Williams is a UFA and with McGovern, i don't see any way they bring him back.
********** Dallas Cowboys 2021 Season Thread **********
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Collins is better suited for left guard. But he's serviceable at right tackle. Cowboy offensive line has two great players, two average players, and one of the worst in NFL. Connor Williams killed 3 or 4 drives last night singlehandedly. He'd give up a big sack, big penalty, or get the running back blown up on 1st and 10. It wasn't that he got beat, at times it was like he wasn't on the field. Just a free rush to quarterback. He was just inept. And it gets in any quarterback's head, especially Dak. He gets rabbit feet and panics. He is anticipating that Williams' guy is in his face, even if Connor does his job occasionally.
Guys like Collins don't hurt you. You'd love to have five All-Pro linemen, but that's not realistic. Keep Collins, ditch Williams.
Guys like Collins don't hurt you. You'd love to have five All-Pro linemen, but that's not realistic. Keep Collins, ditch Williams.
birdman said:
Collins is better suited for left guard. But he's serviceable at right tackle. Cowboy offensive line has two great players, two average players, and one of the worst in NFL. Connor Williams killed 3 or 4 drives last night singlehandedly. He'd give up a big sack, big penalty, or get the running back blown up on 1st and 10. It wasn't that he got beat, at times it was like he wasn't on the field. Just a free rush to quarterback. He was just inept. And it gets in any quarterback's head, especially Dak. He gets rabbit feet and panics. He is anticipating that Williams' guy is in his face, even if Connor does his job occasionally.
Guys like Collins don't hurt you. You'd love to have five All-Pro linemen, but that's not realistic. Keep Collins, ditch Williams.
I agree that you have to keep Collins, but I think he's done at RT. He's not going to get better being one year older. They HAVE to move him in to LG.
I think you draft OT early and hope that a combination of Steele, Tyron and the draft pick can hold things down. they also drafted the Ball kid from Marshall last year and he redshirted. I haven't read anything on how they feel about him.
I don't think you replace any coach. I certainly don't think you replace a coach after a 12-5 season.
This team is at 1 or 2 places.
Either the 1991 Cowboys that went 11-5 on their way to a dynasty
or
The 2009 Cowboys that went 11-5 on their descent to a pack of mediocre and below average seasons.
I think this team is in the first category. I don't think they are on their last hurrah.
The offensive line has got to be improved. I would draft the best available offensive guard, or tackle available in one of the first two rounds. Any of the three lineman not named Zach Martin or Tyron Smith can be upgraded.
The Cowboys have a great chance to make this defense into an elite unit if they bring in the right draft picks.
If you look at this drought of playoff success the Cowboys have suffered through the past 20 years it all comes down to the defense. The Cowboys haven't really had great defenses (save for a random year here or there) since the 90's dynasties.
I'm actually excited about the direction of the defense, and the current talent that we have.
The defense was 7th in points allowed (very good), but only 19th in yards allowed (average).
That is a pure function of the Cowboys being great against bad teams, and average against the good teams.
The overall defense was good, but it was more of an opportunistic defense. It wasn't that great against the run, or in overall yardage gained.
There are a couple of holes that could be plugged in on defense including some new linebackers, safeties and cornerbacks that could take them from being pretty good, to a truly elite unit.
This team is at 1 or 2 places.
Either the 1991 Cowboys that went 11-5 on their way to a dynasty
or
The 2009 Cowboys that went 11-5 on their descent to a pack of mediocre and below average seasons.
I think this team is in the first category. I don't think they are on their last hurrah.
The offensive line has got to be improved. I would draft the best available offensive guard, or tackle available in one of the first two rounds. Any of the three lineman not named Zach Martin or Tyron Smith can be upgraded.
The Cowboys have a great chance to make this defense into an elite unit if they bring in the right draft picks.
If you look at this drought of playoff success the Cowboys have suffered through the past 20 years it all comes down to the defense. The Cowboys haven't really had great defenses (save for a random year here or there) since the 90's dynasties.
