***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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marble rye
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1:01p, 6/10/14
AG
Such srs business. Do these people have children? Spouses? Lives?

I mean, have none of those things and it's the only reason I post here.
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hunter2012
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1:19p, 6/10/14
AG
How is R+L=J a spoiler anyway? in the books we haven't heard of any new details regarding this theory. Is it a "book exclusive theory" thus making it a spoiler? Or are we readers just supposed to be snobs about our "inside knowledge"?
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Zombie Jon Snow
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1:27p, 6/10/14
AG
no..it's a spoiler because talking about jon's lineage is simply an indication that he is still important to book readers...and thus alive...which is a spoiler to the ongoing TV show as it makes any scene with jon in peril spoiled as you know he lives.

if it were not for that it would not be a spoiler, because it is just a theory....but then again...people on that thread might still be pissed.



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Atreides Ornithopter
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1:34p, 6/10/14
AG
quote:
The best part is we don't even know if the whole R+L=J thing is right or not...


This is true, but I consider it pretty much fact that Ned is NOT Jon's father.
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Woxon
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1:44p, 6/10/14
AG
We need a third thread for discussing what counts as a spoiler so the two other threads can go back to real discussion
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MW03
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1:50p, 6/10/14
AG
quote:
It's also an indirect indication that Jon is still alive in the books. His lineage is not really important if he is dead. Thereby it's a spoiler.


This. It'd be like wondering out loud if Tyrion is a targ. Might be a nonsense theory, but it's mere existence means that Tyrion makes it out of KL.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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1:52p, 6/10/14
AG
and again...they think i'm their problem. laughable.

that thread needs to be pre-monitored...all posts should be scrutinized by a book reader first.

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Zombie Jon Snow
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1:55p, 6/10/14
AG
they do not even realize.....many many episodes ago this season, someone on there postulated that catelyn was going to return with an army seeking revenge.....

thankfully it got no traction and i was not going to call attention to it.

but wow
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MW03
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1:58p, 6/10/14
AG
I'm just going over there to talk about hotties and look at gifs. And read their reactions. I'm not answering any questions.
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redline248
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1:59p, 6/10/14
AG
What page?
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aggie93
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2:03p, 6/10/14
AG
quote:
hope he warged into Ghost though


This is very, very unlikely. It has since been revealed that when a warg goes in to an animal and their "host body" dies they can't warg again. So that would mean Jon would permanently be Ghost which would suck as a story line.

Jon either doesn't die and recovers, is brought back to life by Mel (most likely), or is truly dead (though Martin has all but said that he isn't). The Mel rebirth makes the most sense as he could be "reborn as Azor Ahai" and all the elements exist to make that work.
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mid90
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2:06p, 6/10/14
AG
I'm just excited to have Jon not be dead
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mid90
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2:07p, 6/10/14
AG
at least, not yet
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MSCAg
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2:19p, 6/10/14
AG
Man, I need to browse the non-spoiler thread more.

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The Dog Lord
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2:22p, 6/10/14
AG
http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/game-of-thrones-schedule-inside-joke?mbid=social_facebook

Did they schedule this season so that the last episode (Tywin's presumed death) would fall on Father's Day?!?
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hunter2012
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2:28p, 6/10/14
AG
I love the rational for why a Jon is still alive or will be resurrected, "he's vital to the story there's no way that GRRM would kill a character when his birth is obviously important."

The fact that some book readers are 5 books in and still don't grasp,"GRRM giveth, and GRRM taketh away especially at weddings." At this point I hope Jon is alive, but I would be mildly surprised if it were the case...
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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2:28p, 6/10/14
That link led me to finding out Khal Drogo was once on Baywatch:Hawaii.

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Zombie Jon Snow
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3:05p, 6/10/14
AG
hunter - i have no misgiving about GRRM or what he would or won't do....


but previously when a character has been killed it has been rather direct - explicit description and first person account.

jon's whereabouts and fate are currently the subject of hearsay and rumor only. not GRRM's way to kill a character.

was there any doubt about the deaths of - ned, drogo, viserys, renly, robb, catelyn, joffrey, oberyn, tywin, shae, ygritte, lyssa, etc.

others he is now being obtuse about - jon, the hound.

given his track record if he wanted them dead, they would be dead.

