***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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1:07p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
I guess the Greyjoy brothers storyline being completely written off? Euron & Victarion are two great characters... I hope they show up at some point.

We'll probably get them in an upcoming season. D&D only introduce a few new characters at one time, and usually not in the middle of the season. of course we could get their initial introduction once we see Asha/Yara again and have Balon's death/Kingsmoot (which again, may not be until next season)
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mid90
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1:11p, 5/5/14
AG
LawAg, I saw that Facebook post too, but I'm dubious as to its validity.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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1:12p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
Oh, in regards to Bran: What does everyone think will become of Bran controlling Hodor? Seems like they've allowed the foundation to be set for Bran to do that whenever they get into trouble. Jojen seemed to encourage it last night. I can't remember the book but I thought Jojen wasn't comfortable that Bran did it that one time in the stronghold during the storm.

i dont recall. i only remember Jojen being concerned about Bran eating food while inside Summer, saying that it does him no good, etc. i dont remember if he voiced any concern when he warged into Hodor, although i may be mistaken.
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OnlyForNow
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1:48p, 5/5/14
AG
He did not want Bran to warg into humans because it "changes" them or something for the worse.


I would imagine next season episode 1 = kingsmoot.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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2:00p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
I would imagine next season episode 1 = kingsmoot.

that was my thought. kill Balon at the end of this season and then have your kingsmoot/intro of Victorion and Euron.
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hunter2012
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2:36p, 5/5/14
AG
I just hope they keep the Greyjoy storyline, it was getting super interesting by the end if DwD...
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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2:39p, 5/5/14
I highly doubt they don't include the storyline considering how big a role it plays in the upcoming books.
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Urban Ag
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2:44p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
I just hope they keep the Greyjoy storyline, it was getting super interesting by the end if DwD...


I found the whole Kingsmoot story to be overly drawn out and boring, but once Victarion set sail I thought it was pretty darn good. Bring on the dusky woman....
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AggieSouth06
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2:49p, 5/5/14
They're relatively light on new characters this season (really want to make the watchers like Oberyn and FEEL the impact of his death on the Dornish actions/alliances).

Next season they'll HAVE to introduce Arienne, Victarion, Brown Ben Plumm, Wyman Manderly, Aegon & Jon Connington, and COULD introduce Euron, Damphair, Areo Hotah, Randyll Tarly, Penny, and several others.
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redline248
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2:51p, 5/5/14
AG
I hope they don't introduce half those characters
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Urban Ag
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2:55p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
I highly doubt they don't include the storyline considering how big a role it plays in the upcoming books.


Hard to say. What if it goes the way of Quenten Martell?

I think GRRM sometimes writes as if he thinks he is going to write forever. The Iron Born have been sub characters. Maybe even sub-sub characters. What have they really contributed to the story other than Theon causing chaos in the north and a bump in the road for Bolton, Stannis, and Highgarden?

He's got himself dug so far in a hole right now that he has got to start ending these sub-plot storylines. I'm leaning towards the following happening:
Iron Born arrive at Slaver's Bay and turn the tide of the war in Dany's favor.
Victarion tries to seduce Dany, Dany plays along because she needs the Iron Born fleet. Selmy councils her against aligning with the Iron Born.
Victarion attempts to control the dragons with his dragon horn thing. It backfires. Dragons roast the Iron Born and Dany gets their fleet.

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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3:00p, 5/5/14
You're forgetting that Euron is currently attacking the Reach which has huge implications, essentially weakening the crown's forces as the Tyrell's must defend their homeland.
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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3:00p, 5/5/14
Wow, I feel nerdier than usual after writing that.
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redline248
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3:01p, 5/5/14
AG
I forgot what Euron was up to.
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Urban Ag
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3:06p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
You're forgetting that Euron is currently attacking the Reach which has huge implications, essentially weakening the crown's forces as the Tyrell's must defend their homeland.


