*****2017-2018 San Antonio Spurs*****

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Ulrich
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10:43p, 7/1/18
The part that I really don't get is that the Lakers currently have:

Ball / Ennis
KCP / Hart / Stephenson
Ingram / Kuzma
Lebron / Kuzma / Randall
Randall / McGee

They already have most of their talent at the 3 / 4.

Lets say you get Kawhi for free. Ingram either has to come off the bench (taking all of Kuzma's minutes) or start out of position at the 2. Kuzma becomes an insurance policy. So you're willing to miss out on Kawhi Leonard so that you can hang on to bench players?

Offer Ingram and a pick and you're still a MUCH better team. Somehow get Leonard without giving anything up and there aren't enough minutes to go around at the position anyway, it just looks like spite.
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Ulrich
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11:00p, 7/1/18
Actually, I was just thinking about the 17mm LAL just spent to bolster the 2-guard. Those are both one year deals. Devin Booker and Klay Thompson are free agents next year.

So maybe the Lakers have basically decided they'll only take Kawhi as a steal this year. Next year they'll make a play for him in free agency and try to wrangle one of Thompson / Booker as S&Ts for a package involving Ingram and/or Kuzma.

Ball
Thompson
Kawhi
Lebron
Randall

I haven't thought all the way through the salary cap stuff, but the cap is supposed to go up another 8 or so. They can renounce Deng to clear around 14 of his 18 (or use him as part of the aforementioned S&T to make salaries work, then the other team can renounce him). Ball still on a rookie contract. Lebron is taking 37. They'll be under the cap this year if they want to be, so no repeater tax, and they'll be willing to pay tax for that team. That's a hell of a lineup and ring chasers will be lined up around the block to fill in gaps.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ulrich • 11:20p, 7/1/18
AG
Ulrich said:
Actually, I was just thinking about the 17mm LAL just spent to bolster the 2-guard. Those are both one year deals. Devin Booker and Klay Thompson are free agents next year.

So maybe the Lakers have basically decided they'll only take Kawhi as a steal this year. Next year they'll make a play for him in free agency and try to wrangle one of Thompson / Booker as S&Ts for a package involving Ingram and/or Kuzma.

Ball
Thompson
Kawhi
Lebron
Randall
Good thought. Remember that Klay's dad was a major role player along side Magic Johnson on some of those 80s Lakers teams. I remember when the Spurs traded him for Brick and everyone in the Hemisfair booed him when he came back.



Rather than gifting the Lakers a top 5 player, I'd rather work a deal with the Clippers for Harris, Shai, and picks. My cousin works for the Pistons and they love Tobias. Great teammate and the whole front office liked him a lot. Pat Beverley is coming off microfracture surgery, but his contract is unguaranteed, and was signed before they changed the rules, so he could be cut after we acquire him. Add in Patty and Bev, too.

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Ulrich
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 11:28p, 7/1/18
SGA would be a great fit here. They'd have to figure out what to do about SGA / Murray / Walker though, that is 3 combo guards that probably all expect to start in year 2. If one of them is happy coming off the bench as Manu-2, we can slide Green to the 3 (off the bench depending on what happens to shore up the position), then Gay / Aldridge as the 4 / 5.

That's a big, versatile lineup. The young guards probably wouldn't "get it" until Gay/Aldridge are on the downhill side, but at least you know what you need.
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Ulrich
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11:35p, 7/1/18
I wonder if SA is trying to get in touch with Favors. He was really promising early but I haven't kept up. His stats look fairly pedestrian, but if the price is right maybe that's not a bad move.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ulrich • 11:35p, 7/1/18
AG
Let's say the big Irishman OQuinn takes our 3mm left.

OQuinn/Gasol
LMA/Gay
Tobias/Beli
Green/Lonnie/Manu
SGA/Murray/White

Not a terrible rebuilding team. Some good vet leadership, talented young guys and a lack of little *****es.
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Ulrich
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 11:41p, 7/1/18
I like that roster. Doubt LAC would give up SGA, but that's the best overall roster I've seen come out of the different prospective trades. My only real problems with it that there are a ton of minutes going to new guys (but there's no way around that) and I'm not sure how well Murray would take coming off the bench (but he hasn't done anything to lock down any particular starting position).
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ulrich • 11:47p, 7/1/18
AG
Dejonte put up 13.5 points and 4.8 assists per 36 last year. Want to start for the Spurs? Learn to shoot and pass, kid.

Parker and Gasol were the only two players with more than 3.0APG with 3.5 and 3.1.

Hope some competition lights a fire in his belly.
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Ulrich
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11:48p, 7/1/18
Murray is such an awkward piece right now. Paraphrasing an article I read recently, the sum of his parts is clearly an NBA player, but he's not an NBA-caliber PG, SG, or SF. He can handle the ball, rebound, and is valuable defensively, but he doesn't facilitate, can't shoot, and isn't strong enough to defend wings. I don't think he should be starting until he either bulks up or learns to run the offense.
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Faustus
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 11:56p, 7/1/18
Guitarsoup said:
ToHntortoFsh said:
Pendragon12 said:
Because if PATFO legitimately believes that keeping Kawhi is detrimental to the team, and there is zero hope to convince him to stay long term, then you weigh that with the value being offered.

