Just pointing out that despite the all stars they have, he's an important piece of the team even coming off the bench.
*****2017-2018 San Antonio Spurs*****
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Last: 6 yr ago by OlRock
Spurs as a potential landing place for Isaiah Thomas for the same MLE deal that Rudy Gay got:
https://hoopshype.com/2018/04/10/four-potential-isaiah-thomas-landing-spots-in-free-agency/
Not a bad option. Could always have Green or Dejonte on the floor with him to cover for his lack of defense.
Other destinations listed: Bulls, Knicks, Lakers.
https://hoopshype.com/2018/04/10/four-potential-isaiah-thomas-landing-spots-in-free-agency/
Not a bad option. Could always have Green or Dejonte on the floor with him to cover for his lack of defense.
Other destinations listed: Bulls, Knicks, Lakers.
Guitarsoup said:
Spurs as a potential landing place for Isaiah Thomas for the same MLE deal that Rudy Gay got:
https://hoopshype.com/2018/04/10/four-potential-isaiah-thomas-landing-spots-in-free-agency/
Not a bad option. Could always have Green or Dejonte on the floor with him to cover for his lack of defense.
Wouldn't be a bad option coming off the bench. He would basically have to take Patty's spot and he's an even worse defender than Mills. When healthy he's much better at creating offense, but how healthy is he? I wasn't a fan of Rudy Gay's signing last off-season and he had a solid year for us. Maybe Thomas could be resurgent as well.
I think IT3 starts and TP walks. Murray needs to work on his jumper or at least develop a corner three (.286 from the corner last year.) He doesn't seem like he can really carry the offense, so he needs to become at least a D&3 or at most a combo.
In 17 games with the hapless Lakers to close the season, he put up 16/5 but with 3.2 TOs in just 26mpg. Shooting was an anemic .383/.327.
In about the same mpg, Patty put up 10/3
That Patty contract is making me sick to my stomach. 3y/39mm left. He makes 9.26% of the cap next year and he has basically proven his peak is as a 10/3 player that can hit some threes and plays no defense.
In 17 games with the hapless Lakers to close the season, he put up 16/5 but with 3.2 TOs in just 26mpg. Shooting was an anemic .383/.327.
In about the same mpg, Patty put up 10/3
That Patty contract is making me sick to my stomach. 3y/39mm left. He makes 9.26% of the cap next year and he has basically proven his peak is as a 10/3 player that can hit some threes and plays no defense.
Spurs off-season situation:
On Roster: (18-19 salary/total guaranteed left)
TheMarcus 22.35/22.35
Kawhi 20.1/20.1
Gasol 16/23.5 (his 2020 contract is guaranteed for just 6.7mm, but 16mm if we don't cut him)
Patty 12.43/39
Ginobili 2.5/2.5
White 1.67/1.67
Murray 1.54/1.54
18th pick 1.9/4.0
Unguaranteed:
Brandon Paul: 1.38
Player option:
Green: 10mm
Gay: 8.83mm
Joffery 1.66mm
Dead cap:
Duncan 1.88
Free agents (cap hold)
Parker 23.18
Anderson 6.46
Bertrans 1.74
Forbes 1.74
Spurs have no cap space.
If Green/Gay/Joffery/Parker/Anderson walk, and Manu retires (stretch) the Spurs could have just under 30mm in cap space to work with while retaining rights to Bertrans and Forbes.
After seeing how we handled Gasol and Patty, I fully expect PATFO to give Bertans the max with that cap space, then get someone that used to be good and is now a 8th man with the MLE.
Maybe Victor Sanikdiske will finally come over.
On Roster: (18-19 salary/total guaranteed left)
TheMarcus 22.35/22.35
Kawhi 20.1/20.1
Gasol 16/23.5 (his 2020 contract is guaranteed for just 6.7mm, but 16mm if we don't cut him)
Patty 12.43/39
Ginobili 2.5/2.5
White 1.67/1.67
Murray 1.54/1.54
18th pick 1.9/4.0
Unguaranteed:
Brandon Paul: 1.38
Player option:
Green: 10mm
Gay: 8.83mm
Joffery 1.66mm
Dead cap:
Duncan 1.88
Free agents (cap hold)
Parker 23.18
Anderson 6.46
Bertrans 1.74
Forbes 1.74
Spurs have no cap space.
If Green/Gay/Joffery/Parker/Anderson walk, and Manu retires (stretch) the Spurs could have just under 30mm in cap space to work with while retaining rights to Bertrans and Forbes.