Sure, but isn't that just more subterfuge for the weakening of the current alliance to help fuel the ability for the Aegon/Dornish/several other Targ loyal families, to take on the Iron Throne? The South is being set up to tear itself apart. The North is being set up to tear itself apart. By the time the WW make it to the wall (assuming that happens) the seven kingdoms will be completely embroiled in war again.

My only point being, I just don't see how important the Iron Born can be made to be, at this point, in the greater scheme of things, and such, can be written out of either the series or the books with little consequence.

[This message has been edited by Urban Ag (edited 5/5/2014 2:07p).]
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redline248
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3:11p, 5/5/14
AG
Well, Stannis has Theon and Asha, so who knows what impact, if any, that has on the iron born.
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redline248
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3:13p, 5/5/14
AG
Random thought: Does Stannis know about Dany and her dragons? Wonder what his position is on her claim to the throne? Guess he thinks none at all b/c she's a woman.
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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3:23p, 5/5/14
You have 4 relatively significant storylines for the Greyjoys (Asha/Yara, Theon, Victarion, and Euron), I just don't think it's likely that we won't have a whole lot of Greyjoy next season. Yara has already been established as a character in the show (I really hope they recast), Balon Greyjoy has to die, the death of Balon essentially guarantees the Kingsmoot will be covered since the introduction of Euron is pretty significant, and if they are introducing Euron at the kingsmoot, they will have to reintroduce Yara and likely Victarion, as well. Maybe they treat the Greyjoys as just peripheral characters for the remainder of the show, but I just don't see that happening given the amount of story that is devoted to them in the books.
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MSCAg
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3:24p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
Random thought: Does Stannis know about Dany and her dragons? Wonder what his position is on her claim to the throne? Guess he thinks none at all b/c she's a woman.


He doesn't consider the Targs royalty anymore since his brother dethroned them.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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3:32p, 5/5/14
AG
Yeah i agree that the Iron Fleet/Iron born storyline got very interesting AFTER the kingsmoot. though the great thing about TV is that you can quickly show it and get the same result that took chapters in the novel (which was really developing the characters of Euron/Victarion/Damphair and their relationship to one another)

Plus, the Iron Fleet has to be how GRRM plans to get Dany across the Narrow sea and into Westeros. how and under what circumstances I dunno, but that has to be the plan.

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Urban Ag
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3:52p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
but I just don't see that happening given the amount of story that is devoted to them in the books.


I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying there are a lot of outs available to speed up the pace here.

See, this is what the whole Quenten Martell debacle did to me. You bumble through chapter after chapter in ADWD only to have Dany emasculate him, then he cooks (no pun intended) up this ridiculous idea of stealing the dragons (or a dragon) and gets BBQ'd in the process. The end. I can't be the only one that caught with an elevated sense of WTF?/waste of time was that?

I just have this feeling that the Iron Born (sans the Theo/Asha) portion is going to end up being Quenten Martell only times 10.
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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3:56p, 5/5/14
I wouldn't be surprised if that did happen. As for Quentyn, do y'all think he will be included in the TV show? I feel like the show watcher's reaction to his storyline would be kind of hilarious if he was. It's like GRRM created that character for the sole purpose of killing him.
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redline248
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3:59p, 5/5/14
AG
Who knows what is going to happen in the books but the show established last night that Dany has a fleet of her own. No need for the Ironborn to go to Slaver's Bay. That is probably good evidence that they don't matter.
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rhutton125
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4:01p, 5/5/14
AG
Interesting post (made before last night's episode) about how much "book material" remains:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hbo-game-of-thrones-book-characters/

Neat takeaway: Bran has 3 "chapters" left over the next 15 episodes. That's why we get diversions like Craster's keep, and likely Coldhands at a later date.

[This message has been edited by rhutton125 (edited 5/5/2014 3:01p).]
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Urban Ag
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4:02p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
As for Quentyn, do y'all think he will be included in the TV show? I feel like the show watcher's reaction to his storyline would be kind of hilarious if he was. It's like GRRM created that character for the sole purpose of killing him.


