***Official Game of Thrones: Season 4 Thread (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

207,070 Views | 2149 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Twelfthman
The Debt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
I'm not sure the lords of Westeros are going to buy into Jon Snowgareyn just because some crannoman pops up and says he's Lyanna's boy from the way back.

However, if Aegon is really Aegon, and he, Jon Snowgareyn and Daenerys all show up in KL, who is #1 heir to the throne (assuming you don't use the dragons as leverage).

Aegon is Rheagar's son (best claim)
Jon (if Rhaegar wed lyanna after Elia was killed)
Stannis (2nd cousin of aegon, targaryen blood)
Dany (cuz she is a woman)
mid90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Howland Reed = New High Septon theory???
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
One more thing, if R + L = J, then Jon Snow is merely Jon Sand. Rhaegar was legally married to Elia Martell. Unless KL is sacked and then Rhaegar calls in a septon.



^not according to Targaryen "rules"...they defy the rest of Westeros in 2 main areas allowing siblings and other relatives to marry and still maintain their rightful heir rights (in fact they prefer it as they want as much pure Targaryen blood as possible AND historically also they allowed princes and kings having multiple legitimate wives. It was not practiced after they lost their dragons because i guess they could not enforce it as well (?) or had no heavy handed threat. But I would think they could pretty easily legitimize it especially if they were officially married according to Targaryen practice.

[This message has been edited by mchensel (edited 6/4/2014 9:41p).]
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
INTERESTING Howland Reed theory....
mid90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
really no idea how it's going to play out, but I really like the idea of Howland avenging/helping the Starks as a lone individual in a place of influence rather than with an army of crannogmen.
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Let me stop you on that Howland Reed theory. Reed is from the north and the old gods are worshipped in the north. No way he'd go be high septon of the seven.

mid90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Reed is from the north.....ish


let's just say I could see a guy from the choke point connecting the north to the rest of westeros having a 'coexist' bumper sticker on his horse
MW03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Who knows honestly. I love that theory.
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
From my ATT Uverse - here's the summary for "The Children" - Some unexpected changes occur as a result of a new arrival north of the Wall; Dany is forced to come face to face with a few difficult truths; Bran uncovers more about his destiny; the truth of his situation finally becomes clear to Tyrion.
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
From my ATT Uverse - here's the summary for "The Children" - Some unexpected changes occur as a result of a new arrival north of the Wall; Dany is forced to come face to face with a few difficult truths; Bran uncovers more about his destiny; the truth of his situation finally becomes clear to Tyrion.

So Stannis does arrive, Dany has to chain her dragons and/or realizes she needs to remarry, Bran makes it to the three-eyed raven, and Tyrion does his thing.
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The theory itself is interesting and pretty well thought out, though. Again, with Martin, anything is possible.
mid90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
new arrival north of the wall?


hmmmm sounds like something from beyond the scope of the books? or maybe Mance?



nvm it sounds like Stannis, though I had assumed that happens in episode 9

[This message has been edited by mid90 (edited 6/4/2014 10:50p).]
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Mance or Stannis
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think he will arrive at the end of 9, but just to save the day. The changes and result of his appearance will be in 10.
hunter2012
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think Arya and Sansa reach their destinations too, Bravos and the winter retreat from the vale... Isn't the Sansa story wrapped up from the books pretty much... I think it wraps up with a montage of all the kids reaching their destination and then...Stoneheart...credits...
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I feel like there are some "Alayne" chapters left to be dealt with (not that I remember any of them). They probably aren't headed down from the Eyrie yet.
jenn96
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Where does the wet nurse Willa come into play? Didn't one of the Brothers Without Banners that knew Arya tell her about being Jon's milk brother, or something?

She was probably Jon's wet nurse for real, just not his mom. Jon was borne in Dorne; they would have needed to get him a wet nurse or he would have died, and Wylla was a wet nurse for the Dayne family - which was where Ned went after the TOJ.

(All assuming R+L=J of course. But I'm with the poster above; it is so strongly supported in the text that at this point, if R+L is NOT J, then basically Ned's entire inner monologue in Game of Thrones is bull - and that would be really bad writing. I personally have wondered if introducing grown up Baby Aegon in ADWD - who is an obvious retcon, no way was he part of the original plan back when Game of Thrones was written - is because GRRM is trying to come up with a way to turn R+L=J on its head now that everyone with an internet connection knows about it. Basically, by having Fake Aegon turn out to be Lyanna and Rheagars child, and Jon is Ned's basterd after all. But I don't think the dates line up and I can't imagine how Ned could have gotten the baby to Illario to be raised as Fake Aegon, so that's probably not it and I think the Blackfyre theories are a lot more likely.