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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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3:11p, 6/10/14
AG
quote:
http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/game-of-thrones-schedule-inside-joke?mbid=social_facebook

Did they schedule this season so that the last episode (Tywin's presumed death) would fall on Father's Day?!?

holy crap! didnt make that connection at all. so frickin funny!
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The Dog Lord
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3:12p, 6/10/14
AG
^ What he(Mchensel) said, and also what someone else had mentioned before about it fitting in nicely to the Azor Ahai reborn prophecy.

[This message has been edited by The Dog Lord (edited 6/10/2014 2:13p).]
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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3:12p, 6/10/14
AG
quote:
but previously when a character has been killed it has been rather direct - explicit description and first person account.

jon's whereabouts and fate are currently the subject of hearsay and rumor only. not GRRM's way to kill a character.

was there any doubt about the deaths of - ned, drogo, viserys, renly, robb, catelyn, joffrey, oberyn, tywin, shae, ygritte, lyssa, etc.

others he is now being obtuse about - jon, the hound.

given his track record if he wanted them dead, they would be dead.


Thats true, but GRRM has also indicated that he published aDwD earlier than anticipated and make things a little more "cliffhang-ary" than he wanted
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mid90
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3:27p, 6/10/14
AG
re: deaths being in first person chapters


here's something to get your Ned Stark hopes up

Ned not dead theory
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Malachi Constant
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3:43p, 6/10/14
AG
Ned's Dead, baby
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SoTXAg09
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3:44p, 6/10/14
AG
Ned is SO dead.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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3:51p, 6/10/14
AG
He dead...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJODirze5EM
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mid90
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4:03p, 6/10/14
AG
yeah probably


I just like to think that GRRM isn't a heartless *******.
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mid90
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4:04p, 6/10/14
AG
probably = most likely = no chance = he dead
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SoTXAg09
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4:05p, 6/10/14
AG
We all liked Ned, but he didn't even make it through book 1 of 7. It was a shock at the time, but not nearly as big of a deal now, IMO.
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USAF Ag 99
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4:28p, 6/10/14
AG
quote:
others he is now being obtuse about - jon, the hound.


Add Loras "the Knight of Flowers" Tyrell to that list...his demise was all second-hand and was not witnessed first-person in the books. That tends to make me think his storyline is not complete.

[This message has been edited by USAF Ag 99 (edited 6/10/2014 3:29p).]
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Karrde
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5:08p, 6/10/14
AG
Davos was also secondhand-dead, which royally ticked me off. I was glad he wasn't.
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The Dog Lord
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5:23p, 6/10/14
AG
Let us not forget the suspected return of second-hand dead Gregor Clegane as Robert Strong. May he be a shining example for all other second-hand dead to follow.
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Capstone
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12:52a, 6/11/14
AG
Does anyone listen to the weekly podcast (A Cast of Kings) that Joanna Robinson is a part of? She is the one that wrote the Vanity Fair article linked above.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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9:39a, 6/11/14


from the other thread.
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mid90
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10:57a, 6/11/14
AG
Another round of book reader witch hunts going on in the other thread, with no book reader having done a damn thing.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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11:26a, 6/11/14
So to get off the "let's all look at the other thread" theme here (which I foolishly contributed to) - I've been reading ADWD and am pretty interested in what is going to happen between Stannis and the Boltons, particularly given Ramsay's letter to Jon Snow claiming he has Mance and has killed Stannis.

I've just passed the part where the Boltons and their bannermen at Winterfell here Stannis' war horns and Theon and Jeyne Poole escape.

With tensions mounting, Bolton sends out the Manderly knights as well as many of the Freys out as the van to find Stannis' encampment and attack.

Up until re-reading this, I really felt Stannis' situation was totally hopeless - snowbound, men dying left and right, and just exhausted from the cold. But now it seems like all the Manderlys have to do is turn on the Freys once the battle is joined, and whatever is left of Stannis' forces will then have new allies, massive intel on what the status of Winterfell is, etc.

I can even see them going as far as having a bunch of Stannis' men dress up in Frey armor and clothing and ride back into Winterfell with the Manderlys and start killing everyone, not to mention opening the gates for Stannis' army.

Thoughts?
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