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Houston knew they were sending bags of dog crap to Detroit and Pittsburgh

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Isn't this more on the other teams to do their homework before making a trade? But yeah, if a team gets a rep for trading damaged goods it'll catch up with them eventually.

Don't disagree with most of your post but I'm pretty sure Martin was one of the pieces traded for Grienke.

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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Don't disagree with most of your post but I'm pretty sure Martin was one of the pieces traded for Grienke.

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Doh! You are correct, he is with the DBacks now. I missed that.

https://www.mlb.com/player/corbin-martin-656686

South Platte said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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South Platte said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Houston's model was to tank - COMPLETELY tank - and sell off all their decent major league pitchers. Then basically play your AAA club at the MLB level. Then as they matured, go ahead and sign a few key FAs to round it out. Worked great.

Problem with that model - all the arbitration and new FAs are coming due at the same time. I know they paid Altuve and Bregman - who else have they gotten signed?

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The tanking helped only so much. They totally whiffed on Appel and Aiken. Give Luhnow a ton of credit for evaluating talent and signing the right players.

One could argue that outside of Correa, who is the least important player of their core, they unnecessarily lost games and could have built what they had with 70-win seasons. Altuve and Springer were drafted before they started tanking. They got Bregman only because Luhnow screwed up the Aiken pick, couldn't sign him, and got a compensation pick the following year. You have to be good and lucky to build what they have.

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There's no doubt you can tank and still miss... There was absolutely not guarantee what they were doing would get them a championship caliber team.

But if you look at the contributors on the 2017 championship team, the difference was absolutely the players they gained from the tankjob (whether producing on the field or packaged in trades for productive players).

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I don't know why anybody would trade with Houston. Detroit and Pittsburgh got taken for a ride on those two trades, too early to tell on the Grienke trade. All these expert "farm team rankings" are total garbage. I'd just let that phone call go to voicemail if I'm the GM at any other MLB team. If a team offers X minor league players but says that Y players are off the block, don't accept the X players. Houston knew they were sending bags of dog crap to Detroit and Pittsburgh.

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Kinda makes me wonder about our own front offices reputation.

We've tried and failed for several years in a row to make big moves at the trade deadline. The Darvish trade is the only notable deadline deal in recent memory.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Realistically, this is likely their last year.

They have $156M committed to 8 players for 2020, and $119M committed for 2021.

Signed:
Greinke (36-SP): $35M, $35M
Verlander (36-SP): $33M, $33M
Altuve: $29.2M, $29.2M
Brantley (32-LF): $16M, FA
Bregman: $13M, $13M
Reddick (32-OF): $13M
Pressley (30): $8.7M, $8.7M
Gurriel (35-1B): $8.4M, FA

Arbs:
Diaz: A1, A2 <- $2M in 2019
Correa: A2, A3 <- $5M in 2019
Osuna: A2, A3: 66G, 2.63 ERA, 0.88 WHIP, 38 Sv, <- $6.5M in 2019
Osuna: $300K charity giving for 1 battered baby-momma
Springer (30-OF): A4, FA <- $12M in 2019
Peacock: A4, FA <- $3M in 2019
So, that is $28.5M + $300K in 2019 salaries, up for Arb in 2020.

$186M, with the following FAs to replace:

FAs:
Cole (SP): 33GS, 2.50 ERA, 0.89 WHIP
Miley (SP): 33GS, 3.98 ERA, 1.34 WHIP

Chirinos (35-C): 114G, .238, 17 HR
Harris (35-RP): 68G, 1.50 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, 26H
Maldonado (33-C)
McHugh
Rondon (31-RP): 62G, 3.71 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 19H
Smith

Their 2019 WS hinges on Greinke who, in 3GS this post-season has a 6.43 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP. Yikes.

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I just realized. Do you know what really sucks?

We might be fighting the Astros for a free agent catcher this offseason AGAIN. That has typically not gone well. I know we both wanted Brian McCann and he ended up with the Astros. We let Chirinos go for nothing. I was hoping we would make a run at yasmani grandal, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Astros are in on it.

