Forgot about what it was before the Ts showed up. At least I got the others right

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The North, The Reach, The Vale, The Iron Islands, The Stormlands, The Westerlands, and Dorne were kingdoms.

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North Starks
Reach Tyrells
Vale Arryns
Iron Islands Greyjoys
Stormlands Baratheons
Westerlands Lannisters
Dorne Martells

before the Targaryens conquered Westeros, it was House Gardener that controlled the Reach

It was also House Durrendon that controlled Storms End and the House Harren that controlled the Riverlands and the Iron Islands. The Tyrells and the Tullys were both rewarded for bending the knee after the Gardeners and Harrens were killed by Aegon and his dragons. House Durrendon was overtaken by Orys Baratheon that was one of Aegon's generals that killed the head of the House and then took over Storms End, their words and sigil.

^
Man I want to re-read the Duncan and Egg stories now. I love the pre-Robert's Rebellion history abd stories

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Man I want to re-read the Duncan and Egg stories now. I love the pre-Robert's Rebellion history abd stories

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ok, help a brother out. Are these graphic novels, novels, novellas? One book or several? thanks

Three short stories, about 100 pages each. The Hedge Knight, The Sworn Sword, and The Mystery Knight. They actually don't talk much about the Pre-Targ era but they do talk a lot about the Blackfyres which is really great context for understanding Bloodraven and Bittersteel (who founded the Golden Company) as well as so much other context. Bloodraven (ie Three Eyed Crow) makes LF and Varys look like babes in the woods.

I really want to know how they end as well because it is known that Ser Duncan and later King Aegon died at Summerhall trying to birth a dragon.

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But knowing this adds to my confusion about the Freys' and Boltons' motivation. As a reward for their loyalty to Tywin the Frey's get Riverrun and the Boltons get Winterfell. Seems like fleeting reward to me. Now that the Starks and Tullys are dead or at least out of power, shouldn't they be given the lord paramount title.

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The Starks aren't dead and Tywin was very calculating in the moves he made with Bolton. He didn't want the Starks dead because ultimately he wanted a "Stark" in control of the North.

The idea of family bloodoaths is important to the great Houses holding their power. They don't want it to seem doable to just kill off a great House's family in order to take control.

Even in terms of the Frey's, a big part of the plan was getting Edmure to marry the Frey girl and knock her up. That's why his life depended on whether it was a boy or girl he got her pregnant with. If it was a boy, the Frey's could kill Edmure and let the newest Tully male take over Riverrun.

I appreciate everyone's responses. You've all helped enrich my show watching experience. And thanks for not spoiling anything (especially JJxvi). I'll at least tell the people I watch with what I learned and maybe share some of it with the non-spoiler thread.

I guess my frustration is that the show doesn't hold the audience's hand enough. I think in medieval Europe, the primary title is the one with the most land not the grandest castle. If aliens landed on the King of France's court, He would introduce himself as King of France, Duke of whatever, count of whatever, and LASTLY lord of Versailles. Since we're basically aliens to this world of westeros and because there are a lot of titles, I think they should do the same on the show for people like me.

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Three short stories, about 100 pages each. The Hedge Knight, The Sworn Sword, and The Mystery Knight. They actually don't talk much about the Pre-Targ era but they do talk a lot about the Blackfyres which is really great context for understanding Bloodraven and Bittersteel (who founded the Golden Company) as well as so much other context. Bloodraven (ie Three Eyed Crow) makes LF and Varys look like babes in the woods.

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This thread inspired me to check this out from the campus library (has The Hedge Knight)

They do this in Westeros, the titles are just simpler, if you want to learn more of the setup search history of westeros:
This is a good place to start. I think it was on the DVDs

They don't hand hold because they don't have the time with only 10 episodes per season.

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They don't hand hold because they don't have the time with only 10 episodes per season.

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This is why the books helped me understand the story so much better. Most people I know watch the show with closed captions on to understand names/places/etc. better. The books go multiple steps further than that in expanding on the history of families, westeros, etc.

