*** STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI ***

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VanZandt92
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In reply to Buck Compton • 12:46p, 12/16/17
Buck Compton said:
VanZandt92 said:
There was cheering and applause at my show. I clapped a little. The thing is though, my expectations are so low now that this was only a mild disappoinment.
You've been so ridiculous on this entire thing. I think due to your age, your expectations are just a bit out of whack in the beginning. It wasn't a 10, but it wasn't the abomination you're pretending it is.

I'm still processing, but will post full thoughts on the other thread.


Unlike everybody else, I just thought Force Awakens and Rogue One were ok. They weren't over the top satisfying for me. I don't even remember why. So I didn't really think the original mojo could be recreated, yet I heard the initial reviews from The Ticket in Dallas and heard "level of ESB". So in my case, 30 minutes in I was still all in and thoroughly enjoying it, but the last half I guess I realized that no, it wasn't going to take us there.

The movie seemed to lead into many subplots, but didn't take them far. Many characters seemed like they might be developed and pivotal, but it was just an ensemble.
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redline248
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12:53a, 12/18/17
AG
I liked the movie, but not as much as TFA. It was a little disappointing. Not the expectation I had for Luke.


I hated every single minute on the casino planet.
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Cromagnum
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6:01a, 12/18/17
AG
Had to update my own rankings.


1. ESB
2. ANH
3. RotJ
4. Rogue One
5. RotS
6. TFA
7. TLJ
8. TPM
9. AotC
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Sapper Redux
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7:04a, 12/18/17
Guess I'm in the minority that I'm a Star Wars fan who thought it was brilliant
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BassCowboy33
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7:19a, 12/18/17
Easily my least favorite Stars Wars film.

Things that worked:

1. Anything involving Adam Driver
2. Porgs
3. The sexual tension between Rey and Ren.

Things that didn't work:

1. Dialogue. Some of the worst writing you'll ever see. If you felt that TFA gave Finn terrible dialogue, it only gets worse.
2. There is a space sequence that ranks among the most laughable moments I've ever seen on film.
3. Holdo and Rose are the two of the most useless characters. They serve a ridiculous sideplot, the elimination of which would've shortened the film by 45 minutes and made the film better. Rose is especially cringeworthy. She and Finn have the second dumbest scene of the film towards the end. It's a huge WTF?! moment.
4. The film hits the climax midway through. Entire plot points from the previous film are eliminated and tossed aside. The film has no clear direction.

There are several more negatives, but I'm not the spoilerz type. I'm not a big Star Wars fan boy, but I really wanted to like this.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 7:25a, 12/18/17
AG
Dr. Watson said:
Guess I'm in the minority that I'm a Star Wars fan who thought it was brilliant

No there are lots of us.

Funny to me that after TFA nothing but clamoring for something new and different. Then something new and different gets made and its "ugh....I like TFA better".

I think expectations play into things. I try not to get too worked up. It is someone else's movie and mine only to enjoy or not. But I don't have built in expectations. So for example Snokes back story and the KoR and Reys parentage while I was curious were not things I had to have or know. I think if you did then you are disappointed. But it was highly enjoyable and entertaining, even with a few quibbles and at least one solid plot derail, so I had a great viewing experience and a positive view of it.

I think it will have better longevity than TFA did, not meaning box office necessarily, but meaning TFA while I loved it initially it a. pandered too many times with tributes and b. was a completely retreaded plot. Because I had not experienced even "good" star wars since 1983 it felt great on first viewing but over time it waned and I liked it less and less.

This one is a bit jarring because it is so different, although it has a few crowd pleasing moments as well, but I think longterm the originality will serve it well. Once people get over their shock of expectations.

