Great solid win!
***Official 2020-2021 Dallas Mavericks Season Thread***
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Last: 2 yr ago by MW03
True Anomaly said:
Great solid win!
Loved those confident free those from KP and Wes to ice it!
okay, my panic meter is slowly starting to go up.
KP is not really a star.
Luka is carrying the load with no real help.
More than likely a too early panic meter, but should mavs make a mega trade and blow this up?
KP is not really a star.
Luka is carrying the load with no real help.
More than likely a too early panic meter, but should mavs make a mega trade and blow this up?
Holy sheet, need to tap the brakes on that. Let's get the full team out there and then we'll see. Hell, Josh Richardson hasn't played one minute with both Luka and KP on the court.
They haven't had their full compliment of top 8 players one game this season.
KP is working his way back and is averaging 20/9 on 50% shooting and 33% from 3 going into this game.
KP is 25 years old. Luka is 22. There's a lot of time to figure out what to do with this team.
Call me crazy, but I think DFS, Kleber, and Richardson can make up a 4 point differential with their contributions.
KP is working his way back and is averaging 20/9 on 50% shooting and 33% from 3 going into this game.
KP is 25 years old. Luka is 22. There's a lot of time to figure out what to do with this team.
Call me crazy, but I think DFS, Kleber, and Richardson can make up a 4 point differential with their contributions.
I think KP is a great #2 for Luka. Hardaway is a pretty good #3.
Biggest need I've seen is a second or third creator.
Biggest need I've seen is a second or third creator.
My only concern is how bad did Covid knock Richardson, Klebet and Finney-Smith that they still aren't back?
If they're all ok and come back soon, the team will be fine.
But the west is so stacked.
If they're all ok and come back soon, the team will be fine.
But the west is so stacked.
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
Depends on the cost. If they want Maxi or a 1st round pick, then im a little hesitant. He's grossly overpaid but he would provide some value to the team, for sure.Saint Pablo said:
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
i think the best case scenario (for dallas) trade package would be JJ+Dwight+2nd rd pick. I think i'd do that.
Saint Pablo said:
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
I wonder how he would play next to Porzingis. Drummond is one of the last real centers in the league. He's a an excellent defender in the paint and he can score with his back to the basket. They both can't rim protect, though, which means you'd have to put Porzingis out guarding the perimeter with a lot of the 4s in the league.
We definitely need the rebounding, though. And Cleveland has to be trying to move him before the trade deadline. I'm not sure how much he would cost.
I think it'd just give us ability to match the Lakers, Nuggets and Jazz. From a purely roster construction standpoint, Drummond would be an incredible asset to have. We can always stagger his/KP's play to keep a traditional big on the court or go jumbo with both.MW03 said:Saint Pablo said:
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
I wonder how he would play next to Porzingis. Drummond is one of the last real centers in the league. He's a an excellent defender in the paint and he can score with his back to the basket. They both can't rim protect, though, which means you'd have to put Porzingis out guarding the perimeter with a lot of the 4s in the league.
We definitely need the rebounding, though. And Cleveland has to be trying to move him before the trade deadline. I'm not sure how much he would cost.
But again, i have no idea what his value around the league is and what it would cost for the Mavs to get him.
Quote:
i have no idea what his value around the league is
I think teams in general are moving away from the typical plodding center. I don't think he has a lot of value.
lol you don't say?Guitarsoup said:
I think teams in general are moving away from the typical plodding center. I don't think he has a lot of value.
I like the idea of trading Powell for him considering we'd get his contract off the books. It would leave us next year with only KP, Luka & Kleber under significant contracts. (JR too if he accepts his player option of 11.6M)
Can Andre Drummond move in a pick and roll? If not, then no.M.C. Swag said:Depends on the cost. If they want Maxi or a 1st round pick, then im a little hesitant. He's grossly overpaid but he would provide some value to the team, for sure.Saint Pablo said:
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
i think the best case scenario (for dallas) trade package would be JJ+Dwight+2nd rd pick. I think i'd do that.
It's the most replaceable (and overrated) skillset in the NBA. I think Dwight Powell was in the 95th percentile of roll man finishing at the rim and he's atrocious at basically every other valuable skillset. Is Drummond an elite PnR center? No, he's probably average (which is still higher than what WCS is), but that's not to say he can't do it.BallerStaf2003 said:Can Andre Drummond move in a pick and roll? If not, then no.M.C. Swag said:Depends on the cost. If they want Maxi or a 1st round pick, then im a little hesitant. He's grossly overpaid but he would provide some value to the team, for sure.Saint Pablo said:
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
i think the best case scenario (for dallas) trade package would be JJ+Dwight+2nd rd pick. I think i'd do that.