[This message has been edited by jenn96 (edited 6/4/2014 11:21p).]
mid90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
I think it wraps up with a montage of all the kids reaching their destination and then...Stoneheart...credits...

Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Aegon is supposed to be Rhaeger and Elia's child not Rhaegar and Lyanna...or are you suggesting another switcheroo whereby he is the Lyanna baby..but then was raised believing he was the lgitimate Aegon instead...that doesn't make much sense.

Alternately I think it's just to cast doubt on Jon's claim if in fact he is proven to be legitimized because Aegon would have the claim by earlier birthright - if he is truly Aegon. But like the earlier poster mentioned how would Varys have known the baby would be so mutilated as to be unrecognizable. Seems more like a ruse born after the fact and very much like something Varys might do.
aggie93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Blue Star for this comment, well done:

quote:
let's just say I could see a guy from the choke point connecting the north to the rest of westeros having a 'coexist' bumper sticker on his horse


My immediate thought was to dismiss the HR theory on the Old Gods point as well but then I read it. It really makes a lot of sense and is less of a reach than many things in the books, especially the point that the Septon seems to have an affection for the Starks (who aren't of the Seven) and clearly does not care for the Lannisters (who are).

Moreso, what do we know about HR? Our primary knowledge of him is the story of the Tourney of Harrenhall. What happened there? HR left the Neck ALONE and went on an adventure. He came across the Tourney and did not announce himself as a Lord. He also was clearly involved in the Knight of the Laughing Tree (though this was likely Lyanna). It really isn't a reach at all to assume that he would disguise himself as a Septon, he could also likely use his wisdom and knowledge (which is apparent) to win over the common folk easily.

Also, the followers of the Old Gods have a different idea of being devout. You don't really hear them talk about blasphemy or have a negative attitude about other religions. Ned was very comfortable with allowing Cat to remain faithful to the Seven and to raise his children in both faiths.

I have always thought the crannogmen have some COTF blood in them but I don't know that that helps or hurts the theory.

HR as the High Septon would be awesome. It doesn't make sense for him to raise and army of crannogmen since they are little folks who don't have much money and use non traditional weapons, they would be crushed in a normal battle.

jenn96
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Aegon is supposed to be Rhaeger and Elia's child not Rhaegar and Lyanna...or are you suggesting another switcheroo whereby he is the Lyanna baby..but then was raised believing he was the lgitimate Aegon instead...that doesn't make much sense.

Another switcheroo - and yes, I agree it's a dumb theory. My thought was that having Aegon - Young Griff - turn out to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's child would be a retconned work-around if GRRM decided to change the story because everyone already knows about R+L=J. It would keep continuity from Ned's chapters where he dreams about Lyanna and the TOJ, and her promise, only instead of raising her son as his own, he sends him off to a safe place to be raised. And then Varys and Illario (unknown to Ned) work to put him on the throne since he's Rhaegar's son, pretending he's Aegon to strengthen the legitimacy of his claim.

Like I said, it's a dumb idea that fell apart as soon as I gave it more than 5 minutes of thought. It was just a way that occurred to me that GRRM could get out of R+L=J if he wanted to change the ending from his original plot without leaving a million loose ends, since I think the textual evidence that Lyanna had a baby is pretty strong.
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
^yeah besides being a real stretch it would also really hurt the longterm reputation of Ned Stark. I think everyone wants him to not be the cheater we thought he was and even for UnCat to find out in the end that he was always faithful and was just protecting the realm and fulfilling an oath given on the deathbed of his sister.

instead this would mean Ned really was just a cheating *******....i'm not sure GRRM would do that to him if he always intended him to be the ultimate good guy.

so i still think it's a misdirection invented to disguise the real ultimate reveal however it turns out to be done.
BigN--00
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
OnlyForNow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
wow.
tamusc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Awesome
mid90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
rollo.Gator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Hilarious picture!!! Kuh kuh
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That is so awesome
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Also, the followers of the Old Gods have a different idea of being devout. You don't really hear them talk about blasphemy or have a negative attitude about other religions. Ned was very comfortable with allowing Cat to remain faithful to the Seven and to raise his children in both faiths.

Others who support the HR = the new High Septon theory have pointed other things out like how he has images of the seven carved into the walls, which seems rather similar to the faces carved into the heart trees for worshipers of the old gods.
MW03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
http://i.imgur.com/pIwTpt7.jpg

Interesting image the nerds over at Reddit found from the Season 4 Trailer
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
i dont see her wearing a gold chain...wonder if he'll just use his impy, bare hands instead of strangling her with the chain?
aggie93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Can't really see her neck though.
hunter2012
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I remember that, Tyrions exit from KL is going to be SWEET!!!
LawAg05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I dont care how he strangles her, I just want him to do it soon.
MW03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm think she's going to get stabbed by the Hand of the King pin

 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.