After seeing how we handled Gasol and Patty, I fully expect PATFO to give Bertans the max with that cap space, then get someone that used to be good and is now a 8th man with the MLE.
Maybe Victor Sanikdiske will finally come over.
Thanks for posting this. Not an ideal roster at all, but I think if Kawhi were to come back and be his old self (also a stretch) for the Spurs, then it may improve. He tended to make others around him better when he's on, in my opinion.
That being said, the Warriors may be too much to handle again next year for the western conference. Time will tell. Rockets gave them their best fight this past week that they've had all this time together (outside of the Cavs championship)
That being said, the Warriors may be too much to handle again next year for the western conference. Time will tell. Rockets gave them their best fight this past week that they've had all this time together (outside of the Cavs championship)
I think best case scenario is:
C: Gasol/#18?/Joffery/
PF: LMA/Gay/Bertrans
SF: Kawhi/Anderson
SG: Green/Dejonte/Forbes
PG: Tyreke or Rondo/Patty/White
If we did something like that, we might see a lot of 'small ball' with
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Dejonte
Rondo or Tyreke
Would be an incredible defensive team that would be able to play a GSW/Houston team defensively quite well.
- Pop and Kawhi kiss and make up. Kawhi comes back in full MVP-runner up 2017 form.
- Green and Gay opt in for one more year
- Parker takes tiny Manu-contract or walks away
- Chip and Dejonte spend the summer together; Dejonte learns how to shoot
- Spurs use MLE on someone that can handle point duties. One-time pop target Tyreke Evans would be ideal. Plus, he is injury prone, so he would fit in perfectly. Close second choice is Rajon Rondo.
- No clue who we draft.
- Keep Forbes/Anderson/Bertrans for reasonable amounts
C: Gasol/#18?/Joffery/
PF: LMA/Gay/Bertrans
SF: Kawhi/Anderson
SG: Green/Dejonte/Forbes
PG: Tyreke or Rondo/Patty/White
If we did something like that, we might see a lot of 'small ball' with
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Dejonte
Rondo or Tyreke
Would be an incredible defensive team that would be able to play a GSW/Houston team defensively quite well.
If Leonard comes back healthy we just need Lauvergne and Bertans to take a step forward so we don't have to play $16mm Gasol.
I don't see how the spurs can carry Isaiah Thomas and Patty Mills. That's a lot of money for tiny guards who don't play defense and aren't efficient on offense.
It's going to be really hard to talk about the off-season until Kawhi signs something and those player options are made. I'm pessimistic though, we laid an egg last off-season and now it's a chicken coming home to roost. All the wrong contracts have player options.
I don't see how the spurs can carry Isaiah Thomas and Patty Mills. That's a lot of money for tiny guards who don't play defense and aren't efficient on offense.
It's going to be really hard to talk about the off-season until Kawhi signs something and those player options are made. I'm pessimistic though, we laid an egg last off-season and now it's a chicken coming home to roost. All the wrong contracts have player options.
Gasol and Patty's contracts are worse than laying an egg.
I get why you're calling it small ball but that's a pretty big lineup with Tyreke.
Definitely agree. They looked bad at the time and they are aging as fast as Gasol.
Agree. And if you have to go up against an offensive lineup of:
Green -> LMA
Durant -> Kawhi
Iggy -> Tyreke
Klay -> Green
Curry -> Dejonte
That's about the best anyone can do, isn't it?
Or
Green -> LMA
Durant -> Kawhi
Iggy -> Dejonte
Klay -> Green
Curry -> Rondo
Defensively, I don't think you can do much better. If Dejonte can find a shot he can hit, that isn't a terrible offensive lineup, either.
Green -> LMA
Durant -> Kawhi
Iggy -> Tyreke
Klay -> Green
Curry -> Dejonte
That's about the best anyone can do, isn't it?
Or
Green -> LMA
Durant -> Kawhi
Iggy -> Dejonte
Klay -> Green
Curry -> Rondo
Defensively, I don't think you can do much better. If Dejonte can find a shot he can hit, that isn't a terrible offensive lineup, either.
The only real issue I see there is that with Rondo there's not much shooting on the floor. I would still be extremely happy to get him though.
Rondo did hit 38% of his threes a year ago in Chicago. There could be some hope. His last 3 years is 9.4/8.9/5.1/1.5 on 44%/36%. Could be worse.