I'm actually excited about the direction of the defense, and the current talent that we have.
The defense was 7th in points allowed (very good), but only 19th in yards allowed (average).
That is a pure function of the Cowboys being great against bad teams, and average against the good teams.
The overall defense was good, but it was more of an opportunistic defense. It wasn't that great against the run, or in overall yardage gained.
There are a couple of holes that could be plugged in on defense including some new linebackers, safeties and cornerbacks that could take them from being pretty good, to a truly elite unit.
It's just the Jerry-culture that frustrates me. No doubt Mac is going to make his mistakes. No doubt there will be drama. No doubt Jerry wants the limelight. No doubt Jerry wants to do it his way.
Hire a GM and GTF away from the Cowboys!
Hire a GM and GTF away from the Cowboys!
Southlake said:
It's just the Jerry-culture that frustrates me. No doubt Mac is going to make his mistakes. No doubt there will be drama. No doubt Jerry wants the limelight. No doubt Jerry wants to do it his way.
Hire a GM and GTF away from the Cowboys!
There is zero credible intel that Jerry is doing anything like what's being suggested. The media likes to make all these crazy assumptions about what he's thinking.
Seriously, I know everyone hates on the Jones family but what in reality is the last rash or crazy move they've made? I'm thinking the craziest thing they'd do now is overpay to keep Moore and Quinn at coordinators assuming Mac wants to keep them both.
Seriously, I know everyone hates on the Jones family but what in reality is the last rash or crazy move they've made? I'm thinking the craziest thing they'd do now is overpay to keep Moore and Quinn at coordinators assuming Mac wants to keep them both.
I haven't said much since the loss... but here's one thing that just baffles the hell out of me. On the front page of their website it was revealed that Zeke played through a partially torn PCL. Respect to the man, but answer me this coaching staff:
Zeke: 12 carries
Pollard: 4 carries
Why in the heck are you giving 3 times more carries to your injured RB!?!? And don't tell me you were trying to limit Pollard because of the foot, if he's returning kick-offs you aren't limiting him. It makes no sense.
Zeke: 12 carries
Pollard: 4 carries
Why in the heck are you giving 3 times more carries to your injured RB!?!? And don't tell me you were trying to limit Pollard because of the foot, if he's returning kick-offs you aren't limiting him. It makes no sense.
jr15aggie said:
I haven't said much since the loss... but here's one thing that just baffles the hell out of me. On the front page of their website it was revealed that Zeke played through a partially torn PCL. Respect to the man, but answer me this coaching staff:
Zeke: 12 carries
Pollard: 4 carries
Why in the heck are you giving 3 times more carries to your injured RB!?!? And don't tell me you were trying to limit Pollard because of the foot, if he's returning kick-offs you aren't limiting him. It makes no sense.
Agree 1000%. Of all the baffling things this season, this is probably the most baffling. It was clear Zeke was injured and he's a warrior so he's going to go out there no matter what. That's where the coaching staff has to step in because it was a detriment to the team. They played the lesser player just because of who he was and his contract. That's not what winning organizations do.
Really stupid coaching and usage of players, IMO. Coaching staff has done some very concerning things in the second half of the season.
100%. The fact that this operation has their QB1, Amari Cooper and CeeDee Lamb and cannot successfully find a way to make the passing game their bread and butter in situations against decent defenses like this is easily the biggest disappointment of it all. https://t.co/24jckeEa8w
— Bob Sturm (@SportsSturm) January 17, 2022
And it is a huge indictment on the football minds on staff. And also adding the pass protection breaks down in this exact spot, too. Crazy part? These thoughts carry over from QB, OC, Coach, and WR grouping, too. This is the last decade of Cowboys football.
— Bob Sturm (@SportsSturm) January 17, 2022
Bob is completely right, and I think any discussion of "McCarthy needs to go" is too short sighted and potentially removes blame from other people as well.
