You knew Pop wouldn't trade without getting a awkward at times white guy from overseas back.
*****2017-2018 San Antonio Spurs*****
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Last: 6 yr ago by OlRock
That novel made me hopeful until I got to this part:
That might be the worst spurs defensive line up of all time
Quote:
-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That's the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing
That might be the worst spurs defensive line up of all time
flashplayer said:
That novel made me hopeful until I got to this part:Quote:
-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That's the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing
That might be the worst spurs defensive line up of all time
It's a long ways from the days of Green, Leonard, Splitter, and Timmy giving opposing offenses hell and being able to hide one player. Now, we're trying to hide 2 to 3 at a time.
Pop said in his interview that he watched Lonnie play in the summer league. He said Lonnie's athleticism and doing things off of the cuff reminded him of Manu when he was younger.
You know Pop is going to really hammer down the defensive principles in training camp this season. All these young guys plus some new vets who don't have a rep for playing defense. The gauntlet has been dropped for this challenge.
Per basketball reference (spurs career): second in made 3 pointers, 7th in blocks.
Will spurs retire Danny greens number?
Will spurs retire Danny greens number?
Which one? 4 or 14?mike_ags_fan12 said:
Per basketball reference (spurs career): second in made 3 pointers, 7th in blocks.
Will spurs retire Danny greens number?
Either one will be in the rafters before #2.
I've felt Pop checked out after winning the title in 2014. He sounded salty today. Maybe this whole Kawhi thing has reignited the fire.
The Spurs have about 8 solid second team guys but only two clear starting caliber players, three if Gay returns to form. A lot of times the right stars can make a role player an effective starter (see: Danny Green), but I'm not sure the spurs have those kind of starters. There aren't enough guys who are average or better on both ends and the role players are good at one thing in one end, not one thing on each end.
There are paths to contention but they all seem to involve at least two vets making dramatic changes to their game and one young guy becoming twice the player he was last year.
Gonna be an interesting year.
There are paths to contention but they all seem to involve at least two vets making dramatic changes to their game and one young guy becoming twice the player he was last year.
Gonna be an interesting year.
just what i've been told. take it for what it's worth. i've said this before on this thread several times. we were never gonna pay him until he proved he could play again. that's why he kept our doctors away. he ain't healthy. can't play defense like he did before. take his defense away and he's not top 10 player. his main value was that he could guard anybody in the league and score 20+ game. nobody in the game can do that right now.Old Army Metal said:That's a scorching hot take, anything to back it up?DSAg44 said:
kawhi's career is over. spurs got what they could get.
Have some of y'all looked at the rosters around the league? We aren't golden state but we have a solid damn roster after this trade. You can poke holes in almost everyone's roster if that is your goal.
Modern NBA is obsessed with you have to be a favorite to win it all or you might as well say screw it and blow it up. Losing KL sucks, it really does. However this roster will compete ever night and give us a chance at a good season. You never know what will happen. I swear the idea of tanking sounds better to some fans.
Modern NBA is obsessed with you have to be a favorite to win it all or you might as well say screw it and blow it up. Losing KL sucks, it really does. However this roster will compete ever night and give us a chance at a good season. You never know what will happen. I swear the idea of tanking sounds better to some fans.
Who's talking about tanking?
tank next season and pick up David Robinson. Tank another and we get Duncan and we're back in business!Ulrich said:
Who's talking about tanking?
I think we should try to get Duncan Robinson.
Malcolm52 said:
Have some of y'all looked at the rosters around the league? We aren't golden state but we have a solid damn roster after this trade. You can poke holes in almost everyone's roster if that is your goal.
Modern NBA is obsessed with you have to be a favorite to win it all or you might as well say screw it and blow it up. Losing KL sucks, it really does. However this roster will compete ever night and give us a chance at a good season. You never know what will happen. I swear the idea of tanking sounds better to some fans.
The modern NBA is like that because that's what the modern NBA requires. If you have a hole you will lose to golden state, shouldn't even try really. Houston got really lucky last year and came close to beating the warriors, but that was an illusion.
The logical thing to do is to tank until the warriors break up if you just have an OK roster like the spurs. It's human nature though to compete as hard as you can, and who knows the warriors could have two or three key guys injured in the playoffs. The result for the spurs will be 4th-8th place finishes in the West for several years until something drastic changes for better or worse.
Timvp is back on Spurstalk? Haven't visited there in a couple years at least and he had been gone for a while (which coincided with the site going more downhill). I'm in agreement with his view on DeRozan, although I like Poetl more than he does.
Ulrich said:
The Spurs have about 8 solid second team guys but only two clear starting caliber players, three if Gay returns to form. A lot of times the right stars can make a role player an effective starter (see: Danny Green), but I'm not sure the spurs have those kind of starters. There aren't enough guys who are average or better on both ends and the role players are good at one thing in one end, not one thing on each end.
There are paths to contention but they all seem to involve at least two vets making dramatic changes to their game and one young guy becoming twice the player he was last year.
Gonna be an interesting year.
We should remain competitive, but I don't think there are any legit paths to contention with this roster that don't involve having injuries hit the real contenders pretty hard.
