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Poor Drogon.

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I'm more concerned with Bran looking like a middle-aged man in a couple of years.

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he looked like Lloyd from Dumb & Dumber Sunday night

I'm really hoping that part of Bloodraven's initiation into treehood is a haircut.

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he looked like Lloyd from Dumb & Dumber Sunday night

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He also sounds like he might be gay in real life.

Anyone can be a fatbomb if they get into hard drugs and alcohol.

So is it assumed that the letter Ramsay sent Jon at the end of DWD is BS and that Stannis is still alive? Did I miss something there?

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So is it assumed that the letter Ramsay sent Jon at the end of DWD is BS and that Stannis is still alive? Did I miss something there?

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GRRM has already released a WOW chapter with Stannis in it.

funny how bent out of shpae people get about spoilers and GRRM spoilers his own books all the time - he spoilered something about Jon Snow too...i won't mention it if ya'll didn't see it and don't wanna know though....

post a link and posters can decide for themselves to click or not

sure....

beware.....possible spoiler......

saw it last year....had to search for it again but i found it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/25/game-of-thrones-spoiler-_n_3654298.html

don't discuss the merits of it as a spoiler...that'll likely give something away too...just take it for what it is or don't.

the comments on it contain plenty of discussion on it anyway so just read that.

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So is it assumed that the letter Ramsay sent Jon at the end of DWD is BS and that Stannis is still alive? Did I miss something there?

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GRRM has already released a WOW chapter with Stannis in it.

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Ah. Hadn't seen that yet. I just finished DWD yesterday and wanted to finally come in here and compare notes now that I didn't have to worry about spoiling the books for myself! I figured Stannis wasn't dead but hadn't seen for sure. Thanks.

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funny how bent out of shpae people get about spoilers and GRRM spoilers his own books all the time - he spoilered something about Jon Snow too...i won't mention it if ya'll didn't see it and don't wanna know though....

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You idiot, you just spoiled Jon Snow, he's either dead or the R+L prince...

I thought we weren't counting preview chapters as spoilers?

I've seen that link before....and honestly, I think people are reading way too much into what GRRM said.

I don't think that interview quote confirms or denies anything. It's just a random quote.

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I've seen that link before....and honestly, I think people are reading way too much into what GRRM said.

I don't think that interview quote confirms or denies anything. It's just a random quote.

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Exactly. By the same logic we should conclude that Arya and Tyrion are now dead or do not matter since he said "was" for them.

no he did not just say "was" for tyrion and arya read it again...

but yes, it may mean nothing, i agree.

Sometimes, I wonder if Winds of Winter will wrap up all the main story.

Dreams of Spring will probably serve as some type of epilogue (20 years later, this is how Jon is doing after banging Dany and here is all the kids they popped out).

Martin would just have to get Winds done, HBO could still wrap the series as they want, and then Spring would just serve as a sorta "here's how they are later"

[This message has been edited by MSCAg (edited 6/19/2014 8:50a).]

The chapter from WoW with Stannis could easily be prior to the Ramsay letter in real time, in fact I would expect it to be even if Stannis is actually dead. It is prior to any battle between the Bolton's and Stannis.

If GRRM tried to resolve all the arcs in WoW though it would be very rushed, everyone is just too spread out and too much needs to happen. That is unless he just goes on a mass killing spree and leaves lots of Quenyn Martell style loose ends that went nowhere. For instance he could just kill off Victarion in the Battle of Mereen and then have Damphair kill off Euron somehow while Theon actually is executed. Then he could send Arya, LSH, and maybe Blackfish on a mass killing spree. Then Dany just shows up and burns everyone with her dragons.

I mean it could happen but it would be kind of lame. The cool thing about ASOIF is it is so hard to predict what is going to happen.

I think the quote was taken out of context. When you see what the question was and the entire answer, he is talking about the entire series, not WoW: (entire interview: http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-answers-our-toughest-song-of-ice-and-886133300)

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So people have this idea that back when Ice and Fire started as a trilogy, you had an outline where there was a single line that went, "And meanwhile, nobles squabble over power in Westeros." And that single line turned into the middle three or four books of the series. Is there any truth to that?

It's a grotesque exaggeration — but there's at least a nugget of truth to it, yeah. You introduce characters, and sometimes they take on a life of their own.

