***** Official 2019/2020 Texas Rangers Off Season Thread *****

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Fuzzy Dunlop
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 3:32p, 1/21/20
AG
Proposition Joe said:
There's not many realistic scenarios in which he waives his opt out.

Waiving an opt-out to fast-track a trade from one team just to go to another team where you'd then be locked in for 7 years doesn't make a lot of sense.


Except that Arenado is pretty pissed at the CO front office right now. I know he likes the Cards but St Louis is saying they are done for this year. This would get JD some Goodwill with the fans after dropping the ball on Rendon. I'm doubtful it happens but I would love it if it does happen.
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hawk1689
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4:12p, 1/21/20
AG
You guys are ignoring the Coors Field effect in your lust for Arenado.
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investorAg83
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In reply to hawk1689 • 4:36p, 1/21/20
AG
hawk1689 said:
You guys are ignoring the Coors Field effect in your lust for Arenado.
Go back a couple pages.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to hawk1689 • 8:57p, 1/21/20
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wbt5845
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5:32a, 1/22/20
AG
While the opt-out scares me, it doesn't scare me too much. If he's worth more than 35 million after 2021, he's been an MVP a couple of seasons.
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94chem
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 6:52a, 1/22/20
DallasAg 94 said:
Lost in some of this Astros hitters cheating, is the pitching. Trevor Bauer has been very vocal about Gerritt Cole and spin rate.

With all the scrutiny, it will be interesting to see if the Yankees just signed the pitching version of Alex Rodriguez.

Career 3.50 ERA in Pittsburgh, moves to Houston and has a 2.68 ERA. His ERAs in Pitt were headed in the wrong direction:

2.60 (2015), 3.88 (2016), 4.26 (2017) /Moves to Hou/ 2.88 (2018), 2.50 (2019)

Detroit couldn't find a trade partner for Verlander and had to pay Houston $8M on 2 seasons (2018/2019) on a $28M salary, just to unload him. Very few teams were interested.

He goes to Houston and throws a 1.06 ERA in 5 GS to complete 2017. Goes on to have 2 of his best seasons ever (2nd and 3rd best ERA) at ages 35 and 36. He had a 3.49 ERA in Detroit. He has a 2.45 ERA in Houston. A guy known to be a phenomenal pitcher... at age 35, spend the next 2 seasons with ERAs a full run lower?!

Can't wait to see if Verlander can keep it going. I'm interested to see if the Yankees bought snake oil.

Where are all the "Nolan Ryan built the Rangers and it shows with his Astros success?"


I've been wondering about the real reason why Ryan left the Astros.
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hawk1689
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 7:29a, 1/22/20
AG
Even with the defense, is a .265/30 guy worth the risk in both prospects and salary commitment?
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Rossko
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In reply to hawk1689 • 7:43a, 1/22/20
AG
hawk1689 said:
Even with the defense, is a .265/30 guy worth the risk in both prospects and salary commitment?
The more sour grapes between Arenado & the Rockies front office, the lower his price if he is moved. We just need Arenado to keep talking ****, plan to not show up for camp and create a toxic atmosphere the longer he stays. Hopefully JD & the Rangers will be the ones to swoop in and reap the benefits.
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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In reply to hawk1689 • 7:59a, 1/22/20
AG
hawk1689 said:
Even with the defense, is a .265/30 guy worth the risk in both prospects and salary commitment?


I understand you question and have had the same question. My answer is yes. His OPS+ for his career is 122. Compare that to Elvis (89), Beltre (116), Gallo (116), Odor (89), Choo (122). Others historically for comparison are Rendon (126), Rolen (122), Schmidt (142)

Now, I'm not all in on new analytics but this number is supposed to show where they stack up against the rest of the league and takes out factors like the ballpark they play in. 100 is league average. Also, before you say that he is tied with Choo, Choo was in the 140s and 150s before he came to Texas driving up his average career OPS+.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to Fuzzy Dunlop • 8:12a, 1/22/20
Fuzzy Dunlop said:
Proposition Joe said:
There's not many realistic scenarios in which he waives his opt out.

Waiving an opt-out to fast-track a trade from one team just to go to another team where you'd then be locked in for 7 years doesn't make a lot of sense.


Except that Arenado is pretty pissed at the CO front office right now. I know he likes the Cards but St Louis is saying they are done for this year. This would get JD some Goodwill with the fans after dropping the ball on Rendon. I'm doubtful it happens but I would love it if it does happen.

But again, if he's pissed at the front office of one team and "wants out", why would he waive a part of his contract that would remove him from having that option with the team he is traded to for the next 7 years?

