quote:
Jon isn't a Stark. He's a Targaryen. He will likely hold Winterfell as Warden of the North someday, but I don't think he does it as a Stark.
Interesting thought.
I could see it playing out both ways.
***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***
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Last: 10 yr ago by Twelfthman
Interesting thought.
I could see it playing out both ways.
Robb named Jon heir. Depending on how they go he could be legitimized as a Stark, although I think it unlikely. I think you are premature on Arya being done as a Stark, but any child she may have won't be a Stark. Maybe Bran finds the time to knock up Meera 
By the way, everyone thought the Targs were mostly done, too, and Dany is on the verge of a comeback. If she ever comes back.
[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/17/2014 6:35p).]
By the way, everyone thought the Targs were mostly done, too, and Dany is on the verge of a comeback. If she ever comes back.
[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/17/2014 6:35p).]
When I say "done as a Stark" I mean they are evolving into something bigger. Jon (Stark mom) is growing into the one defense against the White Walkers. Bran is turning into a near-deity. Arya is becoming a warging Faceless One.
These are larger than life figures. They will never bend the knee to a mere mortal. They are done as Starks.
These are larger than life figures. They will never bend the knee to a mere mortal. They are done as Starks.
Aegon the Conqueror and Balerion the Black Dread
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/world-of-ice-and-fire-sample/
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/world-of-ice-and-fire-sample/
I want World of Ice and Fire so much. Since I'm one of the haters who doesn't think the series will be finished on the page,(sob) this book is going to be the next best thing. It looks like its going to be gorgeous.
quote:
Arya is becoming a warging Faceless One
Don't forget that she hid Needle before she went all in with the assassins. They told her to forget everything about her past, but to me her hiding Needle indicates that she intends to come back to it one day, i.e. go back to Westeros and finish her Valar Morghulis list, i.e. 'become' a Stark once again.
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...Since I'm one of the haters who doesn't think the series will be finished on the page,(sob)....
I am going to be so sad if that happens.....I might refuse to watch the episodes/seasons that reach beyond the current books.
Mid90, you might as well watch. Once the series catches up with the books there won't be any more books. I hope hope hope I'm wrong but I have been following GRRM and reading his blog and interviews for 15 years. I just don't think he's going to finish the books, not when he can wrap it up onscreen and tell the story he wants to on HBO, allowed a huge amount of creative input, without having to sit down and pound out 2,000+ more pages.
But, that's just despair talking! And there is only one thing we say to Despair: "not today". It's only 2014 and I can hope.
But, that's just despair talking! And there is only one thing we say to Despair: "not today". It's only 2014 and I can hope.
mid, I thought in one off her last chapters Arya went back and got needle and her other hidden stuff...
A World of Ice and Fire is the kind of background that fans want for all of the series they follow but never get. I can't wait to read it. That sample of Aegon's Conquest was fantastic.
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ut, that's just despair talking! And there is only one thing we say to Despair: "not today".
Nice Syrio nod Jenn!
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mid, I thought in one off her last chapters Arya went back and got needle and her other hidden stuff...
Her chapters are fuzzy to me atm....
But the Wiki of Ice and Fire says she threw away all her belongings except needle, which she hid. No further info about her digging it back up.
I watched this past Sundays episode last night and have a few questions (too lazy to read all the posts):
1)A lot of scenes with the old lady before the assassination.
2)I'm thinking not a coincidence the "fool" met up with Serci to give her a necklace, then tried to rush her off during the assassination.
3)So am I to assume there is something that ties the "fool", the necklace, the old lady, and the assassination together?
(FYI...I've never read the books)
[This message has been edited by Silvertaps (edited 4/18/2014 7:33a).]
1)A lot of scenes with the old lady before the assassination.
2)I'm thinking not a coincidence the "fool" met up with Serci to give her a necklace, then tried to rush her off during the assassination.
3)So am I to assume there is something that ties the "fool", the necklace, the old lady, and the assassination together?
(FYI...I've never read the books)
[This message has been edited by Silvertaps (edited 4/18/2014 7:33a).]
Silver, do you want the spoiler answer? I recommend waiting to find out in a couple episodes.
I agree with redline, just wait and see.
FINE! I'll wait and see...but they did seem to drop a few nuggets.
Deep down I think Arya is more motivated by revenge than she is becoming a FM and I think she hasn't forgotten her family. I think if she sees a chance to take vengeance on anyone from her "list" or she sees a chance to help her siblings she will jump at it.
The arya chapter released from TWOW involving Raff the sweetling hits this point home. She is still arya and all about vengeance.
I don't think Arya will ever let go of the past. Rage is all that has sustained her through years of loss and despair. She may even think she wants to be a FM, to be a killer with no future and no past, but when given the choice to remain a FM and follow that path, or take her vengeance, she'll choose vengeance. The North Remembers, and so does she.
To me, the real wildcard with Arya will be does she reject the FM for vengeance, or for love? If for example she is sent to kill Sansa, or Gendry, does she do it? (I'm not arguing that will happen plotwise, just using them as examples).
