Batman vs. Superman

313,885 Views | 2333 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by Brian Earl Spilner
SeattleAgJr
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5:19p, 11/14/14
The problem here is:
1. We do not need ANOTHER Batman origin scene. He ahs been around for 70+ years. He has had 7+ movies. ERVERYONE is aware of his origins at this point. It can be argued that of all superheroes he is the one EVERYONE knows the origin to because of the Burton and Nolan films.
2. There is nothing new to add to the story. At all. Out for dinner/play whatever/ Come out. Attempted robber. Bang, bang. Wah, Wah; parents dead. Spooky bats. I will be a thing of vengeance. Blargh.
Coming within 4 years of the LAST Batman movie... JUST MOVE THE FRICK ON. Do not waste even 30 seconds on flashbacks. We just had Supes origin (again). We do not need Bats'. Just move the **** on. It is not like they are going to use a CGI modified Ben Affleck as young Bruce. Pointless. We want STORY. We want punching.
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TCTTS
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In reply to SeattleAgJr • 5:40p, 11/14/14
AG
quote:
The problem here is:
1. We do not need ANOTHER Batman origin scene. He ahs been around for 70+ years. He has had 7+ movies. ERVERYONE is aware of his origins at this point. It can be argued that of all superheroes he is the one EVERYONE knows the origin to because of the Burton and Nolan films.
2. There is nothing new to add to the story. At all. Out for dinner/play whatever/ Come out. Attempted robber. Bang, bang. Wah, Wah; parents dead. Spooky bats. I will be a thing of vengeance. Blargh.
Coming within 4 years of the LAST Batman movie... JUST MOVE THE FRICK ON. Do not waste even 30 seconds on flashbacks. We just had Supes origin (again). We do not need Bats'. Just move the **** on. It is not like they are going to use a CGI modified Ben Affleck as young Bruce. Pointless. We want STORY. We want punching.

For the umpteenth time... WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN ACTUAL SCENE.

If it is, then I totally agree with everything you're saying. But the more I, and others, have considered, it might actually just be a small blip in some larger opening credit sequence or something. And if so, then it's no big deal at all. Same if it's just a quick flash of a shot or two in between a raging Batman punching the hell out of some dude. If it's an entire scene, again, I'm right there with you. But if it's just like two or three quick shots flashed on screen - which, given the brief amount of time apparently spent filming the scene - is much more likely, I don't see the harm.
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SeattleAgJr
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6:48p, 11/14/14
We do know it is an actual sequence that has been shot. And in IMAX to boot. Shooting in IMAX is not something that is likely for an opening credits sequence.
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TCTTS
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In reply to SeattleAgJr • 7:01p, 11/14/14
AG
quote:
We do know it is an actual sequence that has been shot. And in IMAX to boot. Shooting in IMAX is not something that is likely for an opening credits sequence.

Literally no one other than the filmmakers knows whether or not it's an actual "sequence." A "sequence" has a few definitions, but it's usually a series of short scenes strung together, or a single scene spanning more than one location. Either way, we have NO IDEA how many shots they're using for this location. It could EASILY be only two or three shots, and if so, that's definitely not a "sequence," or even a scene. If it's only 10-20 seconds of footage (if even that), then all this b*tching will be for nothing. I could totally be wrong, but that's kind of point. No one knows. So there's no point in definitively *****ing about how this will ruin the movie. If it does end up being a whole five-minute ordeal right in the middle of the movie - which it very well could be - gripe about it then. That's all I'm saying.

And why wouldn't IMAX be used for opening credits? Again, if the credits are anything like Watchmen, Snyder's going to go all-out. Some kind of badass opening montage credit sequence in IMAX is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect him to do.
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israeliag
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8:21p, 11/14/14
AG
With the right script Snyder can do wonders (300, Watchmen). But, he does need to stay away from screenwriting (Sucker Punch). He's proven he will nail the visuals, and even can deliver on themes and philosophical motifs (Sucker Punch).

Sucker Punch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQm1rBqh53Y) is a great lesson on how Snyder can both make a good and terrible film at the same time. Surround him with a good screenwriter and producer and I don't see a reason to be so down on this film until reviews come out or you see it for yourself and come up with your own ideas.

TC, any knowledge to what extent Chris Nolan and Emma Thomas are still involved? Or Geoff Johns to that extent?
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TCTTS
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8:32p, 11/14/14
AG
^ Agreed.

No idea about Johns, but Nolan has said he's only an executive producer, which means he's basically doing nothing. He's not contributing in any creative way.
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israeliag
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8:43p, 11/14/14
AG
is there a Fiege for DC's film universe?
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Nonregdrummer09
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10:24p, 11/14/14
AG
I keep hearing Johns is supposed to be doing something but I have no idea what his role is. There is no "DC Studios" equivalent for him to President of, so I'm not sure exactly.
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AggieSouth06
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In reply to israeliag • 10:38p, 11/14/14
quote:
With the right script Snyder can do wonders (300, Watchmen).