I don't expect them to take pennies, but fultz, Saric, a few first rounders (preferably the Miami one), maybe some salary fillers is not a bad trade for a very disgruntled star with one year remaining. Especially if we feel we can fix Markell's shot. He was the #1 pick for a reason a year ago.

Simmons and Embiid are cornerstones to that franchise. They're young, cheap, and improving. And if the goal is Lebron, trading Simmons is counterproductive. They seem to be close.


So basically take it in the teeth and get a pat on the back? Why not send his ass somewhere else?


Who is going to give a Kings ransom for a one year rental
Vlade and Sacramento?
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Faustus • 12:03a, 7/2/18
AG
Faustus said:
Guitarsoup said:
ToHntortoFsh said:
Pendragon12 said:
Because if PATFO legitimately believes that keeping Kawhi is detrimental to the team, and there is zero hope to convince him to stay long term, then you weigh that with the value being offered.

I don't expect them to take pennies, but fultz, Saric, a few first rounders (preferably the Miami one), maybe some salary fillers is not a bad trade for a very disgruntled star with one year remaining. Especially if we feel we can fix Markell's shot. He was the #1 pick for a reason a year ago.

Simmons and Embiid are cornerstones to that franchise. They're young, cheap, and improving. And if the goal is Lebron, trading Simmons is counterproductive. They seem to be close.


So basically take it in the teeth and get a pat on the back? Why not send his ass somewhere else?


Who is going to give a Kings ransom for a one year rental
Vlade and Sacramento?
I'd have gone for #2, Cauley-Stein, and Bogdon. Too bad they didn't take Luka.
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Pumpkinhead
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6:21a, 7/2/18
AG
Popovich is turning 70 and per reports probably has 1-2 more seasons left coaching the Spurs. This Kawhi issue already consumed last season and Hard to imagine he wants to extend that drama into next season going down a 'Force Kawhi to play out his contract' path, if that had a big chance of turning next season into a circus.
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Guitarsoup
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8:46a, 7/2/18
AG
Never underestimate the stubbornness of Gregg Popovich
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dave99ag
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9:23a, 7/2/18
AG
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Guitarsoup
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9:30a, 7/2/18
AG
Multiple league sources suggest the Lakers could send a package to the Spurs featuring Ingram, multiple first-round picks, a sign-and-trade involving Randle, and possibly Josh Hart. -TheRinger
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Good Poster
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:33a, 7/2/18
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Multiple league sources suggest the Lakers could send a package to the Spurs featuring Ingram, multiple first-round picks, a sign-and-trade involving Randle, and possibly Josh Hart. -TheRinger


We will see how accurate that report is but if I'm the Spurs how fast do I take that deal? Half a second? Less?
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:34a, 7/2/18
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Multiple league sources suggest the Lakers could send a package to the Spurs featuring Ingram, multiple first-round picks, a sign-and-trade involving Randle, and possibly Josh Hart. -TheRinger
at this point, **** it. just want it to be over. i would rather have kuzma instead of hart but, if thats what it takes to be done with this, then fine.
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flashplayer
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9:38a, 7/2/18
AG
Ingram/ Hart / Randle plus multiple first round picks would seem acceptable if the Spurs view Randle as a starter. We'll see what happens.

Pop is probably going to have a stroke with all the young guys though.
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Good Poster
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9:46a, 7/2/18
AG
Lol would take that so fast. Hope RC plays it off like the lakers aren't offering enough but he will reluctantly accept
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LouisHerbertWong
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9:56a, 7/2/18
AG
The more this drama plays out, the more disgusted I become with Kawho. What an absolute POS crybaby.
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DTP02
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In reply to Good Poster • 10:07a, 7/2/18
AG
Money Ag said:
Guitarsoup said:
Multiple league sources suggest the Lakers could send a package to the Spurs featuring Ingram, multiple first-round picks, a sign-and-trade involving Randle, and possibly Josh Hart. -TheRinger


We will see how accurate that report is but if I'm the Spurs how fast do I take that deal? Half a second? Less?


You're trading a top 5 player in the league to the team he's going to resign with and getting a couple picks at the bottom of the first round and only one guy with any serious potential in Ingram? That's far from a no-brainer.
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flashplayer
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In reply to DTP02 • 10:15a, 7/2/18
AG
DTP02 said:
Money Ag said:
Guitarsoup said:
Multiple league sources suggest the Lakers could send a package to the Spurs featuring Ingram, multiple first-round picks, a sign-and-trade involving Randle, and possibly Josh Hart. -TheRinger


We will see how accurate that report is but if I'm the Spurs how fast do I take that deal? Half a second? Less?


You're trading a top 5 player in the league to the team he's going to resign with and getting a couple picks at the bottom of the first round and only one guy with any serious potential in Ingram? That's far from a no-brainer.