Where Drummond provides value is:
a) His size - If you're in a 7 game series against the Nuggest, Jazz, or Lakers (or even Clippers to an extent), the Mavs would need his size to be able to match against Jokic, Gobert and AD.
b) Rebounding (obviously) - one of the Mavs biggest flaws is their rebounding. Imagine what Luka and this offense could do with 2nd shot opportunities?
c) Offensive flexibility - Drummond is also an underrated passer for a big and is a legit post player (unlike KP who pretends to be a post player). Outside of Luka, we don't have players that can reliably score from the post. So Drummond brings value their as well.
Is he a $25m player? Absolutely not. The game has evolved beyond Drummond. He's probably closer to Powell money (about half). But that's not to say he wouldn't give the Mavs some on-court value. He'd be a nice option for Carlisle to have at his fingertips.
I agree that we need his size, rebounding, and presence.....M.C. Swag said:It's the most replaceable (and overrated) skillset in the NBA. I think Dwight Powell was in the 95th percentile of roll man finishing at the rim and he's atrocious at basically every other valuable skillset. Is Drummond an elite PnR center? No, he's probably average (which is still higher than what WCS is), but that's not to say he can't do it.BallerStaf2003 said:Can Andre Drummond move in a pick and roll? If not, then no.M.C. Swag said:Depends on the cost. If they want Maxi or a 1st round pick, then im a little hesitant. He's grossly overpaid but he would provide some value to the team, for sure.Saint Pablo said:
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
i think the best case scenario (for dallas) trade package would be JJ+Dwight+2nd rd pick. I think i'd do that.
Where Drummond provides value is:
a) His size - If you're in a 7 game series against the Nuggest, Jazz, or Lakers (or even Clippers to an extent), the Mavs would need his size to be able to match against Jokic, Gobert and AD.
b) Rebounding (obviously) - one of the Mavs biggest flaws is their rebounding. Imagine what Luka and this offense could do with 2nd shot opportunities?
c) Offensive flexibility - Drummond is also an underrated passer for a big and is a legit post player (unlike KP who pretends to be a post player). Outside of Luka, we don't have players that can reliably score from the post. So Drummond brings value their as well.
Is he a $25m player? Absolutely not. The game has evolved beyond Drummond. He's probably closer to Powell money (about half). But that's not to say he wouldn't give the Mavs some on-court value. He'd be a nice option for Carlisle to have at his fingertips.
But I think it comes at too great a cost.
The entire offense is focused on spreading the floor and allowing Luka to kick and dish in the pick and roll. If Andre Drummond can't run an effective pick and roll then he will just be clogging up the spacing and the lane.
The entire offense would change dramatically to accommodate his skill set, and that's way too big a cost in my opinion.
Drummond absolutely CAN run an effective PnR. Almost any player with a functioning brain can. My point is that its so invaluable that's it's not even worth considering. Luka can dime up Drummond just as easily as he does with WCS, KP, Powell, etc. There's nothing lost with Drummond in that role.BallerStaf2003 said:I agree that we need his size, rebounding, and presence.....M.C. Swag said:It's the most replaceable (and overrated) skillset in the NBA. I think Dwight Powell was in the 95th percentile of roll man finishing at the rim and he's atrocious at basically every other valuable skillset. Is Drummond an elite PnR center? No, he's probably average (which is still higher than what WCS is), but that's not to say he can't do it.BallerStaf2003 said:Can Andre Drummond move in a pick and roll? If not, then no.M.C. Swag said:Depends on the cost. If they want Maxi or a 1st round pick, then im a little hesitant. He's grossly overpaid but he would provide some value to the team, for sure.Saint Pablo said:
How would y'all feel about trading for Andre Drummond?
i think the best case scenario (for dallas) trade package would be JJ+Dwight+2nd rd pick. I think i'd do that.
Where Drummond provides value is:
a) His size - If you're in a 7 game series against the Nuggest, Jazz, or Lakers (or even Clippers to an extent), the Mavs would need his size to be able to match against Jokic, Gobert and AD.
b) Rebounding (obviously) - one of the Mavs biggest flaws is their rebounding. Imagine what Luka and this offense could do with 2nd shot opportunities?
c) Offensive flexibility - Drummond is also an underrated passer for a big and is a legit post player (unlike KP who pretends to be a post player). Outside of Luka, we don't have players that can reliably score from the post. So Drummond brings value their as well.