There needs to be a real evaluation of the full coaching staff. Where is the breakdown? Is the gameplan good and Dak just isnt executing? Is the OL so bad that it makes the plays not work, and Dak is fine? If the OL is that bad, why isnt the gameplan changed to account for it?
It could be a 'careful what you wish for' type deal, but I might be fine with parting with Kellen Moore as well. He definitely seems like a smart guy, but we had the same problems for the whole last half of the season into the playoff game.
There needs to be a real evaluation of the full coaching staff. Where is the breakdown? Is the gameplan good and Dak just isnt executing? Is the OL so bad that it makes the plays not work, and Dak is fine? If the OL is that bad, why isnt the gameplan changed to account for it?
It could be a 'careful what you wish for' type deal, but I might be fine with parting with Kellen Moore as well. He definitely seems like a smart guy, but we had the same problems for the whole last half of the season into the playoff game.
I think counting on Tyron is probably a mistake at this point.Macarthur said:birdman said:
Collins is better suited for left guard. But he's serviceable at right tackle. Cowboy offensive line has two great players, two average players, and one of the worst in NFL. Connor Williams killed 3 or 4 drives last night singlehandedly. He'd give up a big sack, big penalty, or get the running back blown up on 1st and 10. It wasn't that he got beat, at times it was like he wasn't on the field. Just a free rush to quarterback. He was just inept. And it gets in any quarterback's head, especially Dak. He gets rabbit feet and panics. He is anticipating that Williams' guy is in his face, even if Connor does his job occasionally.
Guys like Collins don't hurt you. You'd love to have five All-Pro linemen, but that's not realistic. Keep Collins, ditch Williams.
I agree that you have to keep Collins, but I think he's done at RT. He's not going to get better being one year older. They HAVE to move him in to LG.
I think you draft OT early and hope that a combination of Steele, Tyron and the draft pick can hold things down. they also drafted the Ball kid from Marshall last year and he redshirted. I haven't read anything on how they feel about him.
PatAg said:I think counting on Tyron is probably a mistake at this point.Macarthur said:birdman said:
Collins is better suited for left guard. But he's serviceable at right tackle. Cowboy offensive line has two great players, two average players, and one of the worst in NFL. Connor Williams killed 3 or 4 drives last night singlehandedly. He'd give up a big sack, big penalty, or get the running back blown up on 1st and 10. It wasn't that he got beat, at times it was like he wasn't on the field. Just a free rush to quarterback. He was just inept. And it gets in any quarterback's head, especially Dak. He gets rabbit feet and panics. He is anticipating that Williams' guy is in his face, even if Connor does his job occasionally.
Guys like Collins don't hurt you. You'd love to have five All-Pro linemen, but that's not realistic. Keep Collins, ditch Williams.
I agree that you have to keep Collins, but I think he's done at RT. He's not going to get better being one year older. They HAVE to move him in to LG.
I think you draft OT early and hope that a combination of Steele, Tyron and the draft pick can hold things down. they also drafted the Ball kid from Marshall last year and he redshirted. I haven't read anything on how they feel about him.
I don't disagree, but they don't have the cap space to fix both OT spots in one offseaon, IMO. Unless, Ball turns out to be a heck of a player.
Here's what we were talking about on one of the threads about how teams are defending Dak and the offense.
Not being able to run the ball with a gimpy Zeke killed you....this is where Pollard should have shined.
The 49ers played only a dozen snaps in man out of 73. This was mostly a game of Cover 3 and Cover 4. Teams know if they take away shot plays, Dallas will just nibble with Dalton Schultz throws and eventually a holding will end another drive. ✔️ https://t.co/u7qW2i95aa
— Bob Sturm (@SportsSturm) January 17, 2022
Not being able to run the ball with a gimpy Zeke killed you....this is where Pollard should have shined.
What a disappointing end to a season that showed some promise.