And several things were just downright amazing
  • the performances especially Rey and Kylo, but also Luke and Leia
  • the music and sound was incredible
  • the space action sequences were mostly brilliant - especially the light speed torpedo of course
  • some of the surprising little plot twists were done well

I think it suffered from being the middle story of course, but it set up for an amazing Ep. IX that could go any direction. We have no idea.
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jr15aggie
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 7:26a, 12/18/17
AG
Dr. Watson said:
Guess I'm in the minority that I'm a Star Wars fan who thought it was brilliant


I liked it. Was upset about certain spoiler things first viewing, but I got over it and really enjoyed the movie 2nd viewing.

The strong points in the movie are REALLY strong IMO.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to jr15aggie • 7:34a, 12/18/17
jr15aggie said:
Dr. Watson said:
Guess I'm in the minority that I'm a Star Wars fan who thought it was brilliant


I liked it. Was upset about certain spoiler things first viewing, but I got over it and really enjoyed the movie 2nd viewing.

The strong points in the movie are REALLY strong IMO.


I think you can also make the argument that the weak parts are REALLY weak.
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Noblemen06
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7:36a, 12/18/17
AG
This movie definitely is better on second viewing. I realized that I missed a lot on the first viewing that I caught onto the second time around.

What I took away from the second time around that changed my perception for the better:

- Yoda's chat with Luke really lays out the whole theme of the movie (and maybe this trilogy): the new generation has to learn from their failures...masters can't teach them everything. Paraphrased: what the master teaches, coupled with what they learn from failure, makes the student better than the master eventually.

- I think we're getting into a new type of Jedi with Rey based on Yoda and Luke's dialogue. Yoda said that nothing in the Jedi texts would reveal to Rey anything that wasn't already inside of her. I took this as an explanation of how she's such a powerful force user with minimal training. That comment coupled with Luke's speech to Rey about the nature of the force allowed for a new interpretation of force users not having to fit in a box. I ultimately don't mind that minor alteration from the world-building we had through the original trilogy and prequels.

- The trip to the casino served more of a purpose than I originally thought - Finn was about to serve in his own interests (only loyalty was to Rey) before he was stunned; the casino scene and subsequent talk with del Toro's character gave him a greater sense of purpose than he had before. He saw why the resistance mattered and he solidified his belief that he should choose a side (unlike del Toro's character)

- Kylo Ren came into his own in the dark side - he was manipulating Rey the whole time and really seduced her to potentially turn. She bought into his feint right up to the point that he was willing to let the resistance be obliterated after Snoke was killed. I think they have the ability to make him surpass Darth Vader as the ultimate Star Wars bad guy in the third act if they can show he has no redemption/conflict in him in the third act and is pure dark side evil (what Luke saw in him...and why he knew it wouldn't end how Rey thought). His character improved the most since TFA and Driver really nailed it.

- Luke was served better than I originally thought, too. Yes, it would have been spectacular to see him obliterate the First Order "armada" there, but I think that wouldn't have served much more of a purpose than spectacle...he really demonstrated immense power in force projecting himself to Leia and Kylo and that sequence pushed the story forward. Kylo is solidified as evil and the resistance lives on. I also have little doubt he's going to play an important role in the next movie. Again, his conversation with Yoda is key...and I think captures the whole point of this trilogy.

- I really didn't appreciate how fantastic the visuals and soundtrack were the first go around. Both were really phenomenal.

- It wasn't as humorous as I remembered...meaning I think the humor was timed well and added levity in the right doses, not overkill.

What didn't get any better:
- Phasma the throwaway character...obviously meant to sell toys and be some enduring (but unnecessary) foil to Finn. Only redeeming quality to Phasma showing up again is that her sequence set up BB-8 kicking ass with the AT-ST.

- Maz' "cameo"...I saw on this board that moment being likened to the queue of a rollercoaster that sets the scene for the ride - SPOT ON.

- Force user Leia. So much convenience in the moment to keep her alive...so why couldn't she lift the rocks to get them out of the cave if she can save her own skin in space? If she's got that much of a grasp of the force, it should have manifested in other ways, IMO.

