Incest+the mad gene?

No wonder Joffery never had a chance, though it appears Tommen and Myrcella have been spared, also the theory sounds BS...

According to their discussions, the mad gene didn't affect all Targs...Rhaegar wasnt a loon. Hence Joff being a sadistic crazy and Jaime and the others not. But the other two kids haven't had much character development for us to know.

Personally, I think they are wrong and Tyrion is the Targ.

The rule of wrist is the gods flip a coin for the Targ madness.


Cersei wondered if joffreys cruelty was the result of incest....but then was reminded of tommen and mycella by tyrion.

Speaking of rape, didnt FX show one of the characters from the Shield being forced to give head to a gangbanger at gun point?

Yes, the police chief.

I think Tyrion is a Targ but don't see Cersei and Jaime as Targs.

Joff's problem was his Mom raised him telling him he could have anything he wanted, anytime he wanted and he could make the truth into whatever he wanted it to be. Thus he always saw himself above everyone and never learned to take responsibility for anything. The world's only purpose was to serve him.

I don't think Tyrion is a Targ. There's a tendency to think that Targaryan blood has midichlorians or something...


Genna Lannister said:

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“Jaime,” she said, tugging on his ear, “sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna’s breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there’s some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak... but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you. I said so once to your father’s face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years.”

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Yeah, I think that is just a little too far speculation.

I really think the "secret Targ" tinfoil theories are the worst. Some of the flimsiest evidence to support it and yet people believe it in droves. I've seen far better fleshed out tinfoil theories that people disregard offhand for no reason, but yet they cling to the fact that Tyrion is a Targ. Ugh.

Evidence as to Tyrion being a Targ, it is less about one thing being proved/disproved as it is all of them together:

There are several mentions of the Mad King having an affinity for Joanna and that Tywin and The Mad King had a falling out.

Tyrion is obsessed with dragons and "dreams" of them and reads about them constantly.

Tyrion has always been treated like a ******* by Tywin and was disinherited.

Tyrion fell into the water that was filled with greyscale and Jon Connington got it from barely touching it while Tyrion actually ingested some of it. Targs are known to have disease resistance.

The "dragon has 3 heads" and "only death can bring life". There are 3 major characters that had mothers that may have died in child birth. Dany, whom we know is a "dragon". Jon Snow, assuming R+L=J. Tyrion, whose mother Joanna died in childbirth.

Tyrion is known to be Martin's favorite character.

None of this means of course that he is a Targ but it is enough that if he isn't a Targ it leaves some story gaps (that could of course be explained away or just ignored). I don't know if he is for sure a Targ there is actually more evidence that Tyrion is a Targ than R+L=J. For instance Jon Snow is burned when fighting off the wight that attacks the Lord Commander and fire cannot harm a dragon.

It's a fantasy novel, anything can happen.

Dany's mom Rhaella died from childbirth too...

That Tyrion is a Targ has no basis in real evidence, but the foreshadowing is definitely in the books. If Martin wrote it in, it wouldn't come out of left field at all.

Tbh I really hate the whole "three heads of the dragon" speculation as well, or the idea that one day tyrion, dany, and Jon snow are going to be riding dragons.

so, harrumph.

I have to admit, aggies93 has kind of sold me on the idea.

I would just like to point out that I have said on multiple threads that the Iron Bank has a significant role in the story. This season has finally solidified it with everyone else.

Someday we will learn whether or not the House of Black and White (Faceless Men) have a direct connection to the Iron Bank. I think its highly obvious. There is no way two powerful and wealthy organizations sit in the same city without collusion or mutually beneficial agreement.

This is an awesome deleted scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb-RVIETRCE

Recall Tywin and the stag.

There is as much evidence of Tyrion being a Targ as there is of many other things, Martin loves his riddles and prophecies. I just don't know why Martin would bother to leave so many hints if it lead to nothing.

One thing Martin loves to do is hide things in plain sight. Once you assume that Tyrion is a Lannister you stop paying attention to the possibility he may not be. It is especially true because everything in the books is POV and thus biased to what that person sees and thinks. We never heard Tywin's POV.

The "Dragon has 3 heads" is from the House of the Undying and is consistent with everything we know about dragons. The prophecies from the HotU have all come true or haven't yet come to pass. Dragons have riders. There are variables though. Just because you are a Targ doesn't mean you will be a rider and people without any Targ blood can also be riders. Hot Pie could be a rider for all we KNOW. Still the likelihood is 3 Targs.

There is actually one final piece of evidence as to Tyrion being a Targ as well. The Mad King made Jaime a member of his KG and thus by law Tyrion was then the heir to Casterly Rock. The story has emphasized of course that Jaime and Cersei plotted the KG membership and that Tywin would not allow Tyrion to inherit but that leaves out the context of the time it occurred. Had the Mad King remained in power he could have made sure Tyrion inherited from Tywin, no matter what Tywin wanted. It actually makes even more sense as to why Tywin hated Aerys in many ways.

It is a fantasy novel though so anything can happen.