Yep. For me, Randle is the main hurdle to pulling the trigger on that deal. I think he's a bench player and minimal contributor in a playoff scenario. I don't view Kuzma much better but he has at least potential to improve significantly.
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Guitarsoup
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10:26a, 7/2/18
AG
I just wonder what kind of contract Randle thinks he is worth. He's from Plano, so I am guessing the Spurs are probably a destination that would interest him, especially getting to play video games and smoke out with learn from Duncan from time to time.
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FTAG 2000
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10:27a, 7/2/18
AG
If that's the best they have to offer, stand pat. Let Kawhi and the kids in LA stumble around the first half of the season, and when the media frenzy in LA over them sitting as a fringe playoff contender hits its peak going into the All-Star break, then you call them and ask for a better offer.

Or just trade him to Philly and tell Magic to F off.

This situation is a mess, and it's going to lead to a lock out or serious change in the next CBA. This is effectively an NFL style holdout in a league that rolls with guaranteed contracts. I see the owners insisting on year to year, partially guaranteed deals moving forward after this.

F Kawhi and his group.
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Guitarsoup
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10:29a, 7/2/18
AG
https://www.expressnews.com/spurs-nation/article/Derrick-White-s-summer-league-agenda-13043456.php

Hope we see Derrick White took a big step forward in G League last year.
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Ag Natural
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10:44a, 7/2/18
AG
I'm not sold on Randle. But I've heard many analysts who really like him. He can score for sure. The question with all these young guys is the defense. Both Randle and Ingram have the physical tools to be very good defenders. So those guys in the spurs system could be great. Or they might buckle under real coaching and be terrible.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ag Natural • 10:48a, 7/2/18
AG
Yeah, really hard to extrapolate what a guy did on a 30-win terrible team to a 50-60 win team coached by the goat.

At the very least, Randle can shoot FTs and rebound, which is more than you can say for a lot of centers in the league.
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West Texan
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 10:55a, 7/2/18
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Yeah, really hard to extrapolate what a guy did on a 30-win terrible team to a 50-60 win team coached by the goat.


This is what has worried me the most about Ingram. There was no one in LA to take away shots from him and he only put up 16 a game. He should have been carrying a bigger load on such a terrible team.
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Guitarsoup
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11:35a, 7/2/18
AG
https://cleaningtheglass.com/making-sense-of-the-cap/

Good salary cap article.
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MookieBlaylock
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 11:52a, 7/2/18
AG
Guitarsoup said:
https://cleaningtheglass.com/making-sense-of-the-cap/

Good salary cap article.
Why would I read that? That is your job to do the cap work for us
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Guitarsoup
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11:59a, 7/2/18
AG
Ok, my plan would be:

Kawhi + Patty for
Tobias Harris + Shai GA + Pat Beverley's unguaranteed contract (signed before they changed rules saying team trading for him couldn't waive him) + picks

Decent team this year:

Gasol/???
LMA/Gay
Tobias/Marco
Green/Walker/Manu?
Shai/Murray/White

Beverley had microfracture surgery last year. Wouldn't count on him being the player he was with the Rockets.


Next summer assets/Cap breakdown:

* LMA: 26mm
* Gasol (stretched) 2.2mm
* Marco 6.3mm
* White 1.9mm
* Murray 1.7mm
* Shai GA ~4mm
* Walker ~3mm
* Incomplete Roster charge 5.4mm (6 spots at 900k each)

Total: ~50mm

Cap: 109mm

So the Spurs would have $59mm to work with next summer.

Spurs free agents:

* Tobias Harris
* Danny Green
* Rudy Gay
* Pat Beverley (if we don't cut him)
* Manu (assuming he plays this year)
* Parker (assuming he plays this year)
* Kyle Anderson (assuming he takes the 1y QO)
* Davis Bertans (assuming he takes the 1y QO)


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Ag Natural
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12:09p, 7/2/18
AG
I love the idea of trading Kawhi to the Clips.
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Aggie_3
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12:32p, 7/2/18
So pissed this situation even got to this point! with that said we need to get a damn good offer for him!
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duck79
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12:33p, 7/2/18
AG
If the trade of Harris plus picks 12 and 13 was on the table I didn't understand why the spurs didn't take it unless they still thought they could repair the relationship. Harris is not a bad player and the Spurs played all of last year without KL so they would have basically been adding a 3 that they didn't have last year. On top of that you had 2 lottery assets that you could have flipped for a big or used to draft a big. I feel like now the deals won't be as good because you have one less asset(current picks) to look at for your current team.
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Pendragon12
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 12:47p, 7/2/18
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Multiple league sources suggest the Lakers could send a package to the Spurs featuring Ingram, multiple first-round picks, a sign-and-trade involving Randle, and possibly Josh Hart. -TheRinger
If the Lakers can maneuver something around to get another team's pick that would be more valuable, then I think you do it if Randle doesn't want some insane contract.

I don't like it, but if PATFO feels like this is the way to go, and they don't want to deal with the Lakers even more than me, then I think you do it.
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