- Chase scene out of the casino. Seemed like something straight out of the prequels and a minute too long.
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Phat32
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7:51a, 12/18/17
AG
Hated it. Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I had zero expectations and was still let down.

Have a hard time getting over Adam Driver (due to Girls) and the entire plot of the movie revolves around a ship about to run out of gas.

It couldn't decide if it wanted to be serious or a comedy. Stupid.
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Noblemen06
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In reply to Noblemen06 • 8:08a, 12/18/17
AG
Noblemen06 said:
- Kylo Ren came into his own in the dark side - he was manipulating Rey the whole time and really seduced her to potentially turn. She bought into his feint right up to the point that he was willing to let the resistance be obliterated after Snoke was killed. I think they have the ability to make him surpass Darth Vader as the ultimate Star Wars bad guy in the third act if they can show he has no redemption/conflict in him in the third act and is pure dark side evil (what Luke saw in him...and why he knew it wouldn't end how Rey thought). His character improved the most since TFA and Driver really nailed it.
When I think about it more, Kylo really is way darker and evil than we gave him credit for in TFA. He uses people's weakness in hoping he'll turn back away from the dark side to get what he wants. The same manipulation he demonstrated with Rey in TLJ he used on Han Solo in TFA. He hated his dad and used Han's hope that he can get his son back to put him in position to kill him. He used Rey's hope that she could turn him from the dark side and bring him to the resistance's cause in order to get close enough to potentially turn her. The only ***** in his armor was not blowing Leia away but I'll chalk that up to him being a mama's boy.

Kylo has demonstrated that he is way more evil than Vader already, IMO. I'm looking forward to him going all out in the last episode of this trilogy, now that all his cards are on the table.
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Noblemen06
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8:10a, 12/18/17
AG
Gracious..."ch_nk" in his armor is blocked...gotta be kidding me.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Noblemen06 • 8:12a, 12/18/17
AG
I think he was legitimately conflicted, and Snoke confirmed as much when he said we has "unbalanced" after killing Han, bested by a girl who'd never held a lightsaber, etc. And I believe the novelization mentions him feeling weaker after doing it.
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GiveEmHellBill
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In reply to redline248 • 8:20a, 12/18/17
AG
redline248 said:
I liked the movie, but not as much as TFA. It was a little disappointing. Not the expectation I had for Luke.


I hated every single minute on the casino planet.
Yep. The more and more I think about the film, the more I really dislike that entire sequence from start to finish.

If someone could do a "Phantom Edit" and remove all of that, I think the movie would be much better.
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Noblemen06
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 8:22a, 12/18/17
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I think he was legitimately conflicted, and Snoke confirmed as much when he said we has "unbalanced" after killing Han, bested by a girl who'd never held a lightsaber, etc. And I believe the novelization mentions him feeling weaker after doing it.
Agreed but I think he used both Han and Rey all the same...for his own pursuit of being stronger (strongest) in the dark side. I think his actions (and Luke's description of how he "failed" Ben Solo...that he was already deep into the dark side) show how much he was committed...and he was never going to be flipped like Vader was.

I'll be supremely disappointed if they redeem him in the next one, given how they've developed the character. Make him the ultimate bad guy, end the Skywalker bloodline being the centerpiece of the main storyline, and pass the torch to Rey/whoever else comes next (which I think is the whole point of this trilogy, really).
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wangus12
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In reply to Phat32 • 8:24a, 12/18/17
AG
Quote:
Have a hard time getting over Adam Driver (due to Girls)
That is your own fault for watching that craptastic show. Your opinions no longer matter
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Noblemen06 • 8:26a, 12/18/17
Noblemen06 said:
Noblemen06 said:
- Kylo Ren came into his own in the dark side - he was manipulating Rey the whole time and really seduced her to potentially turn. She bought into his feint right up to the point that he was willing to let the resistance be obliterated after Snoke was killed. I think they have the ability to make him surpass Darth Vader as the ultimate Star Wars bad guy in the third act if they can show he has no redemption/conflict in him in the third act and is pure dark side evil (what Luke saw in him...and why he knew it wouldn't end how Rey thought). His character improved the most since TFA and Driver really nailed it.
When I think about it more, Kylo really is way darker and evil than we gave him credit for in TFA. He uses people's weakness in hoping he'll turn back away from the dark side to get what he wants. The same manipulation he demonstrated with Rey in TLJ he used on Han Solo in TFA. He hated his dad and used Han's hope that he can get his son back to put him in position to kill him. He used Rey's hope that she could turn him from the dark side and bring him to the resistance's cause in order to get close enough to potentially turn her. The only ***** in his armor was not blowing Leia away but I'll chalk that up to him being a mama's boy.