Seems the playoffs curse is alive and well. Just idiotic things like the sun in Cedric Wilson's eyes was a great comedy of errors.
49ers punched the Cowboys in the mouth and they never really recovered. Kept shooting themselves in the foot with penalties and poorly executed plays. Defense finally seemed to settle down in the 2nd quarter but the offense never seemed to be clicking.
Really disappointing. It's the playoffs, you're at home, and they came out playing extremely uninspired football. .
Seems the playoffs curse is alive and well. Just idiotic things like the sun in Cedric Wilson's eyes was a great comedy of errors.
49ers punched the Cowboys in the mouth and they never really recovered. Kept shooting themselves in the foot with penalties and poorly executed plays. Defense finally seemed to settle down in the 2nd quarter but the offense never seemed to be clicking.
Really disappointing. It's the playoffs, you're at home, and they came out playing extremely uninspired football. .
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
OL was slow, out-manned and undisciplined.......Got beat by a 4 man rush......
What used to be a strength of this team is now a weakness, along with Zeke being past his prime.
This offseason needs to be all about the OL.
What used to be a strength of this team is now a weakness, along with Zeke being past his prime.
This offseason needs to be all about the OL.
[b][raiderjay, you need to come up to the front of the bus where I can see you in this giant mirror above my steering wheel. -Staff][/b]
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AG
McCarthy is yet another head coach under the Jones regime that has had assistants assigned to him by ownership.
I don't think McCarthy is a good coach (and I was disappointed in the hire 2 years ago) but when you tell a head coach who his assistants have to be its historically been a problem especially here in Dallas.
I think any off season has to begin and end with deciding they will sign a top notch FA and supplement that with making their 1st round pick an OL too. Or at least have an open mind to that (since there's no guarantee an OL worthy of a 1 will fall to them).
You can say "blaming Jerry is the easy way out or is lazy" all you want but the numbers and results speak for themselves. There are 16 teams in the conference and for this organization with all its resources to not even get to a conference title game in 27 years is absurd. Simple probability would say they should at least get to that game. The buck stops at the top and Jerry will continue to get the blame until this team wins a title. And when Jerry passes, Stephen will get the blame too. Ownership is ultimately responsible for results.
I don't think McCarthy is a good coach (and I was disappointed in the hire 2 years ago) but when you tell a head coach who his assistants have to be its historically been a problem especially here in Dallas.
I think any off season has to begin and end with deciding they will sign a top notch FA and supplement that with making their 1st round pick an OL too. Or at least have an open mind to that (since there's no guarantee an OL worthy of a 1 will fall to them).
You can say "blaming Jerry is the easy way out or is lazy" all you want but the numbers and results speak for themselves. There are 16 teams in the conference and for this organization with all its resources to not even get to a conference title game in 27 years is absurd. Simple probability would say they should at least get to that game. The buck stops at the top and Jerry will continue to get the blame until this team wins a title. And when Jerry passes, Stephen will get the blame too. Ownership is ultimately responsible for results.
I don't think this is true. McCarthy has no one to blame but himself for hiring Nolan. That was a disaster and that's all on him. Quinn was a great hire, but it looks like he's going to move on.
I think if McCarthy had given JJ an ultimatum on Moore, JJ would have given in...I don't think Moore was forced on him.
I think if McCarthy had given JJ an ultimatum on Moore, JJ would have given in...I don't think Moore was forced on him.
I am looking forward to the day Connor Williams is no longer playing for us. We tried to hide him away at guard and he lost his spot because he actually just sucks.
Fixing the protection around Dak would go a long way but ultimately Kellen Moore isn't an elite NFL OC. Not even close. Hell I'm half convinced Moore is in that spot because Jerry wants to have another Jason Garrett story on the coaching staff.