I don't think there is a chance Quentyn is included. I'm picturing a board room full of HBO suits shaking their heads no. However, the reaction you noted may be the same ones fans have for the Red Viper in a couple weeks.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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4:03p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
See, this is what the whole Quenten Martell debacle did to me. You bumble through chapter after chapter in ADWD only to have Dany emasculate him, then he cooks (no pun intended) up this ridiculous idea of stealing the dragons (or a dragon) and gets BBQ'd in the process. The end. I can't be the only one that caught with an elevated sense of WTF?/waste of time was that?

perhaps I am still naive, but i have to believe that an author capable of such subtlety and long story arcs with a specific endgame, would just have this superfluous storyline out of the blue and to kill the character off with no point in mind. I have to think there is a reason behind it.
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Urban Ag
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4:03p, 5/5/14
AG
redline good point
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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4:04p, 5/5/14
Yeah, but at least Oberyn doesn't go out with an "oh".
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redline248
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4:08p, 5/5/14
AG
And not the good kind of "oh" either.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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4:11p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
Who knows what is going to happen in the books but the show established last night that Dany has a fleet of her own. No need for the Ironborn to go to Slaver's Bay. That is probably good evidence that they don't matter.

They could also use Daario as one of Dany's "betrayers" and have him take the fleet over to the Yunkai, thus making it more of a gut punch to her (since they still havent introduced Brown ben, nor did Barristan portray himself as Whitebeard)

regardless, these subtle changes definitely create a butterfly effect so who knows where they take it.
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Malachi Constant
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4:13p, 5/5/14
AG
I had a sinking feeling every time I got to a Greyjoy chapter when I was reading through the first time.

Good Gravy what a waste of time they've been.
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Urban Ag
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4:16p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
perhaps I am still naive, but i have to believe that an author capable of such subtlety and long story arcs with a specific endgame, would just have this superfluous storyline out of the blue and to kill the character off with no point in mind. I have to think there is a reason behind it.


I would wager that it started out with some significant reason but he finally showed some restraint and made the decision not to go down that rabbit hole. I mean, GRRM is brilliant but the last minute notion that the dorishmen and a few sellswords were going to kipnap a fire breathing dragon, through it in a wheelbarrow, and haul ass for Sunspear was really weak, really not his style.

I'm just speculating, could be completely wrong. But I've noted before that I don't think (hope I'm wrong) he will finish ADOS and will let HBO finish out the story per his instructions. At some point they simply have to end or ignore all the sub-plots that seemingly do little to finish they story. IMO.

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Urban Ag
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4:19p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
They could also use Daario as one of Dany's "betrayers" and have him take the fleet over to the Yunkai, thus making it more of a gut punch to her (since they still havent introduced Brown ben, nor did Barristan portray himself as Whitebeard)


And this would further delay obfuscate her invasion of Westeros so you know that's exactly what's going to happen.
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MSCAg
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4:29p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying there are a lot of outs available to speed up the pace here.

See, this is what the whole Quenten Martell debacle did to me. You bumble through chapter after chapter in ADWD only to have Dany emasculate him, then he cooks (no pun intended) up this ridiculous idea of stealing the dragons (or a dragon) and gets BBQ'd in the process. The end. I can't be the only one that caught with an elevated sense of WTF?/waste of time was that?

I just have this feeling that the Iron Born (sans the Theo/Asha) portion is going to end up being Quenten Martell only times 10.


I was fine with the Quenten chapters. Sometimes people are just incredibly stupid and not everything is part of some deeper plot.

I do think the Iron Born will be important because that is how Danny gets to Westros.
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AgDev01
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5:05p, 5/5/14
AG
quote:
I have to think there is a reason behind it.


I think the purpose of those chapters were to provide a reason for Dorne to ally with Aegon of Dany. In there law she has the better claim to the throne under Aery's and thus with Quentyn dying and rejecting the proposal they will feel free to move of to the next targ.
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