Kylo has demonstrated that he is way more evil than Vader already, IMO. I'm looking forward to him going all out in the last episode of this trilogy, now that all his cards are on the table.


You have to wonder if he appeared to hesitate firing on Leia in order to screw with Snoke. Maybe not, but he played his master like a fiddle.
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AgMarauder04
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 8:28a, 12/18/17
AG
Dr. Watson said:
Noblemen06 said:
Noblemen06 said:
- Kylo Ren came into his own in the dark side - he was manipulating Rey the whole time and really seduced her to potentially turn. She bought into his feint right up to the point that he was willing to let the resistance be obliterated after Snoke was killed. I think they have the ability to make him surpass Darth Vader as the ultimate Star Wars bad guy in the third act if they can show he has no redemption/conflict in him in the third act and is pure dark side evil (what Luke saw in him...and why he knew it wouldn't end how Rey thought). His character improved the most since TFA and Driver really nailed it.
When I think about it more, Kylo really is way darker and evil than we gave him credit for in TFA. He uses people's weakness in hoping he'll turn back away from the dark side to get what he wants. The same manipulation he demonstrated with Rey in TLJ he used on Han Solo in TFA. He hated his dad and used Han's hope that he can get his son back to put him in position to kill him. He used Rey's hope that she could turn him from the dark side and bring him to the resistance's cause in order to get close enough to potentially turn her. The only ***** in his armor was not blowing Leia away but I'll chalk that up to him being a mama's boy.

Kylo has demonstrated that he is way more evil than Vader already, IMO. I'm looking forward to him going all out in the last episode of this trilogy, now that all his cards are on the table.


You have to wonder if he appeared to hesitate firing on Leia in order to screw with Snoke. Maybe not, but he played his master like a fiddle.

I'm surprised he tried to turn Rey. It looks like he is power hungry, a la killing Snoke. Gathering a powerful dark side ally always has the potential for them to turn on the "master" later on.
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The Collective
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8:28a, 12/18/17
AG
I'm going to need an official explanation to Leia flying in space. Hope it is covered in the novelization or someone like Pablo Hidalgo takes the time to defend that ***** It'd be interesting if the force intervened (insert "that's not how the force works" here) on her behalf, and it wasn't actually her using the force.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to The Collective • 8:30a, 12/18/17
CJS4715 said:
I'm going to need an official explanation to Leia flying in space. Hope it is covered in the novelization or someone like Pablo Hidalgo takes the time to defend that ***** It'd be interesting if the force intervened (insert "that's not how the force works" here) on her behalf, and it wasn't actually her using the force.


The crowd in my theater laughed at this sequence, and not in a good way. One of the most ridiculous scenes in any movie I've ever seen.
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Phat32
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In reply to wangus12 • 8:30a, 12/18/17
AG
wangus12 said:
Quote:
Have a hard time getting over Adam Driver (due to Girls)
That is your own fault for watching that craptastic show. Your opinions no longer matter


True but the rib has it on constantly so it's unavoidable. Maybe I should blame her instead of Rian.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to The Collective • 8:31a, 12/18/17
CJS4715 said:
I'm going to need an official explanation to Leia flying in space. Hope it is covered in the novelization or someone like Pablo Hidalgo takes the time to defend that ***** It'd be interesting if the force intervened (insert "that's not how the force works" here) on her behalf, and it wasn't actually her using the force.


