Then surely they'll be able to show us if anyone entered/exited Epstein's cell around the time of death, no?aggiehawg said:LINKQuote:
There's no surveillance video of the incident during which Jeffrey Epstein apparently hanged himself in a federal lockup in Lower Manhattan, law-enforcement officials told The Post on Sunday.
Although there are cameras in the 9 South wingwhere the convicted pedophile was being held at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, they are trained on the areas outside the cells and not inside, according to sources familiar with the setup there.
Pols who attended Sunday's annual Dominican Day Parade in Manhattan demanded answers to the many questions surrounding Epstein's Saturday morning death, which is being investigated by the FBI and the Justice Department.
"Something doesn't smell right and it's not his dead body," Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams said.
Jeffrey Epstein Arrested For Sex Trafficking of Minors
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Ervin Burrell said:Then surely they'll be able to show us if anyone entered/exited Epstein's cell around the time of death, no?aggiehawg said:LINKQuote:
There's no surveillance video of the incident during which Jeffrey Epstein apparently hanged himself in a federal lockup in Lower Manhattan, law-enforcement officials told The Post on Sunday.
Although there are cameras in the 9 South wingwhere the convicted pedophile was being held at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, they are trained on the areas outside the cells and not inside, according to sources familiar with the setup there.
Pols who attended Sunday's annual Dominican Day Parade in Manhattan demanded answers to the many questions surrounding Epstein's Saturday morning death, which is being investigated by the FBI and the Justice Department.
"Something doesn't smell right and it's not his dead body," Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams said.
No, because there were supposed "camera malfunctions" at the time he supposedly hung himself.
where are you seeing this?Quote:
No, because there were supposed "camera malfunctions" at the time he supposedly hung himself.
Under what FRE? None of the other hearsay exceptions appear to apply.aggiehawg said:Not necessarily. If the defendant is one of his co-conspirators they could be admissible.Quote:
Unless the diaries contain statements against interest, i.e. confessions of commission of a crime, no chance those diaries see the inside of a courtroom in any criminal case. Releasing them publicly has much greater value.
Sarge 91 said:Unless the diaries contain statements against interest, i.e. confessions of commission of a crime, no chance those diaries see the inside of a courtroom in any criminal case. Releasing them publicly has much greater value.drcrinum said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9702330/jeffrey-epstein-diaries-donald-trump-clinton/Quote:
JEFFREY Epstein kept "meticulously detailed" diaries of his friendships which could come back to haunt his powerful pals, reports claim.
The billionaire paedo, who died from an apparent suicide on Saturday, was once friends with Prince Andrew, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.
He is understood to have kept a secret diary detailing his friendships with the rich and famous as an "insurance policy", according to the Mirror.....
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/jeffrey-epsteins-secret-diaries-threaten-18909521Quote:
.....
A source revealed: "All Jeff ever had he bought, including his friends.
"He used his wealth to buy buddies and then bestow his money on those he courted.
"Jeff knew his relationships with the rich and famous brought him protection.
"He kept a diary in meticulous detail in case he ever needed it......
You don't destroy the rich and powerful in a court room. You destroy them in the media. Using salacious and grotesque rumors and recounted stories.
This story is so similar to the SyFy show "Happy!" It is actually more disturbing that this is real life.
That's why I said this: Releasing them publicly has much greater value.fightingfarmer09 said:Sarge 91 said:Unless the diaries contain statements against interest, i.e. confessions of commission of a crime, no chance those diaries see the inside of a courtroom in any criminal case. Releasing them publicly has much greater value.drcrinum said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9702330/jeffrey-epstein-diaries-donald-trump-clinton/Quote:
JEFFREY Epstein kept "meticulously detailed" diaries of his friendships which could come back to haunt his powerful pals, reports claim.
The billionaire paedo, who died from an apparent suicide on Saturday, was once friends with Prince Andrew, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.
He is understood to have kept a secret diary detailing his friendships with the rich and famous as an "insurance policy", according to the Mirror.....
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/jeffrey-epsteins-secret-diaries-threaten-18909521Quote:
.....
A source revealed: "All Jeff ever had he bought, including his friends.
"He used his wealth to buy buddies and then bestow his money on those he courted.
"Jeff knew his relationships with the rich and famous brought him protection.
"He kept a diary in meticulous detail in case he ever needed it......
You don't destroy the rich and powerful in a court room. You destroy them in the media. Using salacious and grotesque rumors and recounted stories.
No sense holding them back for criminal case prosecution. Release them now (assuming these were obtained in the raid on his NY apartment).
Fed. R. Evid. 801(d)(2)(E)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-epstein-former-cellmate-apparent-suicide-attempt
Wonder how these two wound up together. Steroid filled ex-cop accused of murder.
Wonder how these two wound up together. Steroid filled ex-cop accused of murder.
That's why you are the best!aggiehawg said:
Fed. R. Evid. 801(d)(2)(E)
they will try under 801, but will have problems on "in furtherance of"
the diary would have to be a part of the conspiracy, not just about the conspiracy.
without knowing whats in it, no way to know if it would be admissible or not.