Is he a $25m player? Absolutely not. The game has evolved beyond Drummond. He's probably closer to Powell money (about half). But that's not to say he wouldn't give the Mavs some on-court value. He'd be a nice option for Carlisle to have at his fingertips.
But I think it comes at too great a cost.
The entire offense is focused on spreading the floor and allowing Luka to kick and dish in the pick and roll. If Andre Drummond can't run an effective pick and roll then he will just be clogging up the spacing and the lane.
The entire offense would change dramatically to accommodate his skill set, and that's way too big a cost in my opinion.
The offense is "Luka does everything". The Mavs don't have a single sharp shooter on their team. Nobody else can create their own shot or rebound. Those are 2 things Drummond can do. Give him the ball in the post and he'll score over 50% of the time. Have him on the court for another Iwundu bricked 3 and there's a 33% chance Drummond gets the rebound. Thats the value. Not whether he'll clog the lane, but whether he can actually score without getting a setup from Luka (something NO ONE else on this team can do).
I don't think Drummond is that great a defender, and think he wouldn't be all that great against AD on the perimeter. He'd be pretty good at clogging the lane defensively to prevent drives by LeBron. Offensively, he is a turnover machine. For a big guy that mainly shoots inside the charge circle, his shooting stats are atrocious.
He'd be great at cleaning the glass. Outside that, he might be a net negative.
https://medium.com/the-sports-scientist/andre-drummond-is-a-below-average-starting-center-in-the-nba-694be66eca6c
He'd be great at cleaning the glass. Outside that, he might be a net negative.
https://medium.com/the-sports-scientist/andre-drummond-is-a-below-average-starting-center-in-the-nba-694be66eca6c
Quote:
Post Up & Screen and Roll
Drummond took 3.1 post up possessions per game, which was about 16% of his possessions. He scored 0.91 PPP, which ranked in the 48th percentile and well below his team average of 1.06 PPP. For all players who had more post up possessions per game ranked on average in the 56th percentile.
Drummond also had a 17.1 TOV% compared to the same group of players who averaged a 14.3 TOV%. Although Drummond was not terrible on post ups, it was not a particularly good shot for the Pistons.
Drummond as the roll man was a similar story to him in the post. He ranked in the 30th percentile scoring 0.96 PPP, well below his team average.
Drummond's touch around the basket seemed average at best. He shot 63% FG from shots in the restricted area, which ranked 55th out of 76 starting centers this season.
He also only dunked 13.6% of his shots. Far less than Howard, Jordan, and Gobert, who dunked around 45% of their shots. Even more versatile players like Dwight Powell, Bam Adebayo, and John Collins all had dunk percentages above 20%.
Last time we played the Lakers we were out rebounded 53-27 & allowed 17 offensive rebounds. Last night we got out rebounded by denver 49-34 with 14 offensive. Drummond is only 27 & is the best rebounder in the league with a whopping career average of 14 rebounds per game. I think with a PG like Luka he can bring his FG% up close to 60%.
Put that in comparison though to waht the Mavericks currently have. KP is worse in the post. WCS is worse in the PnR. Neither can rebound. Like, no one is arguing that Drummond is the best PnR or Post player in the league, but he's better than what the mavs currently have. There's a role for him to play within this roster is my point.Guitarsoup said:
I don't think Drummond is that great a defender, and think he wouldn't be all that great against AD on the perimeter. He'd be pretty good at clogging the lane defensively to prevent drives by LeBron. Offensively, he is a turnover machine. For a big guy that mainly shoots inside the charge circle, his shooting stats are atrocious.
He'd be great at cleaning the glass. Outside that, he might be a net negative.
https://medium.com/the-sports-scientist/andre-drummond-is-a-below-average-starting-center-in-the-nba-694be66eca6cQuote:
Post Up & Screen and Roll
Drummond took 3.1 post up possessions per game, which was about 16% of his possessions. He scored 0.91 PPP, which ranked in the 48th percentile and well below his team average of 1.06 PPP. For all players who had more post up possessions per game ranked on average in the 56th percentile.
Drummond also had a 17.1 TOV% compared to the same group of players who averaged a 14.3 TOV%. Although Drummond was not terrible on post ups, it was not a particularly good shot for the Pistons.