Ultimately I just feel bad for Dak. I think he could be really effing good if a couple things around him got better but I don't think they will. We'll keep shooting ourselves in the foot over and over and over. It's what Jerry does to this team the best
Fixing the protection around Dak would go a long way but ultimately Kellen Moore isn't an elite NFL OC. Not even close. Hell I'm half convinced Moore is in that spot because Jerry wants to have another Jason Garrett story on the coaching staff.
Ultimately I just feel bad for Dak. I think he could be really effing good if a couple things around him got better but I don't think they will. We'll keep shooting ourselves in the foot over and over and over. It's what Jerry does to this team the best
Macarthur said:
I think if McCarthy had given JJ an ultimatum on Moore, JJ would have given in...I don't think Moore was forced on him.
Lmao at the idea of McCarthy having enough power or influence to give Jerry an ultimatum. If you think that's a possibility you do not understand how the cowboys truly function under Jerry
IMO Jerry will do nothing but tout the merits of his new coordinators and reaffirm his faith in Dak.
jtstanley4621 said:Macarthur said:
I think if McCarthy had given JJ an ultimatum on Moore, JJ would have given in...I don't think Moore was forced on him.
Lmao at the idea of McCarthy having enough power or influence to give Jerry an ultimatum. If you think that's a possibility you do not understand how the cowboys truly function under Jerry
I think you are looking at this through the lens of the last two years. I think when JJ hired McCarthy, he was very desperate to bring in a legitimate NFL guy. McCarthy, whatever you think of him now, won a SB and had some cred and after the parting of Garrett, I think JJ was leaning heavily on that.
I do think that if McCarthy had said I don't want Moore and I won't come, if he stays, JJ would have relented.
I saw where Tyron and Martin combined for 10 pressures allowed. You just can't win when your two best linemen play like that.
I don't think it's been mentioned but they gotta make a change at OL coach, right?
I don't think it's been mentioned but they gotta make a change at OL coach, right?
I think you're looking at it through the lens of Mike McCarthy actually being a quality, desired NFL coach. He won a super bowl a decade ago and then could never replicate the success despite having Aaron Rodgers fully in his prime. Rodgers is at worst a top 10 all time NFL QB. All you have to do in that situation is make sure the line is halfway decent and that the defense is good. Rodgers gets you the rest of the way there.
Jerry hired McCarthy because he was "name" who wouldn't do much to upset the status quo. He's not in a position to make demands of Jerry
Jerry hired McCarthy because he was "name" who wouldn't do much to upset the status quo. He's not in a position to make demands of Jerry
The terminal fault in this team was the interior OL and all the fallout from that. Most of our offensive failures (running game, penalties, inability to protect long enough to beat heavy zone coverage, etc.) can be directly or indirectly linked to our LG and C.
People who want to blame Dak, why was he able to pick heavy zones apart in 2016 as a rookie? It's because he was pressured 60% less often according to PFF.
People who want to blame Dak, why was he able to pick heavy zones apart in 2016 as a rookie? It's because he was pressured 60% less often according to PFF.
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Jerry is a salesman and he sold McCarthy on Moore being his OC(even though he probably already had given Moore the job). The problem is that the owner shouldn't be trying to sell a new coach on his coordinators.
jtstanley4621 said:
I think you're looking at it through the lens of Mike McCarthy actually being a quality, desired NFL coach. He won a super bowl a decade ago and then could never replicate the success despite having Aaron Rodgers fully in his prime. Rodgers is at worst a top 10 all time NFL QB. All you have to do in that situation is make sure the line is halfway decent and that the defense is good. Rodgers gets you the rest of the way there.
Jerry hired McCarthy because he was "name" who wouldn't do much to upset the status quo. He's not in a position to make demands of Jerry
Agree to disagree. I think there were far more football people that thought it was a solid hire than you are giving credit.
duck79 said:
Jerry is a salesman and he sold McCarthy on Moore being his OC(even though he probably already had given Moore the job). The problem is that the owner shouldn't be trying to sell a new coach on his coordinators.