KT 90 said:

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Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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Don't disagree with most of your post but I'm pretty sure Martin was one of the pieces traded for Grienke.

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Doh! You are correct, he is with the DBacks now. I missed that.

https://www.mlb.com/player/corbin-martin-656686

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Probably the only reason I remember that is that I was glad Martin was no longer with the Astros. It's selfish because Martin is a lifelong Astros fan but, oh well.

Proposition Joe said:

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South Platte said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Houston's model was to tank - COMPLETELY tank - and sell off all their decent major league pitchers. Then basically play your AAA club at the MLB level. Then as they matured, go ahead and sign a few key FAs to round it out. Worked great.

Problem with that model - all the arbitration and new FAs are coming due at the same time. I know they paid Altuve and Bregman - who else have they gotten signed?

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The tanking helped only so much. They totally whiffed on Appel and Aiken. Give Luhnow a ton of credit for evaluating talent and signing the right players.

One could argue that outside of Correa, who is the least important player of their core, they unnecessarily lost games and could have built what they had with 70-win seasons. Altuve and Springer were drafted before they started tanking. They got Bregman only because Luhnow screwed up the Aiken pick, couldn't sign him, and got a compensation pick the following year. You have to be good and lucky to build what they have.

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There's no doubt you can tank and still miss... There was absolutely not guarantee what they were doing would get them a championship caliber team.

But if you look at the contributors on the 2017 championship team, the difference was absolutely the players they gained from the tankjob (whether producing on the field or packaged in trades for productive players).

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The Marlins tanked twice, and ended up winning 2 titles. The Astros tanked, and they won a title (still in contention for another one). Yeah, it stinks to see that strategy get rewarded, but Houston wasn't even on t.v. in Houston for several years. The only time you could see them was when they played the Rangers. If Darvish doesn't pitch game 7 or if Nellie catches the ball or Berkman doesn't bloop a single or MLB doesn't invent a fake day off for weather, the entire conversation is totally different.

It's like the way that Bill Self became an elite coach when Derrick Rose missed 2 FT's and Mario Chalmers nailed a buzzer beater 3, or Dean Smith became a great coach when Georgetown threw the ball to the wrong team, or Guy Lewis wasn't a great coach because Eric Whittenberg shot an airball...

I'll never get over 2011 either, but it was way better than having an unwatchable team with no tv affiliate for 3+ seasons. No true baseball fan should put up with that. Houston got away with it, though, and they should just enjoy the ride. They are one Cole departure and one Correa injury away from selling Verlander and/or Greinke to the Yankees next summer.

DallasAg 94 said:

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KT 90 said:

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Realistically, this is likely their last year.

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They will still be good next year, how good probably depends on health of pitchers returning from injury: McCullers and Corbin Martin. but they will likely win the AL West again next year. After that, depends on how their young talent in the minors currently does at the MLB level (always a crapshoot) Obviously they can't re-sign all of their current players, they'll let Correa walk most likely, but they'll have more players looking to cash in and you can't sign them all.

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I believe McCullers had TJ in July 2019.

Corbin Martin is in the DBacks organization (Greinke)

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McCullers already missed all of 2019, so I am assuming he'll be ready to go for 2020. I missed the C. Martin departure.. that's good . Houston is going to need Whitley to be ready for the mlb soon, or they may be looking to bring someone in.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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I just realized. Do you know what really sucks?

We might be fighting the Astros for a free agent catcher this offseason AGAIN. That has typically not gone well. I know we both wanted Brian McCann and he ended up with the Astros. We let Chirinos go for nothing. I was hoping we would make a run at yasmani grandal, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Astros are in on it.

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I don't think the Rangers look for a C. Mathis is under contract and by all accounts, his value isn't the O, but everything else. Trevino and Huff are likely our 2nd and 3rd.

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agreed here. I don't see the Rangers spending on a free agent catcher. For 2020 it'll be Trevino and Mathis. Huff has great potential, but I doubt he is ready in 2020. Maybe by 2021 it'll be Trevino and Huff.

Ouch.

