne religion is polytheistic worshipping the Rhoyne and many lesser river-dwelling deities such as the Old Man of the River, a turtle-god. It's may also be inspired by the real-life Roma, to a degree
Reply Quote
SlimM
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:51p, 5/8/14
AG
quote:
I've read all the books but I don't know anything about half of the stuff on this thread the last 3 pages...


Same here.
Reply Quote
hunter2012
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:57p, 5/8/14
AG
There's the book readers and then there's book readers that argue about religion in said books. Huge difference...
Reply Quote
The Debt
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:18p, 5/8/14
I don't understand how you read a book that deals with religious motivations of characters and supernatural miracles attributed to those religions and then ignore the religions as part of the plot.
Reply Quote
redline248
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:36p, 5/8/14
AG
Yep, it's pretty significant.
Reply Quote
Zeke1995
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:39p, 5/8/14
AG
The Gospel According to Hodor figures significantly in TWOW.
Reply Quote
AgDev01
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:52p, 5/8/14
AG


[This message has been edited by AgDev01 (edited 5/8/2014 5:54p).]
Reply Quote
redline248
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:06p, 5/8/14
AG
I wonder if Bran can understand Hodor's thoughts or if it's a jumble of hodor.
Reply Quote
Mega Lops
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:11p, 5/8/14
AG
I thought it was pretty obvious the faith of the seven was basically Catholicism but with seven aspects instead of three.
Reply Quote
The Debt
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:52p, 5/8/14
quote:
I wonder if Bran can understand Hodor's thoughts or if it's a jumble of hodor.

When you warg, do you have full access to their brain? Memories, current thoughts etc?
Reply Quote
redline248
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:12p, 5/8/14
AG
Dunno
Reply Quote
mid90
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:28p, 5/8/14
AG
quote:
I wonder if Bran can understand Hodor's thoughts or if it's a jumble of hodor.


My understanding is that he can understand Hodor's feelings, but not really communicate with him. IDK tho.
Reply Quote
Greeze06
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:04a, 5/9/14
AG
This thread has gotten we todd it.
Reply Quote
Southlake
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:13a, 5/9/14
Bookmark
Reply Quote
BillOnCapitolHill
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:10p, 5/10/14
Ttt for the start of the trial
Reply Quote
ellebee
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
2:09p, 5/10/14
quote:
This thread has gotten we todd it.


Sofa king.
Reply Quote
Kampfers
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:53p, 5/11/14
AG
Holy ****. They absolutely nailed that last scene.
Reply Quote
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:56p, 5/11/14
AG
Agreed. That last scene was fantastic!
Reply Quote
redbaron788
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:58p, 5/11/14
AG
Yes, excellent
Reply Quote
Baskin
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:32p, 5/11/14
AG
Bravo.

Also, apparently Oberyn has banged an unsullied...
Reply Quote
Elliot P. Campbell
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:37p, 5/11/14
AG
titan of braavos
badass davos monologue
awesome dragon cgi
more awesome reek/ramsay dynamic
amazing performances from all four lannisters
dinklage putting everyone else to shame at the end

fan-****ing-tastic episode
Reply Quote
mazzag
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:44p, 5/11/14
AG
quote:
titan of braavos
badass davos monologue
awesome dragon cgi
more awesome reek/ramsay dynamic
amazing performances from all four lannisters


fan-****ing-tastic episode


I had completely forgotten all those other scenes happened. Because of this one.

quote:
dinklage putting everyone else to shame at the end
Reply Quote
RedbeardAG
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:46p, 5/11/14
AG
Why didn't they have the dragon kill the shepherd girl?

Also...**** yeah peter dinklage. Got a justice boner incoming.
Reply Quote
AggieSouth06
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:56p, 5/11/14
quote:
Why didn't they have the dragon kill the shepherd girl?


Context. How would that scene be dramatic if there wasn't a precedent for her paying for the goats nonchalantly?
Reply Quote
AgLaw
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:12p, 5/11/14
AG
Dinklage is amazing.
Reply Quote
redline248
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:02a, 5/12/14
AG
Great episode
Reply Quote
G Martin 87
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:08a, 5/12/14
AG
quote:
I am gonna be pissed when this whole series ends with an autistic kid staring at a snow globe.

Nice. "Come on, Tommen, let's wash our hands."

[This message has been edited by G Martin 87 (edited 5/11/2014 11:15p).]
Reply Quote
Fat Bib Fortuna
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:18a, 5/12/14
Dinklage could win a second Emmy/GG based on that scene alone. He really did some amazing facial things to make himself appear "monstrous". Loved that they kept the Shae stuff intact, was worried they might write it differently.

Really enjoyed Davos' earnestness; The Theon rescue was a little odd - we take a boat from Pyke to wherever, then turn around because they're going to let a dog out? Aren't we wearing armor?

Loved that Ramsay fought shirtless - jesus that actor has captured his insanity to a tee.

Loved that my wife and I were both tensed up for the whole bath scene, expecting Ramsay to do something terrible to Reek.

Amazing episode considering there was zero Arya, zero Hound, zero Jon Snow.

Really hope they keep the same dynamic in the show when Oberyn declares for Tyrion and you see the sudden fear in Cersei's eyes.
Reply Quote
BillOnCapitolHill
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:30a, 5/12/14
I thought Ramsay would hurt Theon for trying to get the smell (Reek) off him by accepting the bath.
Reply Quote
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.