HOWEVER, it can be used to investigate the others without any problems.
the diary would have to be a part of the conspiracy, not just about the conspiracy.
without knowing whats in it, no way to know if it would be admissible or not.
HOWEVER, it can be used to investigate the others without any problems.
Well, if it hadn't come up in the recent case against Flynn's former business partner, I wouldn't have known that particular rule number off of the top of my head.Sarge 91 said:That's why you are the best!aggiehawg said:
Fed. R. Evid. 801(d)(2)(E)
Rush just said leading into a commercial "I wonder if Jeffrey Epstein would still be alive if he had a Simply Safe Security System in his cell? With full HD cameras mountable on anything you can hang yourself on." .
That's why I said "could" be admissible instead of "would" be admissible.BMX Bandit said:
they will try under 801, but will have problems on "in furtherance of"
the diary would have to be a part of the conspiracy, not just about the conspiracy.
without knowing whats in it, no way to know if it would be admissible or not.
HOWEVER, it can be used to investigate the others without any problems.
But considering the diaries were created for purposes of protection of the sex trafficking ring, I would expect a judge to say they were prepared "in furtherance of." At least that is what I would argue.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7349729/Dozen-FBI-agents-raid-Jeffrey-Epsteins-Pedophile-Island.html
Quote:
EXCLUSIVE: A dozen FBI agents raid Jeffrey Epstein's 'Pedophile Island', pulling up to his Caribbean getaway in speedboats and roaming the grounds in golf carts, two days after pervert billionaire's suicide
- FBI agents were seen raiding Jeffrey Epstein's US Virgin Island - Little St. James - on Monday morning and afternoon, exclusive DailyMailTV footage shows
- At least a dozen agents were seen disembarking speedboats at the pier and driving around the 71.5 acre grounds on golf carts
- Other officials with 'FBI' lettering on clear display were later seen overlooking the sea from the top of Epstein's remote luxury home
- The raid comes two days after the 66-year-old was found dead by suicide in his New York jail cell early on Saturday morning
- An onlooker told DailyMailTV: 'I'm on a boat charter with guests. We were enjoying lunch when we saw over a dozen people landing on the island'.....
Weird how we can mobilize this kind of manpower to a remote location so quickly but we can't watch a guy that is in an already staffed jail?drcrinum said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7349729/Dozen-FBI-agents-raid-Jeffrey-Epsteins-Pedophile-Island.htmlQuote:
EXCLUSIVE: A dozen FBI agents raid Jeffrey Epstein's 'Pedophile Island', pulling up to his Caribbean getaway in speedboats and roaming the grounds in golf carts, two days after pervert billionaire's suicide
- FBI agents were seen raiding Jeffrey Epstein's US Virgin Island - Little St. James - on Monday morning and afternoon, exclusive DailyMailTV footage shows
- At least a dozen agents were seen disembarking speedboats at the pier and driving around the 71.5 acre grounds on golf carts
- Other officials with 'FBI' lettering on clear display were later seen overlooking the sea from the top of Epstein's remote luxury home
- The raid comes two days after the 66-year-old was found dead by suicide in his New York jail cell early on Saturday morning
- An onlooker told DailyMailTV: 'I'm on a boat charter with guests. We were enjoying lunch when we saw over a dozen people landing on the island'.....
Do they actually think there is anything left there? Give me a break. What a waste of time and money
Cepe said:
Do they actually think there is anything left there? Give me a break. What a waste of time and money
Really? Yeah, let's just not look.
Dude still had a message table and underage girls pics at his NY apartment, so who the hell knowsCepe said:
Do they actually think there is anything left there? Give me a break. What a waste of time and money
AgInTheColony said:Cepe said:
Do they actually think there is anything left there? Give me a break. What a waste of time and money
Really? Yeah, let's just not look.
If anyone in law enforcement really gave a damn this would have been done long ago. They know all eyes are on them since they routinely frick things up. This looks like it is all for show.
Wake me up when they have one of his co-conspirators in an actual perp walk.
Cuterebra said:AgInTheColony said:Cepe said:
Do they actually think there is anything left there? Give me a break. What a waste of time and money
Really? Yeah, let's just not look.
If anyone in law enforcement really gave a damn this would have been done long ago. They know all eyes are on them since they routinely frick things up. This looks like it is all for show.
Wake me up when they have one of his co-conspirators in an actual perp walk.
I'm not a lawyer, but maybe there was a legal reason they couldn't until he was dead? Don't know. I was only responding to the point that it likely not a waste to take a look, not when it's done.