Are those generally considered to be great movies? Because I thought both were pretty poor storytelling... All flash, no substance.
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israeliag
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In reply to AggieSouth06 • 10:52p, 11/14/14
AG
i thought Watchmen was incredible, and 300 did a great job in telling a very enjoyable film in a very direct way. It's all subjective though anyway.
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Nonregdrummer09
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10:54p, 11/14/14
AG
I will say Watchmen was pretty good, I guess, and it was a nearly panel for panel remake of the comic, but I think it's also proof that in terms of appealing comic books to a wide audience, sometimes doing a literal depiction of a comic on screen doesn't always work.

I think 300 was great entertainment, a much better of job of translating a graphic novel to film.

I don't like DC putting all their eggs in the Snyder basket though. One of the great things about Marvel is their choices of directors for different movies kind of giving each movie similar, and yet different tones and approaches.
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AliasMan02
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10:56p, 11/14/14
AG
If you asked Marvel, would they trade any of their currently working directors for Snyder? I doubt it.
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Nonregdrummer09
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10:57p, 11/14/14
AG
Not with Snyder's visuals no way.
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israeliag
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In reply to Nonregdrummer09 • 10:59p, 11/14/14
AG
Agreed, but do you want DC to be copying Marvel or setting (at least visually) a different tone?
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Nonregdrummer09
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11:03p, 11/14/14
AG
No, Marvel and DC have always been different, but I think Man of Steel was way off on tone and concept. While I like the Krypton politics and cultural stuff, the movie was sooooo dark for a Superman movie. And Superman's stories are not always bright and happy, but he's supposed to be the light, Batman is the dark, if everyone is just being dark and moody then what's the point?

I know everyone keeps saying DC but it's important to keep in mind that this is WB, and they are consistently using "in house" talent for a lot of this, they just are not willing to reach out the way Marvel Studios is able to and does do consistently. I think that insistence upon in house talent like Snyder is going to hurt them in the end.
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SeattleAgJr
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12:10a, 11/15/14
I would take a Snyder directed Deadpool movie in a heartbeat.
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TCTTS
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5:12p, 11/16/14
AG
Pretty legit fan-made poster...

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Blanco Jimenez
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:11p, 11/16/14
AG
That's badass!
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Vander
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In reply to Nonregdrummer09 • 7:54p, 11/16/14
AG
quote:
No, Marvel and DC have always been different, but I think Man of Steel was way off on tone and concept. While I like the Krypton politics and cultural stuff, the movie was sooooo dark for a Superman movie. And Superman's stories are not always bright and happy, but he's supposed to be the light, Batman is the dark, if everyone is just being dark and moody then what's the point?

I know everyone keeps saying DC but it's important to keep in mind that this is WB, and they are consistently using "in house" talent for a lot of this, they just are not willing to reach out the way Marvel Studios is able to and does do consistently. I think that insistence upon in house talent like Snyder is going to hurt them in the end.


DC has been much darker than Marvel for years now. DC Comics has been the grittier realistic personalities and such for decades. While it's an Elseworlds just take a look at the "Injustice" storyline that has Superman go ****ing nuts after the Joker destroys Metropolis with a nuke and tricks Superman into pulverizing Lois and his unborn child by making him think she is Doomsday. Superman then kills the Joker and decides to go full totalitarian and take over the world. Wonder Woman joins him and Batman opposes him as quite literally everyone dies. They have to ultimately get the mainline Superman to come and stop this Elseworlds Superman because any who could is dead.

DC has always been darker than Marvel, it's only now just being translated to the movies.
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Sex Panther
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7:56p, 11/16/14
AG
Meh... I cant stand the idea of the Joker and Superman even interacting.
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Blanco Jimenez
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7:58p, 11/16/14
AG
Just posting to be number 1000 but I will say this, I'm a self admitted DC fanboy and I prefer the stories and characters to Marvel. I'll go watch all these movies and smile the entire time. I feel like its a comic book movie. It's not something to be taken too seriously. Gab some popcorn, kick back, and enjoy!
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wesag
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In reply to Sex Panther • 7:58p, 11/16/14
AG
quote:
Meh... I cant stand the idea of the Joker and Superman even interacting.
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R0GUE
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In reply to Vander • 8:04p, 11/16/14
AG
quote:

DC has always been darker than Marvel, it's only now just being translated to the movies.


Whoa. Let's slow down on saying always. Honestly up until the New 52, DC was still seen as the more bright, colorful, optimistic of the two universes. Anything dark that was happening took place in either Gotham, or the Vertigo comics. Grant Morrison added some depth and complexity to DC but I hesitate to even say he made it much darker. Meanwhile you have Frank Miller doing Daredevil and Wolverine, Garth Ennis on Punisher, add in Venom, Carnage, Blade, Ghost Rider, etc. Marvel was definitely the grittier, darker company for years and years. Only recently with the success of the Arkham video games, the Nolan films, and the new 52, has DC tried to "out-grit" Marvel. Which is a mistake in my opinion.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Sex Panther • 8:05p, 11/16/14
AG
quote:
Meh... I cant stand the idea of the Joker and Superman even interacting.