I don't usually watch a show/movie before reading the book, but I did watch seasons 1 & 2 first, because I kept putting off the books. I immediately binge-read after I binge-watched though and am much happier and more informed.

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Also, RE:Jon Snow

I think it is highly likely that Jon Snow is the protypical fantasy ******* son who is really heir to the kingdom and also the chosen one, but thinking that is actually going to come to fruition in the storyline? No way will GRRM allow such a cliché, I think its much more likely its true just to foil whats really going to happen to him. Jon Snow the character might not ever even know, but GRRM will probably tell the audience all about it through Reed.

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Jon won't ever end up as king even if he finds out about his parents. There are many other options on where his story goes and I don't see him in kings landing I'm Amy of them.

Stannis Baratheon, the rightful heir to the crown will end up on the iron throne after he crushes dany, aegon, and the lannisters.

I'd like to know how a man with an army cut in shreds at the Blackwater and then freezing in the northern winter is going to crush an army led by dragons...

Unless, of course, Dany never makes it to westeros

Dany = Queen
Tyrion = Hand
Jon = Lord of Winterfell
Stannis = dead

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Stannis Baratheon, the rightful heir to the crown will end up on the iron throne after he crushes dany, aegon, and the lannisters.

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[This message has been edited by mid90 (edited 4/10/2014 3:11p).]

I challenge anyone to come up with a plausible theory in which Stannis does not die as a result of Melisandre's incorrect prediction that he is Azor Ahai reborn.

I imagine he'll try to kill an other with 'Lightbringer', then realize he's been duped as the other rides him down with its massive snow spider.

The key to Stannis is Rickon being returned and the Manderlys. Those two things work out he will take the north and have an amrmy behind him to defeat whatever is left of dany/aegon after those two clash.

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I challenge anyone to come up with a plausible theory in which Stannis does not die as a result of Melisandre's incorrect prediction that he is Azor Ahai reborn.

I imagine he'll try to kill an other with 'Lightbringer', then realize he's been duped as the other rides him down with its massive snow spider.

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i am kinda hoping he becomes new Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. Just think he ultimately, is the "perfect" fit for the role. He's a Commander, not a King.

but you are probably correct, in that he will likely be killed.

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i am kinda hoping he becomes new Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. Just think he ultimately, is the "perfect" fit for the role. He's a Commander, not a King.

but you are probably correct, in that he will likely be killed.

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Exactly. Most likely he will be killed, but he has what it takes to make something out of the Night's Watch even if they continue to use criminals, outcasts, etc. He can fight, and he doesn't put up with any crap.

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I challenge anyone to come up with a plausible theory in which Stannis does not die as a result of Melisandre's incorrect prediction that he is Azor Ahai reborn.

I imagine he'll try to kill an other with 'Lightbringer', then realize he's been duped as the other rides him down with its massive snow spider.

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i am kinda hoping he becomes new Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. Just think he ultimately, is the "perfect" fit for the role. He's a Commander, not a King.

but you are probably correct, in that he will likely be killed.

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Wow Lord Commander Baratheon would be pretty perfect for the wall. Hadn't thought of that!

On another note, when do y'all think we're gonna see Lady Stoneheart? Surprises of that magnitude have previously been saved for episode 9 (Ned's death, red wedding, etc). But I think (hope) she might show up before then. Of course I'm assuming they will show her in season 4.

I think she shows up as the Cliffhanger for this season; if I had to guess.

I still expect them to have her show up late in the season. Episode 9 or 10.

The director for the "Battle of Blackwater bay" episode is back for a "battle" in the 2nd to last episode of the season, I think it will be the Stannis/Wilding battle.

That being said I think that the Lady Stoneheart reveal would be an awesome way to cap the season. If I remember correctly that's how GRRM finishes SoS. Judging the first episode I doubt they'll need to touch FfC/DwD, plenty of material to finish the season.