There was no possibility of coming out this looking better on paper. But the "evaluations" i'm hearing so far are pretty darn slanted. Derozan is a VERY good player. He'll be the best perimeter offensive player the Spurs have had in the last 20 years. Honestly, even Kawhi was really only elite for one full season. How many teams in the league have both an all pro caliber guard AND front court player? Not many.
I think Green is overrated at this point. He's a great defender but he couldn't stay on the floor in SA anymore due to his offensive limitations. I like the idea of having Walker, White and whoever step in and try to grow quickly. I do think Green will be great in Toronto.
Poeltl could end up being the crazy wild card in all this. He's getting almost no love from the pundits. I haven't spent more than 10 seconds looking at him so I can't say much. But it is interesting that the Spurs took him. They target certain types of players and he could be a great fit.
The most frustrating aspect of these evaluations to me is the concept of "if you can't beat the Warriors you should blow it up." That's not the way the Spurs operate. They clearly favor adding pieces and coaching them up to form a winning team. I also believe the Spurs front office favors locking guys into contracts so they have control. The Spurs just don't like uncertainty. They want to know who they have and they value consistency. Fans and pundits value cap space and draft picks WAY more than the Spurs do.
I was listening to a Podcast this morning and Brian Windhorst made and clever observation. He said it was interesting that "we" value a Jaylon Brown, Fultz, or Ingram more than Derozan. Derozan is better than all those guys today and we don't really know where those other guys will end up.
I think Green is overrated at this point. He's a great defender but he couldn't stay on the floor in SA anymore due to his offensive limitations. I like the idea of having Walker, White and whoever step in and try to grow quickly. I do think Green will be great in Toronto.
Poeltl could end up being the crazy wild card in all this. He's getting almost no love from the pundits. I haven't spent more than 10 seconds looking at him so I can't say much. But it is interesting that the Spurs took him. They target certain types of players and he could be a great fit.
The most frustrating aspect of these evaluations to me is the concept of "if you can't beat the Warriors you should blow it up." That's not the way the Spurs operate. They clearly favor adding pieces and coaching them up to form a winning team. I also believe the Spurs front office favors locking guys into contracts so they have control. The Spurs just don't like uncertainty. They want to know who they have and they value consistency. Fans and pundits value cap space and draft picks WAY more than the Spurs do.
I was listening to a Podcast this morning and Brian Windhorst made and clever observation. He said it was interesting that "we" value a Jaylon Brown, Fultz, or Ingram more than Derozan. Derozan is better than all those guys today and we don't really know where those other guys will end up.
Well said Natural
You believe DeRozan is a better offensive player than Kawhi? It's Kawhi and I don't even think it's a close call.
I think Derozan has done more over a longer period. You could say Kawhi is better today if healthy. So that makes Derozan the 2nd best perimeter offensive player the Spurs have had since forever.DTP02 said:
You believe DeRozan is a better offensive player than Kawhi? It's Kawhi and I don't even think it's a close call.
Enzo The Baker said:
Pop said in his interview that he watched Lonnie play in the summer league. He said Lonnie's athleticism and doing things off of the cuff reminded him of Manu when he was younger.
Not possible. If you had watched 99.9% of spurs games since 1907, you'd know Lonnie is terrible.
DeRozan actually shows up and doesn't fake injuries.
Look at total games missed between Kawhi and DeRozan. Even if you cut out last year, having your best player actually playing means a lot.
Having the second best center in the league didn't help Portland much the 65 games a year Walton was injured.
Look at total games missed between Kawhi and DeRozan. Even if you cut out last year, having your best player actually playing means a lot.
Having the second best center in the league didn't help Portland much the 65 games a year Walton was injured.
DTP02 said:
Timvp is back on Spurstalk? Haven't visited there in a couple years at least and he had been gone for a while (which coincided with the site going more downhill). I'm in agreement with his view on DeRozan, although I like Poetl more than he does.
I don't think he's on there full time like he used to be. Pretty sure the magnitude of the trade drew him back to make a post.
DeRozan can drive, get to the line, and spot up. SA's offense will benefit his overall game IMO. More passing and where those passes put him on the floor should result in less isolation and higher quality 3s. Plus, less iso could mean he has more energy for defense. Very few players can lead a team in scoring, in so much iso nonetheless, AND defend well.
I still haven't seen anyone say that the spurs should try to tank. I am of the opinion that DeRozan makes a tank more likely in the long run, but I'm not in favor of it.
There are trades that other people would have liked less but that I would have liked more. There are always guys like DeRozan who can put up a bunch of points on even more shots and don't play defense. I'd rather take someone who is a little less "talented" but plays defense and smarter offense.
Now you have to surround him with defenders because he doesn't defend and shooters because he can't shoot, but we only have one solid defender and one elite shooter and they aren't the same guy.
So... we need guys in or nearing their 30s to change into good defenders and shooters, or we need some of our young guys to make an enormous leap. Pop is good, but those kinds of transformation usually take years, not weeks.