To me, the real wildcard with Arya will be does she reject the FM for vengeance, or for love? If for example she is sent to kill Sansa, or Gendry, does she do it? (I'm not arguing that will happen plotwise, just using them as examples).
If you have little kids and are as tired of Frozen as I am, this GOT/Frozen mashup is quite funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6KLzjXAV3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6KLzjXAV3s
^^^^
HOOOOOOOOOODOOOOOOOOOOOOR HOOOOOOOOODOOOOOOOOOOR had me in stitches
HOOOOOOOOOODOOOOOOOOOOOOR HOOOOOOOOODOOOOOOOOOOR had me in stitches
One thing I think is puzzling is Jaquen, why was he in Harrenhal posing as a Lannister guard? If they are sent to kill people it would have seemed he had a specific target that we don't know about or that is not yet known to the reader through the POV.
BTW that discussion is awesome and made me think about a lot of things.
Anyways, so Jaquen trained as FM and was then hired by someone, again we don't know who, to kill an unknown target; Arya did something for him and for that he killed three people for her. Then he is gone again, and we are left to believe that he killed the maester in Old Town (what was the reason again?). BTW, tying that into the show is gonna be hard for the reader to follow, unless it's the same actor and they just really over do the make up.
Y'all's thoughts on who he was originally sent to kill, who hired/sent him, where he is off to next? It sort of seemed like he has doing his own thing, not even a mercenary type work to me, but there is always some grander scheme.
BTW that discussion is awesome and made me think about a lot of things.
Anyways, so Jaquen trained as FM and was then hired by someone, again we don't know who, to kill an unknown target; Arya did something for him and for that he killed three people for her. Then he is gone again, and we are left to believe that he killed the maester in Old Town (what was the reason again?). BTW, tying that into the show is gonna be hard for the reader to follow, unless it's the same actor and they just really over do the make up.
Y'all's thoughts on who he was originally sent to kill, who hired/sent him, where he is off to next? It sort of seemed like he has doing his own thing, not even a mercenary type work to me, but there is always some grander scheme.
FM generally kill who they are hired to kill. It is also thought that Jaquen killed Balon Greyjoy because he was killed by a Faceless Man (just not sure if it was Jaquen).
quote:
d we are left to believe that he killed the maester in Old Town (what was the reason again?)
wait what?
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I don't think Arya will ever let go of the past. Rage is all that has sustained her through years of loss and despair. She may even think she wants to be a FM, to be a killer with no future and no past, but when given the choice to remain a FM and follow that path, or take her vengeance, she'll choose vengeance. The North Remembers, and so does she.
If you want some further insite into this, read the chapter currently posted on GRRM's site. I think the very end tells you what you need to know.
What does a FM do when he isn't under contract?
If all men must serve, perhaps he is just spying until he gets the call.
If all men must serve, perhaps he is just spying until he gets the call.
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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AG
quote:
wait what?
He's referring to the maester/apprentice that was killed and then impersonated in the prologue of AFfC. Pate i think? i think most assume it to be Jaqen Ha'gar.
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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One thing I think is puzzling is Jaquen, why was he in Harrenhal posing as a Lannister guard?
IIRC, wasnt he one of the captives that was going to the wall, before being attacked by the lannisters looking for gendry, and then takes up as a lannister mercenary to avoid being killed?
i might be confusing/obfuscating book and series plotlines....
I assume that when Arya let them out of the cage they were captured as well and volunteered to join up.
Balon was killed by a faceless man? I thought he just fell off a bridge during a storm?
Balon was killed by a faceless man? I thought he just fell off a bridge during a storm?
If you believe that's what actually happened. With the arrival of his brother, it's more likely he was murdered.
This was on reddit the other day, a cool interactive map of Westeros that you can filter based on how far you've read or watched. I'm posing it to both threads because it is spoiler free.
http://quartermaester.info/
http://quartermaester.info/
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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quote:
The old gods stir and will not let me sleep. I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more
From ASoS
Damn, who said that?
The Ghost of High Heart talking to Arya and the BWoB.
quote:
One thing I think is puzzling is Jaquen, why was he in Harrenhal posing as a Lannister guard? If they are sent to kill people it would have seemed he had a specific target that we don't know about or that is not yet known to the reader through the POV.
Jaquen was imprisoned in King's Landing. He was being shipped back to the wall in a locked caged with two others because they were considered too dangerous to be allowed to walk on their own.
In "A Clash of Kings", the party heading back to the wall was attacked by Ser Armory Lorch's men while staying the night in an abandoned holdfast south of the Gods Eye. Lorch set the building aflame. Arya broke the lock to the cage Jaquen and the two others were in then ran off.
Jaquen and the other two then joined up with Lorch's men in order to stay alive. Being with Lorch, they ended up back in Harrenhall where Jaquen say Arya and told her she "stole" threee lives from his god and that now she "owed" his god three lives.
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