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The director for the "Battle of Blackwater bay" episode is back for a "battle" in the 2nd to last episode of the season, I think it will be the Stannis/Wilding battle.

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I have a hard time being excited since I consider that the biggest miss of the series. It was much more dramatic in the book and them leaving out the chain, which Tyrion pretty much started building months before on his second day of the job, was a major mistake.

It showed how damn smart he was.

They are also creating some content by extending the hound/arya storyline

I think Lady Stoneheart emerges in Episode 3. I saw a Westeros video that they talked about was talking about the upcoming season and they had seen the first 3 episodes. It actually wasn't very compelling overall because they couldn't talk about spoilers even though they had seen it so it was kind of awkward. In the process though they let slip about how a character that they have been unhappy with in terms of how the show has handled them re-emerging in Episode 3. They have in the past been very critical of how Catelyn has been handled on the show, thus I think it is her.

Also, while in the books they have big time gaps between what is going on with different characters they have haven't done as much in the show. If they wait until the end of the season to a show watcher it will come across as awkward to have them wait what will feel like months to have her re-emerge after what is only a few days. A lot of it depends on whether they add a scene of the "Kiss of Life" which I think they will or if they treat it like the books and just talk about it in past tense.

I think next episode will be heavily focused on KL and the Purple Wedding with a Title being "The Lion and the Rose" with brief snippets in to the characters we haven't seen. It's GRRM's chapter that he wrote as well which is interesting.

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It showed how damn smart he was.

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I think they achieved that with the wildfire, you see that he's capable of planning well in advance. Plus it makes for a cooler special effects.

I do agree that the chain in the book was awesome, but Stannis would have also had to attack on land too. If the whole attack was by sea then they'd be screwed by the chain as soon as they enter the bay.

[This message has been edited by hunter2012 (edited 4/11/2014 9:24a).]

I don't think joff does this week. Think not is next week, or he collapses at the end of the episode.

It could also be that we see stannis again in ep 3, and not stone heart. Although, he was the same person on the show as the books. Just cast off of my thinking

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I doubt they'll need to touch FfC/DwD

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They already are. Those storylines will work their way heavily into this season. Arya will make it to Braavos, Brienne will set out with Podrick, Jaime will probably make it to the Riverlands (we may even see Edmure this season), Dany will begin her boring rule of Slaver's Bay (there's a dragon-eats-kid shot in one of the teasers), they'll have to figure out how to keep Theon and Ramsay in the story, etc.

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Also, while in the books they have big time gaps between what is going on with different characters they have haven't done as much in the show. If they wait until the end of the season to a show watcher it will come across as awkward to have them wait what will feel like months to have her re-emerge after what is only a few days. A lot of it depends on whether they add a scene of the "Kiss of Life" which I think they will or if they treat it like the books and just talk about it in past tense.

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i dont think they show the "kiss" at all on screen. i think you could easily have a scene or two with the BwB finding bodies related to the red wedding, drop some hints in various episodes about Beric "giving up his life" or whatnot, then end the season thoros and the BwB executing some freys, and Stoneheart emerging in the final scene....duh duh duh!

Stoneheart should be towards the beginning of the season.

Sandra said last episode that she was thrown in the river. They won't wait 8 episodes to followup.

So are they skipping the Greyjoy storyline? That's a huge part in FfC...

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I think they achieved that with the wildfire, you see that he's capable of planning well in advance. Plus it makes for a cooler special effects.

I do agree that the chain in the book was awesome, but Stannis would have also had to attack on land too. If the whole attack was by sea then they'd be screwed by the chain as soon as they enter the bay.

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Yes, but the chain is what ruined Stannis' fleet. They were trapped in the burning bay. They kind of dues ex machina'ed the wildfire by making in explosive when really what did it was it floating, burning on the river and the Stannis' fleet just having to sit in it.

The series just had Tyrion send in a big bomb, when really in the book, it was much more dramatic because Tyrion scarified a large part of the Royal fleet (with sailors aboard).