There's merit to this, however bad interior OL play is the second hardest thing to overcome as an OC after bad QB play. There's just not much that can be consistently effective if your interior is getting blown up all the time. It's MUCH easier to work around a single bad tackle than multiple bad interior OL. Pressure in a QBs face and the inability to run in the A or B gaps pretty much ruins everything.
It's actually fairly remarkable we had as much offensive success as we did this year. Dak was pressured up the middle more than any NFL QB in the last 5 years if you believe the advanced stats on such things.
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I thought McCarthy used his time off after GB to study 'Football' and mastery of the game....
I guess that didn't include basic clock management and play calling.....
I guess that didn't include basic clock management and play calling.....
[b][raiderjay, you need to come up to the front of the bus where I can see you in this giant mirror above my steering wheel. -Staff][/b]
Jerry will never get over letting Sean Payton get away. So he falls in love with any decent QB coach and tries to annoint him. Seen it with Jason Garrett and now with Kellen Moore.duck79 said:
Jerry is a salesman and he sold McCarthy on Moore being his OC(even though he probably already had given Moore the job). The problem is that the owner shouldn't be trying to sell a new coach on his coordinators.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Infection_Ag11 said:duck79 said:
Jerry is a salesman and he sold McCarthy on Moore being his OC(even though he probably already had given Moore the job). The problem is that the owner shouldn't be trying to sell a new coach on his coordinators.
There's merit to this, however bad interior OL play is the second hardest thing to overcome as an OC after bad QB play. There's just not much that can be consistently effective if your interior is getting blown up all the time. It's MUCH easier to work around a single bad tackle than multiple bad interior OL. Pressure in a QBs face and the inability to run in the A or B gaps pretty much ruins everything.
It's actually fairly remarkable we had as much offensive success as we did this year. Dak was pressured up the middle more than any NFL QB in the last 5 years if you believe the advanced stats on such things.
Agree completely. That's why I think one route this offseason is to move Collins inside to LG. I think it will extend his career because since the hip thing, his feet are not what they used to be...
I think Collins, Biadasz & Martin is pretty solid up the middle. I think you draft an OT and try to squeeze another dozen or so games out of Tyron. Tyron, Steele and a draft pick should be able to hold down OT for another year.
Just throwing fuel on the fire... this team was pretty much 100% healthy for the playoffs which is so hard to do. Gallup is the only significant loss that I can think of and his replacement was actually one of our bright spots down the stretch.
What a waste of good health and what a waste of possibly the best defensive coordinator in the modern NFL.
Mike, Kellen, and the rest of the offensive staff let down the entire team. We had, in some ways, historic levels of success on defense and on special teams.... and the offense absolutely rolled over and died. Denver showed the NFL how to stop us and there were zero adjustments made by the coaching staff in over 2 months. Pathetic!
What a waste of good health and what a waste of possibly the best defensive coordinator in the modern NFL.
Mike, Kellen, and the rest of the offensive staff let down the entire team. We had, in some ways, historic levels of success on defense and on special teams.... and the offense absolutely rolled over and died. Denver showed the NFL how to stop us and there were zero adjustments made by the coaching staff in over 2 months. Pathetic!
I hope the FO is able to accurately assess the Oline and the offensive coaching staff in general. It sounds crazy since we just led the league in scoring. But its pretty clear that teams with elite interior DTs destroyed us. We either need to upgrade the linemen or the OL coach.jr15aggie said:
Just throwing fuel on the fire... this team was pretty much 100% healthy for the playoffs which is so hard to do. Gallup is the only significant loss that I can think of and his replacement was actually one of our bright spots down the stretch.
What a waste of good health and what a waste of possibly the best defensive coordinator in the modern NFL.
Mike, Kellen, and the rest of the offensive staff let down the entire team. We had, in some ways, historic levels of success on defense and on special teams.... and the offense absolutely rolled over and died. Denver showed the NFL how to stop us and there were zero adjustments made by the coaching staff in over 2 months. Pathetic!
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