The opt-out is an issue for Colorado, not Arenado. If Colorado wants to move him they'll just have to take less because of it.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to wbt5845 • 8:16a, 1/22/20
wbt5845 said:
While the opt-out scares me, it doesn't scare me too much. If he's worth more than 35 million after 2021, he's been an MVP a couple of seasons.

The risk in the opt-out isn't that he's worth more than $35m after 2021.

It's that he doesn't produce, doesn't opt-out, and is worth far less than $35m for an additional 5 years.

I'm not saying it would happen, but say Arenado comes here and simply puts up his road splits as his full-season #'s (850ish OPS). Suddenly that's a $20m player you're paying double the price on for 7 years.
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wbt5845
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 9:38a, 1/22/20
AG
Proposition Joe said:
wbt5845 said:
While the opt-out scares me, it doesn't scare me too much. If he's worth more than 35 million after 2021, he's been an MVP a couple of seasons.

The risk in the opt-out isn't that he's worth more than $35m after 2021.

It's that he doesn't produce, doesn't opt-out, and is worth far less than $35m for an additional 5 years.

I'm not saying it would happen, but say Arenado comes here and simply puts up his road splits as his full-season #'s (850ish OPS). Suddenly that's a $20m player you're paying double the price on for 7 years.
That's reading tea leaves - remember when Elvis was thought to be nowhere near what he was being paid - then the market shifted and we were afraid he'd opt out - and then the market shifted again and he ended up staying because it was just about right?

$35 MM is a LOT of money - money that's not mine. This is where JD earns his keep - these calls are tough. I am personally fond of our young talent, but Arenado is the real deal right now and not something we hope he'll be. My hope is his relationship with Colorado deteriorates to the point where the Rockies will accept less to just move him.
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wbt5845
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9:41a, 1/22/20
AG
BTW - on a related note - I'm always amazed at these players who back up the armored truck to their club to clean them out and then get all puffy that the club doesn't have the money to build a contender around them.

Really? YOU'RE the reason they don't have the money. Just be a man like Mike Trout, take your money and go home.
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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In reply to wbt5845 • 10:01a, 1/22/20
AG
wbt5845 said:
BTW - on a related note - I'm always amazed at these players who back up the armored truck to their club to clean them out and then get all puffy that the club doesn't have the money to build a contender around them.

Really? YOU'RE the reason they don't have the money. Just be a man like Mike Trout, take your money and go home.


We also don't know what the Rockies promised him during negotiations. They have added nothing this off-season after finishing 20 games under .500 last season. It could be because most of their pitchers missed time due to injuries. Maybe they think they'll be ok this year and he doesn't see it.

I agree with you mostly, it doesn't look good on Arenado. But, it also doesn't look like Colorado is doing much to put a team around him.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to wbt5845 • 10:44a, 1/22/20
Well of course it's reading tea-leaves, we have no idea how these players will produce and the existence of an opt-out makes that question even more significant.

Imagine if we had the ability to jettison the Choo contract after his 2nd year... we'd probably have Rendon starting at 3B this year.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to hawk1689 • 10:47a, 1/22/20
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Schall 02
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3:02p, 1/22/20
AG
I'll say this (obviously): Arenado opens a window for the Rangers that I don't see opening for a couple years. Worth the risk? Maybe. But they are just prospects.
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Rossko
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6:44p, 1/23/20
AG
Any thoughts on whether this is just an MLB authentication sticker or Chirinos was a part of the buzzers? If he was in on it, harder to root for him this time around.

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Quincey P. Morris
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In reply to Rossko • 7:09p, 1/23/20
AG
Rossko said:
Any thoughts on whether this is just an MLB authentication sticker or Chirinos was a part of the buzzers? If he was in on it, harder to root for him this time around.



I'm gonna call it unlikely that you'd put something like that on the end of the bat and that if some device flew off in front of the umpire and opposing catcher they'd just ignore it.
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DallasAg 94
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11:47p, 1/23/20
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wbt5845
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3:52a, 1/24/20
AG
Willie Calhoun said it best in today's FWST:
Quote:
"People were losing jobs because of the Astros. They were taking money off their plate."
One can post pics all day long of guys hoisting trophies and yell WORTH IT and make oneself feel better. But the silent victims are the guys who lost their jobs - got sent down - got too old - because their overall numbers - including numbers against the Astros - were bad.

Very much like the quiet victims in the PED era were the guys who played clean who didn't get the chance - guys lost their jobs because of what the Astros did. Houses were lost and children will have more trouble going to college because of what the Astros did. Scream WORTH IT all you like - but if you look at the big picture and still scream that, you're a pretty terrible human being.
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Grapesoda2525
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 6:34a, 1/24/20
DallasAg 94 said:
Like PEDs in the '90s.