The Stories That the Houston Astros Have Told | The New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/the-stories-that-the-houston-astros-have-told

Choo had surgery, so his diminished trade value took another hit: LINK


[url=https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/10/shin-shoo-choo-shoulder-surgery-rangers.html][/url]Rangers DH Shin-Soo Choo undergoes shoulder surgery
[url=https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/10/shin-shoo-choo-shoulder-surgery-rangers.html][/url]
Originally posted on MLB Trade Rumors | By Steve Adams | Last updated 10/25/19

Rangers designated hitter Shin-Soo Choo revealed in an appearance on a talk show in his native South Korea that he underwent a minor surgery on his left shoulder (hat tip: Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News). Choo was wearing a sling during the appearance but said the procedure came with a rough recovery timeline of six to eight weeks. That should put him on track for a normal Spring Training, barring any setbacks.

Now 37 years old, Choo has spent the past six seasons with the Rangers after signing a seven-year, $130M deal as a free agent in the 2013-14 offseason. He's had three solid years and three forgettable ones thus far into that lengthy pact, with each of his two most recent seasons standing out as a productive efforts.

Dating back to Opening Day 2018, Choo has batted a combined .264/.374/.444 with 45 home runs, 61 doubles and three triples. He's played in 297 games and tallied 1325 plate appearances across those two seasons while serving as the club's primary designated hitter.

Choo is owed $21M in 2020 the final season of his current contract. Texas has explored trading him in the past and could look to trade a left-handed-hitting outfielder this winter, though Choo's contract, lack of defensive value and this surgery won't make him easy to move.

Choo did log 668 innings in the outfield this year but was rated poorly by Defensive Runs Saved (-16), Ultimate Zone Rating (-9.0) and Outs Above Average (-12).

Meanwhile, most American League clubs already have a set DH or multiple players they plan to rotate through that DH slot and other positions, making it even more difficult to see Choo being moved.[url=https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mazarno01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-][/url]

Nomar Mazara, on the other hand, could be a more plausible candidate to change hands with Texas likely to commit two outfield spots to fellow lefty hitters Willie Calhoun and Joey Gallo.

The Rangers should sign Cabrera (2B) and Rendon in the off season. Let Odor ride the pine and learn how to hit.

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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The Rangers should sign Cabrera (2B) and Rendon in the off season. Let Odor ride the pine and learn how to hit.

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But but

He does everything we ask. He has such a great attitude. The club house loves him. He's a natural leader.

The rangers PR team really had their hands full with all the BS they had to sell ranger fans about odor the last few years.

Went to Baseball Refernce to check and sure enough, Cabrera only played 3B with Texas. He had 7 errors in 248 chances. He has primarily played 2B (he played 3B some too) with Washington and has 0 errors in 111 chances. Why didn't we ever see him at 2nd? It boggles me how we trot Odor out there almost everyday and don't give anyone else a shot. It's got to be JD's call. Right?

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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Went to Baseball Refernce to check and sure enough, Cabrera only played 3B with Texas. He had 7 errors in 248 chances. He has primarily played 2B (he played 3B some too) with Washington and has 0 errors in 111 chances. Why didn't we ever see him at 2nd? It boggles me how we trot Odor out there almost everyday and don't give anyone else a shot. It's got to be JD's call. Right?

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It's happened for 4 years straight now regardless of who is managing.

I think it is a front office problem.

So are we going to kick Josh Hamilton out of the Rangers hall of fame now?

We all know she's bat **** crazy, so I wouldn't be surprised. But something definitely happened. Would be really hard to make all of this up from scratch.

Here's the story for those that haven't seen it

https://www.barstoolsports.com/baseball/josh-hamilton-arrested-on-a-felony-charge-of-injury-to-a-child

So sad for all involved

The most horrific choke job of managing I've ever seen.

My gosh I'd love to sign Rendon so he could see his new friends in Houston 19 times per year.

DannyDuberstein said:

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The most horrific choke job of managing I've ever seen.

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That move to Harris...just didn't make sense. It reminded me of 2011. You can't just send the same guys out game after game. It almost always gets you by game 7. I still think about having no confidence in Uehara, and what it meant.