There are trades that other people would have liked less but that I would have liked more. There are always guys like DeRozan who can put up a bunch of points on even more shots and don't play defense. I'd rather take someone who is a little less "talented" but plays defense and smarter offense.
Now you have to surround him with defenders because he doesn't defend and shooters because he can't shoot, but we only have one solid defender and one elite shooter and they aren't the same guy.
So... we need guys in or nearing their 30s to change into good defenders and shooters, or we need some of our young guys to make an enormous leap. Pop is good, but those kinds of transformation usually take years, not weeks.
Problem for a small market to tank is if you lose fan support, you're done. I don't think the Spurs could afford to tank so soon after losing Tim. We had some waning fan attendance this last season.
I hear you. I'm just a little more optimistic that Pop can get almost anyone to play Spurs basketball. That is you play defense and you take good shots on offense. He got Aldridge to buy in so why not Derozen?
If you're right we'll end up with a hell of a team in 2019-2020.
I think if you want guys to change their stripes, it takes a coach but it also takes a critical mass of players who are bought in.
Tony Parker came in probably without the kind of attitude that he has today, but NBA champions David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Gregg Popovich, et al taught him the way. SJax came in at the same time but it didn't stick so they moved him. Repeat 100x through today.
I'm not convinced that Aldridge is a true evangelist for the spurs' way just yet. Defensively he bought in, but offensively he still plays his way and he was apparently requesting a trade just 12 months ago. If Manu retires there's really no one left on the court that I'm confident is truly committed to the spurs way of doing things and has championship cachet and the performance to back up the things they're saying.
All the production is going to come from Rudy Gay with his well known history, the recent convert Aldridge, and benched-in-the-playoffs DeRozan. Murray is probably the wild card there, he might be able to step into a leadership role but those other guys have been a lot better for a lot longer.
I think if you want guys to change their stripes, it takes a coach but it also takes a critical mass of players who are bought in.
Tony Parker came in probably without the kind of attitude that he has today, but NBA champions David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Gregg Popovich, et al taught him the way. SJax came in at the same time but it didn't stick so they moved him. Repeat 100x through today.
I'm not convinced that Aldridge is a true evangelist for the spurs' way just yet. Defensively he bought in, but offensively he still plays his way and he was apparently requesting a trade just 12 months ago. If Manu retires there's really no one left on the court that I'm confident is truly committed to the spurs way of doing things and has championship cachet and the performance to back up the things they're saying.
All the production is going to come from Rudy Gay with his well known history, the recent convert Aldridge, and benched-in-the-playoffs DeRozan. Murray is probably the wild card there, he might be able to step into a leadership role but those other guys have been a lot better for a lot longer.
Saw on ESPN them grading a spurs D+ and raptors A for this trade.
Not really sure what else the spurs could have done...they would get zero for Leonard after this year, assuming he even played at all.
Not really sure what else the spurs could have done...they would get zero for Leonard after this year, assuming he even played at all.
My concern is Aldridge's buy in had a lot to do with him not needing to share the ball with Kawhi, and being the uncontested alpha dog on offense. Does that still apply with Demar on the floor?Ulrich said:
If you're right we'll end up with a hell of a team in 2019-2020.
I think if you want guys to change their stripes, it takes a coach but it also takes a critical mass of players who are bought in.
Tony Parker came in probably without the kind of attitude that he has today, but NBA champions David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Gregg Popovich, et al taught him the way. SJax came in at the same time but it didn't stick so they moved him. Repeat 100x through today.
I'm not convinced that Aldridge is a true evangelist for the spurs' way just yet. Defensively he bought in, but offensively he still plays his way and he was apparently requesting a trade just 12 months ago. If Manu retires there's really no one left on the court that I'm confident is truly committed to the spurs way of doing things and has championship cachet and the performance to back up the things they're saying.
All the production is going to come from Rudy Gay with his well known history, the recent convert Aldridge, and benched-in-the-playoffs DeRozan. Murray is probably the wild card there, he might be able to step into a leadership role but those other guys have been a lot better for a lot longer.
evan_aggie said:
Saw on ESPN them grading a spurs D+ and raptors A for this trade.
Not really sure what else the spurs could have done...they would get zero for Leonard after this year, assuming he even played at all.
A D+ is hilarious. I guess the media decided they are done with the Spurs.
Edit: And how does Toronto get an A if Kawhi has no interest in re-signing? ESPN is terrible.
I don't even grade the trade a D. I'd go C+. I have a lot of complaints but they are all on the margin. It's not the talent I would have picked but it is about as good a talent for talent swap as could be expected.
If you think the spurs should have gone towards rebuilding then this trade is bad for SA. The team is locked in to the middle of the pack (1st or maybe 2nd round playoff exits).
For the Raptors, they got a one year rental on Kawhi to take a shot, but also kept all their best young assets. If Kawhi leaves they rebuild around the young core, if he stays they got a super star for an all star.
For the Raptors, they got a one year rental on Kawhi to take a shot, but also kept all their best young assets. If Kawhi leaves they rebuild around the young core, if he stays they got a super star for an all star.
Who has seen kawhi play or practice in 2018?
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