I don't think she was consciously using it. Lots of characters benefit from the Force without being aware they are doing it (Poe is probably very Force sensitive). She is the child of Anakin Skywalker. The idea that she could do something big with the Force with minimal training isn't crazy.



I hated that scene, for what it's worth.
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AgMarauder04
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 8:32a, 12/18/17
AG
So did most people.
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redline248
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In reply to The Collective • 8:33a, 12/18/17
AG
When it comes to the force, the explanation is pretty much "anything is possible." If Luke can do what he did (which by the way is basically taken from a 2008 Legacy of the Force book called Invincible), then she can do what she did.

The problem is we have to assume that Luke took the time to teach her something about feeling/using the force and that her being a Skywalker is enough to give her that type of control. After all, the power of a Death Star is insignificant next to the Force. (to paraprhase)
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BassCowboy33
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8:34a, 12/18/17
During the scene in which Finn tries to sacrifice himself by flying into the weapon, I couldn't help but think it was a frame-for-frame copy of Independence Day. I half expected him to scream, "Hello, boys! I'm baaaaaack!!"
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to AgMarauder04 • 8:35a, 12/18/17
AgMarauder04 said:
So did most people.


It was pretty bad.
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The Collective
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 8:37a, 12/18/17
AG
BassCowboy33 said:
I half expected him to scream, "Hello, boys! I'm baaaaaack!!"
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AGGies0311
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8:39a, 12/18/17
That battering ram makes no sense.. The first order spent millions on a machine thats sole objective was to blast through walls..... the battering ram? Who approved that expense?
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The Collective
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In reply to AGGies0311 • 8:40a, 12/18/17
AG
AGGies0311 said:
That battering ram makes no sense.. The first order spent millions on a machine thats sole objective was to blast through walls..... the battering ram? Who approved that expense?


Bureaucrats.
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redline248
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In reply to AGGies0311 • 8:41a, 12/18/17
AG
You know what else doesn't make sense? Falling in love with someone you've known less than 12 hours.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to AGGies0311 • 8:43a, 12/18/17
AGGies0311 said:
That battering ram makes no sense.. The first order spent millions on a machine thats sole objective was to blast through walls..... the battering ram? Who approved that expense?


And how come the weapon isn't ready to use when they arrive? You'd think that based on the recent past, they'd develop a weapon that didn't take 20 minutes to charge before using. It's all very, "My evil plan is working, but now let me explain my thought process in great detail before killing you!" levels of silly.
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wangus12
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In reply to redline248 • 8:44a, 12/18/17
AG
She's infatuated with someone she saw as a hero. Thats the only way I can somewhat explain it and its still stupid. Finn better run because she is gonna be a really controlling/stalker kind of girlfriend
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AGGies0311
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8:45a, 12/18/17
The more I cogitate on it the more I'm blown away by how stupid this film was... It took place over 12 hours.... Rey spent a day and a wake up on Luke's island..... now she's a Jedi .........
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redline248
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8:45a, 12/18/17
AG
The heat of the weapon melts down the skimmer's gun, but Finn - in an open cockpit - is totally unscathed 10 seconds later while flying closer to it.

There are multiple troopers on foot kind of escorting that giant weapon, and then when Rose and Finn crash, no one is around, and he drags her all the way back on foot?
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The Collective
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 8:46a, 12/18/17
AG
BassCowboy33 said:
And how come the weapon isn't ready to use when they arrive? You'd think that based on the recent past, they'd develop a weapon that didn't take 20 minutes to charge before using. It's all very, "My evil plan is working, but now let me explain my thought process in great detail before killing you!" levels of silly.


In 30 years, they'll make a spin-off film to fill in the gap on the First Order's weapon design flaw.
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