Some major characters — yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion's arc was gonna be through this, what Arya's arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow's arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing.

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Also there are numerous quotes from him about wanting to finish the series. I've never been one to buy into the "He will let HBO finish it for him" theory, but it's nice to hear these nonetheless:

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But I haven't even [finished a single story.] As many books as it is, as many words as it is, it's still one story. One story that's not finished yet. I want to finish telling that story. And then I'll worry about that.

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So, I started finishing things. And I'm bound and determined to finish Ice and Fire.

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Stannis' chapter has to be before the letter is sent by Ramsay to Jon Snow because Stannis has Theon in his chapter. If Ramsay had already killed Stannis, etc., it would seem that he'd also have Theon and fake Arya already.

I am more inclined to believe that something happens between Roose and Ramsay, maybe Roose deciding to negotiate terms with Stannis and Ramsay goes ballistic. I don't doubt that Mance and the spearwives are captured, but everything else inferred in the letter could be chalked up to knowledge gained without a battle being fought - Stannis' magic sword; the red witch; his wife and daughter being at the Wall.

Ironically, Ramsay's angry letter which he signs as Lord of Winterfell is a lot like some of Theon's machinations when he was claiming the same title. Reek becomes Ramsay, Theon becomes Reek, is Ramsay now becoming Theon?

how satisfying would it be for Ramsey to become Theon's Reek?

I want Arya to kill Ramsay

Rickon has to do something for fans to care about him. Killing Ramsay would be perfect. Sh**** dog hates everyone except Rickon, so why not have him do it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/game-of-thrones-lady-stoneheart-michelle-fairley_n_5530215.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

no LSH in season 5, or ever


****ing bull****

Theory about Jon Snow that I like:

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/28zbhg/spoilers_all_waking_dragons_out_of_stone/

mid90, I think she chose her words very carefully and wouldn't count that as definitive that there will be no LSH in the TV series.

Wow, really good theory and makes complete sense. That is something GRRM would definitely do. Plus, the way the show has given more airtime to Shireen along with Mel & Selyse's conversation on Dragonstone this season, this seems likely and fits the prophecy.

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Mel & Selyse's conversation on Dragonstone this season

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That conversation foreshadowed SOMETHING the show runners know that we don't. I love it.

When do we get Patchface? I have a hard time believing he is unimportant.

Some interesting analysis on the Dornish master plan and who wrote the pink letter

http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCXU7XVK_2Wd6tAHYO8g9vAA

That's some pretty crazy stuff. Everyone seems to hate Quentyn's tale, so what would the reaction be if he was alive? The only problem with theories like this are that there are too many. Each one almost makes the assumption that it is the underlying thing in the story that will come to light in the end.

I thought the QM theory was tin foil stuff, but most of the other theories weren't bad at all.

Book readers are going to have to come to terms with book and show differences. LSH not appearing doesn't mean she won't amount to anything - her impact will just happen in some other way, as we saw with the Brienne/Hound encounter. I mean, I guess it means the books won't end with LSH sitting on the Iron Throne, but... come on. We all knew that anyway.

That said, I do fear a little for the show's portrayal of the ironborn going forward, if they are portrayed at all. Just because I like Victarion a lot and I'd like to see that be important enough to be shown. But if they can't pull it off in a concise and believable manner, then I'll understand cutting it.

Nice video on Jon theory...

http://youtu.be/kHqzFwodZqQ

Had a random thought this morning. Assuming R+L = J, how about a flashback scene in a future season where they bring back Sean Bean and make him look younger and have him arriving at the Tower of Joy as Lyanna is giving birth so she can tell Ned to take care of him and name him "Jon"?

Here's my "fanboy kicker" - by now there must be a legion of actors who are huge GoT fans out there. Find 2-3 old-school British actors who love the show, and cast one as Arthur Dayne, one as Gerold Hightower and one as Oswell Whent.

Since all three are "legendary" knights of the Kingsguard, would be really neat to have three famous (at least to some) actors playing them, all dressed in that white armor with the cloaks, and saying that amazing dialogue that Ned remembers while he's half hallucinating in the black cells before execution.

I would be head over heels to see this dialogue play out on screen.

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.

“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.

“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”

“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”

“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”

“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.

“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”

“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.

“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

On the R+L =J theory, since Maesters write down everything can see Sam finding out the details.