Anyone who played for the Astros the past 3 years is guilty by association. He was only on the team in 2019, and I don't know the extent they cheated.

Whether they participated in the cheating or not in 2017... if you got a WS ring... you benefited.

Whether or not you took direct advantage of the cheating in 2018... you benefited if the player before you got on base because of the cheating and you benefited if you were on base and the hitter knocked you in, because of cheating.
Should I be mildly concerned?


Beltran is as dirty as they come and unfortunately, the rangers briefly traded for him.
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Rossko
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In reply to Grapesoda2525 • 7:42a, 1/24/20
AG
Grapesoda2525 said:
DallasAg 94 said:
Like PEDs in the '90s.

Anyone who played for the Astros the past 3 years is guilty by association. He was only on the team in 2019, and I don't know the extent they cheated.

Whether they participated in the cheating or not in 2017... if you got a WS ring... you benefited.

Whether or not you took direct advantage of the cheating in 2018... you benefited if the player before you got on base because of the cheating and you benefited if you were on base and the hitter knocked you in, because of cheating.
Should I be mildly concerned?


Beltran is as dirty as they come and unfortunately, the rangers briefly traded for him.
I could be wrong, but I don't see Bannister or Woodward as the types to allow that shadiness to happen. Hinch has always had that feel of someone to dislike in my opinion. Too bad they didn't let Bannister knock him out.
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Mr Gigem
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10:15p, 1/24/20
AG
Word I've received is Arenado is off the trade block mid-season trade deadline
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wbt5845
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In reply to Mr Gigem • 6:49a, 1/25/20
AG
AccidentProne said:
Word I've received is Arenado is off the trade block mid-season trade deadline
This doesn't surprise me at all. Rockies have been asking for the world and suitors are all like "for maybe two years? Naw.."
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AggieDPT
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11:34a, 1/25/20
AG
Rockies had a terrible record last year and have done nothing to improve the team. They'll get off to a terrible start this year and Nolan will want out.
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Quincey P. Morris
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In reply to AggieDPT • 12:32p, 1/25/20
AG
Yep. Wouldn't shock me if he's back on the block even before the deadline.
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Quincey P. Morris
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9:57a, 1/27/20
AG
Castellanos to the Reds.
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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10:24a, 1/27/20
AG
The Reds may just win the NL Central this year. They have made some good moves and have some good, young talent in their system. The rest of the Central pretty much held where they were.
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Grapesoda2525
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In reply to Quincey P. Morris • 11:25a, 1/27/20
Ranger #007 said:
Castellanos to the Reds.
It's disappointing........

I guess the plan really is to send Guzman and odor out there 150+ games.


Good luck with that I guess.

This offseason gets a D-

Rotation has been upgraded, but the infield which is the weakness of our team, isn't any better at all. The outfield is arguably weaker because pence is gone.

The offense will probably be just as bad this year or worse.
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Proposition Joe
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12:40p, 1/27/20
Yeah so much for "playing at the top of the FA market".

Woof.
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DallasAg 94
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12:41p, 1/27/20
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Proposition Joe
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12:55p, 1/27/20
You so often do these stat dumps but don't actually analyze them with any kind of effectiveness... It's quite odd.

Quote:
The Rangers scored 810 R, in 2019... 6th in the AL.
Quote:


Gallo will be back.
Chirinos replaces Mathis (17R in 86 G).
Mazara is gone (69R in 116G)
Cabrera gone (45R in 93G)

The O will be better, if only adding Gallo. Also, most of the players are "young:" Odor (25), Solak (24), Guzman (24), Gallo (25), Calhoun (24).

You aren't "adding Gallo" to a team that is 6th in the AL Runs scored. Gallo played 70 games last year, his numbers largely make up that ranking.

Post-ASB the Rangers were 11th in runs scored, near bottom of the league. You're "adding Gallo" to that.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 1:16p, 1/27/20
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Mr Gigem
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In reply to Grapesoda2525 • 3:42p, 1/27/20
AG
Grapesoda2525 said:
Ranger #007 said:
Castellanos to the Reds.
It's disappointing........

I guess the plan really is to send Guzman and odor out there 150+ games.


Good luck with that I guess.

This offseason gets a D-

Rotation has been upgraded, but the infield which is the weakness of our team, isn't any better at all. The outfield is arguably weaker because pence is gone.

The offense will probably be just as bad this year or worse.
So the Rangers added 3 SPs to the rotation and have now what some are calling a top 5 rotation in all of baseball, but the offseason gets a D-??

Okay
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