Agreed. I seriously doubt it happens. He'll show up in Suicide Squad to whatever extent, then we probably won't see him again until the solo Batman movie. Justice League Parts 1 and 2 sound like they'll be too concerned with Braniac and Darkseid to squeeze in the Joker.
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wesag
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In reply to R0GUE • 8:16p, 11/16/14
AG
quote:
quote:

DC has always been darker than Marvel, it's only now just being translated to the movies.


Whoa. Let's slow down on saying always. Honestly up until the New 52, DC was still seen as the more bright, colorful, optimistic of the two universes. Anything dark that was happening took place in either Gotham, or the Vertigo comics. Grant Morrison added some depth and complexity to DC but I hesitate to even say he made it much darker. Meanwhile you have Frank Miller doing Daredevil and Wolverine, Garth Ennis on Punisher, add in Venom, Carnage, Blade, Ghost Rider, etc. Marvel was definitely the grittier, darker company for years and years. Only recently with the success of the Arkham video games, the Nolan films, and the new 52, has DC tried to "out-grit" Marvel. Which is a mistake in my opinion.


unpopular opinion- Both companies, in many aspects, became too adult and dark. I suppose they had to evolve, and this was the natural course, but if you've ever carried your 9 year old into a comic book store, you'll know what I mean.
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R0GUE
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In reply to wesag • 8:29p, 11/16/14
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:

DC has always been darker than Marvel, it's only now just being translated to the movies.


Whoa. Let's slow down on saying always. Honestly up until the New 52, DC was still seen as the more bright, colorful, optimistic of the two universes. Anything dark that was happening took place in either Gotham, or the Vertigo comics. Grant Morrison added some depth and complexity to DC but I hesitate to even say he made it much darker. Meanwhile you have Frank Miller doing Daredevil and Wolverine, Garth Ennis on Punisher, add in Venom, Carnage, Blade, Ghost Rider, etc. Marvel was definitely the grittier, darker company for years and years. Only recently with the success of the Arkham video games, the Nolan films, and the new 52, has DC tried to "out-grit" Marvel. Which is a mistake in my opinion.


unpopular opinion- Both companies, in many aspects, became too adult and dark. I suppose they had to evolve, and this was the natural course, but if you've ever carried your 9 year old into a comic book store, you'll know what I mean.


Well, I don't have a 9 year old, but I did manage a comic book store for 4 years and dealt with many children. And I don't think it is an unpopular opinion based on the fact that Man of Steel was not a well-recieved movie. Also, it's tough to find a DC comic in their new "grimdark" universe that I would want to give to a kid. Gotham Academy is really the only one I know of.

Meanwhile, Marvel still has their dark side, but ironically, they are also the company that has a lighter side too. Which is the way it's always been. Fantastic 4, Guardians of the Galaxy, most Spider-Man stories, I have no problem recommending them to younger readers.

I'm not saying, DC should try to be "hokey" or old-fashioned, but the way they used to distinguish themselves from Marvel was they were the more optimistic, the more mythological, the more idealistic comics. Now they've tried so hard to "out-dark" Marvel they've lost that identity, and Marvel is swooping in with talking racoons and trees which give you jokes and warm fuzzies.
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YouBet
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9:05p, 11/16/14
AG
quote:
I'm not saying, DC should try to be "hokey" or old-fashioned, but the way they used to distinguish themselves from Marvel was they were the more optimistic, the more mythological, the more idealistic comics.


Right or wrong Ive always thought DC was the more hokey pub compared to Marvel. Simply looking at the names in their rogues gallery shows you that. Having said that I have read several Batman story lines which are always good and I'm currently reading Injustice via the app (btw, would have appreciated a spoiler notice above) and it's definitely dark.
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FL_Ag1998
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In reply to wesag • 5:01a, 11/17/14
AG
quote:

unpopular opinion- Both companies, in many aspects, became too adult and dark. I suppose they had to evolve, and this was the natural course, but if you've ever carried your 9 year old into a comic book store, you'll know what I mean.


Not unpopular at all, IMO. I completely agree.
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TCTTS
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5:03p, 12/8/14
AG
Interesting details about Gordon, plus a few other nuggets...

http://badassdigest.com/2014/12/08/find-out-which-batman-character-is-already-dead-in-batman-v-superman/
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COOL LASER FALCON
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7:21p, 12/8/14
That's interesting. Is this the same universe as Gotham?
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TCTTS
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7:24p, 12/8/14
AG
No. Completely different.
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TCTTS
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1:07p, 12/15/14
AG
Tiny droplets of hope continue to leak indicating that this movie might actually be... decent?

http://badassdigest.com/2014/12/15/find-out-supermans-situation-in-batman-v-superman/
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FL_Ag1998
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1:25p, 12/15/14
AG
Like you said, tiny droplets....my concern is cramming too much into the movie, which was THE BIGGEST issue the first movie had IMO.
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Saxsoon
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1:36p, 12/15/14
AG
I don't feel like the first movie was terribly overcrowded. But you would think the industry would have learned from Spiderman 3 that too much is not a good thing.
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p-townag
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1:37p, 12/15/14
AG
I'm not sure I feel any better after reading that. Simply acknowledging two of Superman's mistakes doesn't really do a lot for me.
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