The whole Jamie is a Targ sounds mighty interesting...

He likes incest, Targ trait
That above quote - you're not your father's son
Aerys appointed him to the KG to have his son, the best swordsman in Westros, protect him

I've now changed my thought from tyroin being a Targ to Jamie being the targ!

y'all are forgetting a very important characteristic of targaryens

they are extremely distinguishable with their platinum hair and purple eyes


Tyrion has blonde/black hair and mismatched eyes, so there might be something there, in terms of him possibly being a targ.

But Jaime and Cersei are Lannisters through and through.

Also remember the book of the great houses that Ned Star and Jon Arryn read. It seemed that Lannister traits were recessive, so it's doubtful that a targ/lannister mix would look pure lannister. Although it could be that Lannister traits are recessive only when mixed with Baratheon traits.

Or am I getting mixed up? Was Ned just looking at Baratheon histories in the book, and every one of their kids was black of hair?

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Was Ned just looking at Baratheon histories in the book, and every one of their kids was black of hair?

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He was looking at every Baratheon + Lannister child. All of them bore strong Baratheon traits. Though the same comparison with Lannister + Targaryen children would be interesting.

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y'all are forgetting a very important characteristic of targaryens

they are extremely distinguishable with their platinum hair and purple eyes

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The great lengths GRRM goes to with the Valyrian "look" is a red herring in my opinion. Baelor Breakspear, who was killed but first in line after Daeron II, had dark hair. At least one of Baelor's sons did not have the Valyrian look either.

Had Dunk not gotten mixed up with Aerion Brightflame, there's a good chance the Targaryen dynasty which descended from Baelor Breakspear would have populated Westeros with lots more dark haired royals.

I just clicked on this thread instead of the non-spoilers thread. I was reading around all like "WTF?" and then realized I was in the wrong thread. Damnit.

We also know that the Stark traits win out over Targ traits.

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We also know that the Stark traits win out over Targ traits.

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Baelor Breakspear, who was killed but first in line after Daeron II, had dark hair

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His mother was a Martell, so I guess this somewhat proves the idea that Targ traits are recessive, though all of his siblings looked Targaryen. Rhaegar's daughter with Elia also looked like a Martell, whereas Aegon looked Targaryen.

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We also know that the Stark traits win out over Targ traits.

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They might. They don't seem to be as strong as the Baratheon traits, considering how many of Ned and Cat's kids looked like Tullys, but it's possible they could win out over the lighter hair and eyes of the Targaryens.

[This message has been edited by Twelfthman (edited 4/23/2014 4:20p).]

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y'all are forgetting a very important characteristic of targaryens...they are extremely distinguishable with their platinum hair and purple eyes...Tyrion has blonde/black hair and mismatched eyes, so there might be something there, in terms of him possibly being a targ.

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From Game of Thrones, Jon POV 1:

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Then he saw the other one, waddling along half-hidden by his brother's side. Tyrion Lannister...all that the gods had given to Cersei and Jaime, they had denied Tyrion...One green eye and one black one peered out from under a lank fall of hair so blond it seemed white

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I was just going to bring that passage up Thomas. Tyrion doesn't have golden hair. He has almost white yellow hair. Targ hair.

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The "Dragon has 3 heads" is from the House of the Undying and is consistent with everything we know about dragons. The prophecies from the HotU have all come true or haven't yet come to pass. Dragons have riders. There are variables though. Just because you are a Targ doesn't mean you will be a rider and people without any Targ blood can also be riders. Hot Pie could be a rider for all we KNOW. Still the likelihood is 3 Targs.

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There are plenty of people out there with Targ blood. Dany obviously but also Stannis (the rightful king), and Aegon (fake or not) both have it. Tyrion doesn't need to be a targ for there to be three.

If anything, and i don't belive it, jamie and Cersei are Aery's kids. It makes much more sense for the kid that Tywin hates to be the only one that is his versus the ones he loves.

Im at the point where most of the theories i see now seems to be trying to hard to bend evidence to fit them or are just completely crackpot. It seems that every character has a secret parent or didn't actually die or whatever. It has gotten pretty ridiculous and at some point the text isn't trying to deceive you.





[This message has been edited by AgDev01 (edited 4/23/2014 5:21p).]

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The "Dragon has 3 heads" is from the House of the Undying and is consistent with everything we know about dragons.

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Are you saying Tyrion is a Targ because he is the third person in addition to jon and Dany?

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Not every Targ is a dragon. See viserys. What happens when varys' targaryen is not a dragon?

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What happens when varys' targaryen is not a dragon?

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Marries Margaery. Dies soon thereafter.

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What happens when varys' targaryen is not a dragon?

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Marries Margaery. Dies soon thereafter.

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So what's going to do Tommen in?

Yall forgetting young griff? No way tyrion is targ. Laughable.

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Yall forgetting young griff? No way tyrion is targ. Laughable.

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That's what i meant by varys' targaryen. Just because you are a targaryen, it doesn't make you a dragon.

If T

Cersei will die before she lets Tommen marry Margaery.