Drummond as the roll man was a similar story to him in the post. He ranked in the 30th percentile scoring 0.96 PPP, well below his team average.
Drummond's touch around the basket seemed average at best. He shot 63% FG from shots in the restricted area, which ranked 55th out of 76 starting centers this season.
He also only dunked 13.6% of his shots. Far less than Howard, Jordan, and Gobert, who dunked around 45% of their shots. Even more versatile players like Dwight Powell, Bam Adebayo, and John Collins all had dunk percentages above 20%.
If all the Cavs are looking for is a 2nd round pick (the price they paid to acquire Drummond from Detroit), i think the mavs should do it.
Which one of y'all is Drummond's agent and which is his mom?
Lol I have a buddy who loves the idea of getting Drummond so was just curious what others think. I think we need someone more physical than Porzingis...idk who that would be. I wish we could have Bam, but that obviously is not possible.dave94 said:
Which one of y'all is Drummond's agent and which is his mom?
I really don't want Drummond. The Mavs are at least interesting with their length and putting KP at the 5. KP, Maxi, Hardaway/DFS, Josh and Luka, with Jalen playing heavy minutes is at least intriguing becuase they should be great on defense and better than what we have seen so far on offense.
I don't think Drummond adds much of anything other than clogging up the paint on offense and possibly helping a little against someone like Joker. I'd rather just see us get healthy and stick with who we have, even if the price tag is very low. With a true center who has absolutely no range, the uniqueness and matchup problems of KP is just wasted.
I don't think Drummond adds much of anything other than clogging up the paint on offense and possibly helping a little against someone like Joker. I'd rather just see us get healthy and stick with who we have, even if the price tag is very low. With a true center who has absolutely no range, the uniqueness and matchup problems of KP is just wasted.
Mavs are also being rumored in the Lonzo Ball trade sweepstakes
Just for fun, put these players in order based on the following stats:
Points:
1. 453
2. 436
3. 426
4. 405
Total Rebounds:
1. 202
2. 158
3. 156
4. 143
Assists:
1. 159
2. 158
3. 133
4. 80
Answer Key:
Points:
1. 453 Lebron
2. 436 Luka
3. 426 Jokic
4. 405 Giannis
Total Rebounds:
1. 202 Jokic
2. 158 Giannis
3. 156 Luka
4. 143 Lebron
Assists:
1. 159 Luka
2. 158 Jokic
3. 133 Lebraon
4. 80 Giannis
- Luka
- Lebron
- Giannis
- Jokic
Points:
1. 453
2. 436
3. 426
4. 405
Total Rebounds:
1. 202
2. 158
3. 156
4. 143
Assists:
1. 159
2. 158
3. 133
4. 80
Answer Key:
Points:
1. 453 Lebron
2. 436 Luka
3. 426 Jokic
4. 405 Giannis
Total Rebounds:
1. 202 Jokic
2. 158 Giannis
3. 156 Luka
4. 143 Lebron
Assists:
1. 159 Luka
2. 158 Jokic
3. 133 Lebraon
4. 80 Giannis
This is embarrassing...
Sucks. Covid really derailed the team early.
Gobert had more rebounds than our entire team in the first half
Chemistry is off with this team. They are not playing hard, its so clear.
I also think KP is overrated, he may average 20/7, but he really has no impact on the game.
This is another first round exit, IF they even make the playoffs given how tough the west is.
We are done with a quarter of the season, hard to see its an overreaction at this point.
I also think KP is overrated, he may average 20/7, but he really has no impact on the game.
This is another first round exit, IF they even make the playoffs given how tough the west is.
We are done with a quarter of the season, hard to see its an overreaction at this point.
Lol I may have been wrong. Something seems really off...Utah is about to run us off the floor again.Saint Pablo said:Still have a handful of key players out with COVID, THJ clearly is still fighting through injury, and KP just played his third game of the season. Things will be okay. Let's not overreact.South Platte said:
For all the talk about this team, they sure do play some crappy basketball. Hope they figure it out over the next few years, but this team has no idea how to win.
Can't buy a f*cling bucket right now!
This is just embarrassing, absolutely zero effort all around. These offensive rebounds that we have given up are just pitiful. Someone needs to step up
I think Rick is on the hot seat. Not his fault but he is not getting through.
We can't be this bad wjth Luka. This team plays like they ate each other. KP is not a third option even.
We can't be this bad wjth Luka. This team plays like they ate each other. KP is not a third option even.
Carlisle is not on the hot seat. At all.
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