Tyreke struggles to get in 50 games a season. Rondo has had 65+ each of his last 4. Tyreke has averaged 39 games per season over the past three seasons with a high of 52 last year.
Tyreke struggles to get in 50 games a season. Rondo has had 65+ each of his last 4. Tyreke has averaged 39 games per season over the past three seasons with a high of 52 last year.
I've been a fan of trying to add Tyreke for several years. He never turned into Manu 2.0, but he's got a very good skill set. I know the grizzlies were bad, but he averaged 19, 5, and 5 and shot 39% from 3. Much better shooter than Rondo and while not the as good defensively, he's 6'6" and that length can help make up for some of his deficiencies.
Either one would be a great get. I've wanted Tyreke on the spurs since he was in Sacramento.
Question:Guitarsoup said:
I think best case scenario is:
- Pop and Kawhi kiss and make up. Kawhi comes back in full MVP-runner up 2017 form.
- Green and Gay opt in for one more year
- Parker takes tiny Manu-contract or walks away
- Chip and Dejonte spend the summer together; Dejonte learns how to shoot
- Spurs use MLE on someone that can handle point duties. One-time pop target Tyreke Evans would be ideal. Plus, he is injury prone, so he would fit in perfectly. Close second choice is Rajon Rondo.
- No clue who we draft.
- Keep Forbes/Anderson/Bertrans for reasonable amounts
C: Gasol/#18?/Joffery/
PF: LMA/Gay/Bertrans
SF: Kawhi/Anderson
SG: Green/Dejonte/Forbes
PG: Tyreke or Rondo/Patty/White
If we did something like that, we might see a lot of 'small ball' with
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Dejonte
Rondo or Tyreke
Would be an incredible defensive team that would be able to play a GSW/Houston team defensively quite well.
If Rudy Gay opts-in, he was signed for the MLE, so he'd be in his 2nd year of that contract.
Does that use up the MLE for the Spurs then or is it still available to sign someone this year?
ESPN's mock draft has the Spurs picking Khyri Thomas from Creighton, a 6'4" combo guard with 6'10" wing-span. Supposed to be a great defender with a nice jump shot.
Anyone y'all hoping the Spurs draft?
Anyone y'all hoping the Spurs draft?
Enzo The Baker said:
ESPN's mock draft has the Spurs picking Khyri Thomas from Creighton, a 6'4" combo guard with 6'10" wing-span. Supposed to be a great defender with a nice jump shot.
Anyone y'all hoping the Spurs draft?
Even though the Spurs haven't picked this high in I don't know how long, we're still far from any kind of sure thing. Thomas wouldn't be a bad pick. You can never have too many perimeter defenders and shooters, but he's a little undersized (although 6'10 wingspan helps) and he's 22 so he's about tapped out on potential most likely. There's a lot to like about Thomas, but we did draft Derrick White last year that plays basically the same spot.
Troy Brown from Oregon is intriguing to me. 6'7 and played pg, pretty good athlete and defender, but the jumper needs a little work (not as broken as Dejounte's). He'll still be 18 by draft night, so higher ceiling potentially, but not as NBA ready.
They need to draft the best scorer available that isn't a midget.
AG 2000' said:
They need to draft the best scorer available that isn't a midget.
I've seen some mocks that have the Spurs picking Dzanan Musa from Bosnia. 6'9 excellent shooter and scorer, but questions about his ability to fill out the frame to guard bigger guys and his quickness to guard out on the perimeter. But he's certainly an interesting prospect. Saw a player comp of the Bogdanovic bros and seems like a pretty good comparison. Lots of range on his jumper.
I agree we need a shooter but they can't be a slouch on defense. The way Houston and GS exploits pick and roles, we need players who can guard multiple positions.
Sounds an awful lot like Bertans.
I also don't think his age of 22 should be a knock. If he's nba ready then who cares? The spurs haven't had a rookie who has contributed consistently in their first year since Kawhi. That's what they should and realistically could get with this pick, a solid contributor. I don't want another project.
Ulrich said:
Sounds an awful lot like Bertans.
A lot better ball handler and finisher inside than Bertans. I'm not saying that's who the Spurs should pick, but was replying to the best scorer that isn't a midget. Dude can score.
ESPN mock draft yesterday had Michael Porter fall all the way to the wizards at 15. I highly doubt that many teams would pass on him, but if he starts to fall into the teens the Spurs need to try and trade up to get him. I know the injury concerns are why he'd fall that far, but it's not often you get that kind of potential available that low.
If LeBron walks and Cleveland firesales the team to tank and get under the tax, what about this:
Love for
Gasol+18+White
Gasol can be stretched over 5 years, so cutting him will cost Cleveland 4.6mm/year for five years on the cap. That would save Cleveland about $18mm this year plus would get them out of the luxury tax.
What better way to tank than to trade for Pau Gasol?
Then spend the MLE on Rondo or Tyreke and pray that Kawhi just had his phone on silent for the last 6 months and didn't realize it.
Love for
Gasol+18+White
Gasol can be stretched over 5 years, so cutting him will cost Cleveland 4.6mm/year for five years on the cap. That would save Cleveland about $18mm this year plus would get them out of the luxury tax.
What better way to tank than to trade for Pau Gasol?
Then spend the MLE on Rondo or Tyreke and pray that Kawhi just had his phone on silent for the last 6 months and didn't realize it.
Would love to ditch Gasol's contract, but does Love really help us with LMA here? Seems like a weird fit for today's league. Not saying we couldn't make it work, but at $25 mm a year thats toughGuitarsoup said:
If LeBron walks and Cleveland firesales the team to tank and get under the tax, what about this:
Love for
Gasol+18+White
Gasol can be stretched over 5 years, so cutting him will cost Cleveland 4.6mm/year for five years on the cap. That would save Cleveland about $18mm this year plus would get them out of the luxury tax.
What better way to tank than to trade for Pau Gasol?
Then spend the MLE on Rondo or Tyreke and pray that Kawhi just had his phone on silent for the last 6 months and didn't realize it.
No clue. Love lives on that corner 3, and LMA never really picked it up. So they would be in different places on the court. Love played 99% of his minutes at C this year. He's just a terrible defender.
Guitarsoup said:
If LeBron walks and Cleveland firesales the team to tank and get under the tax, what about this:
Love for
Gasol+18+White
Gasol can be stretched over 5 years, so cutting him will cost Cleveland 4.6mm/year for five years on the cap. That would save Cleveland about $18mm this year plus would get them out of the luxury tax.
What better way to tank than to trade for Pau Gasol?
Then spend the MLE on Rondo or Tyreke and pray that Kawhi just had his phone on silent for the last 6 months and didn't realize it.
I hate to give up our first round pick for Kevin Love, but offensively he'd slide in nicely next to Aldridge and has played his fair share as the lone big with Cleveland. Regardless of any of this, we've got to upgrade from Joffrey. I know he's our third center, but good god he was awful this year. Perhaps bring over Milutinov that was our 2015 pick.
Defense is the issue. Mostly because Love simply isn't a good defender, but also because the spurs don't have anyone besides Lauvergne who should be bodying up the handful of centers still in the game. Aldridge can, but I'd rather he not use his legs up holding off Cousins, Marc Gasol, Jokic, Embiid, or Towns.
EDIT: not that Gasol could, mostly I'm not sure that I want to give up a good draft pick for a stretch four that doesn't defend and isn't that prolific a scorer on a good team taking up $25mm of cap space. That's a ton of money in the frontcourt.
EDIT: not that Gasol could, mostly I'm not sure that I want to give up a good draft pick for a stretch four that doesn't defend and isn't that prolific a scorer on a good team taking up $25mm of cap space. That's a ton of money in the frontcourt.
I'd rather try our luck with the 18th pick. Love would only make the Spurs marginally better. Not enough to make a difference in them getting to the finals anyways. He will get burned by everyone in the playoffs.
But if we could unload Patty's contract too without giving up our draft pick, I'd consider it.
My thought is that:
Boogie leaves NOLA.
PG leaves OKC.
Green stays because no one has money to pay him this year.
What contenders have post players we need to worry about defensively?
Love
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Rondo or Tyreke
2nd team:
LMA or Love
Gay
Anderson or Bertans
Dejonte
Patty
Just a thought. The only other team that may firesale is OKC, who won't trade to us.
Boogie leaves NOLA.
PG leaves OKC.
Green stays because no one has money to pay him this year.
What contenders have post players we need to worry about defensively?
Love
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Rondo or Tyreke
2nd team:
LMA or Love
Gay
Anderson or Bertans
Dejonte
Patty
Just a thought. The only other team that may firesale is OKC, who won't trade to us.
I don't think it's post players we have to worry about. It's about us having two slow-footed big men to guard small ball lineups and getting picked apart on switches from P&Rs every possession.
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