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drcrinum said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7349729/Dozen-FBI-agents-raid-Jeffrey-Epsteins-Pedophile-Island.htmlQuote:
EXCLUSIVE: A dozen FBI agents raid Jeffrey Epstein's 'Pedophile Island', pulling up to his Caribbean getaway in speedboats and roaming the grounds in golf carts, two days after pervert billionaire's suicide
- FBI agents were seen raiding Jeffrey Epstein's US Virgin Island - Little St. James - on Monday morning and afternoon, exclusive DailyMailTV footage shows
- At least a dozen agents were seen disembarking speedboats at the pier and driving around the 71.5 acre grounds on golf carts
- Other officials with 'FBI' lettering on clear display were later seen overlooking the sea from the top of Epstein's remote luxury home
- The raid comes two days after the 66-year-old was found dead by suicide in his New York jail cell early on Saturday morning
- An onlooker told DailyMailTV: 'I'm on a boat charter with guests. We were enjoying lunch when we saw over a dozen people landing on the island'.....
ummm...what the hell took so long?
also, a dozen folks for that island seems a little on the low side, right? considering what reportedly took place there?
I'm not a lawyer either, but I doubt it would have been tough for the FBI to get a warrant to raid the private island of a convicted pedophile. If (big if) they wanted to.
Either they don't really care or he is a CIA asset of some sort. Regardless I don't make much of the flashy "raid" at this point. It looks like a bunch of amateurs filming a tv show.
Either they don't really care or he is a CIA asset of some sort. Regardless I don't make much of the flashy "raid" at this point. It looks like a bunch of amateurs filming a tv show.
SWAT raid for Roger Stone.
Gotta wait until the pedo dies before raiding his sex island...
Gotta wait until the pedo dies before raiding his sex island...
It's more likely that they were there to destroy evidence rather than to collect and preserve it.
Optimistically, this could be in response to a dead man's insurance policy. The FBI May have gotten a call or come into possession of some documents.
Although the timing of this raid seems odd, it probably was just a result of the FBI having to sift through the evidence they obtained from his NY mansion. Further, without knowing if there were private security guards that were armed, etc. They would have interviewed current and past employees first. Used drone surveillance in the meantime.
Then the court docs (from the civil case) drop on Friday, the FBI has had a chance to find evidence that the island housed other evidence (from the materials seized in Manhattan) and the interviews. Epstein was arrested barely a month ago. That's actually pretty fast for the FBI.
But the real point here is that after he's dead, there is no one to object to the propriety of the search and be able to exclude evidence from it. A get-outta-jail-free card for the FBI if i's are dotted nor all of the t's crossed.
Then the court docs (from the civil case) drop on Friday, the FBI has had a chance to find evidence that the island housed other evidence (from the materials seized in Manhattan) and the interviews. Epstein was arrested barely a month ago. That's actually pretty fast for the FBI.
But the real point here is that after he's dead, there is no one to object to the propriety of the search and be able to exclude evidence from it. A get-outta-jail-free card for the FBI if i's are dotted nor all of the t's crossed.
It's a shame we can't even trust what the FBI is doing anymore. Nor trust their motives.
Rockdoc said:
It's a shame we can't even trust what the FBI is doing anymore. Nor trust their motives.
Actually we should never have trusted them and their motives have always been ambivalent toward the American people.
Quote:
Jeffrey Epstein was found hanging in his Lower Manhattan jail cell with a bedsheet wrapped around his neck and secured to the top of a bunk bed, The Post has learned.
The convicted pedophile, who was 6 feet tall, apparently killed himself by kneeling toward the floor and strangling himself with the makeshift noose, a law enforcement source said Monday.....
Here's something (a speculation on my part) to think about:
The problem facing the NYC Medical Examiner may not be the cause of death, but the manner of death. There are three scenarios given this limited info:
(A) He intentionally hanged himself = suicide.
(B) It was a faked suicide made to look like a hanging = homicide.
(C) His death was a result of autoerotic sexual asphyxia = accidental death.
I've seen unsubstantiated comments from sources saying the ME was certain that hanging was the cause of death; that would make (B) extremely unlikely.
Was it (A)? Well, I've seen discussions that his case eventually may have been thrown out because of double jeopardy. However, he was certainly under a lot of stress & may have thought that he was going to be locked up forever...& pedophiles don't fare very well in penitentiaries. So fairly high probability.
How about (C)? Well, this dude certainly had some sex hangups. There are circa a thousand (probably more as often these are hidden from the public) such deaths a year in the US, so it's not unusual or uncommon. Kneeling with a noose about the neck would fit this pattern. An important death scene finding though ought to help cast light on this scenario -- was he naked from the waist down & was there a pile of semen on the floor?
The medical examiner is probably very confident it was suicide, but he/she has to wait for the toxicology report to come back. In a high profile case, he/she can't jump to conclusion without all possible a glee looked over. Their examination of the body is complete, only waiting on toxicology to see if there were any drugs involved, which would lead one to believe murder instead of suicide.
The reason I think this is ultimately suicide, he already tried it once. If it was someone else trying to kill him he would have spoke up. The fact he didn't means it was his own attempt at suicide. This was his second attempt and he succeeded.
The reason I think this is ultimately suicide, he already tried it once. If it was someone else trying to kill him he would have spoke up. The fact he didn't means it was his own attempt at suicide. This was his second attempt and he succeeded.
One report said he was "fisted" by the guys that get child rapist ...
I would think the autopsy would find this out also?
i seriously doubt that would happen. there is enough evidence out there that he violated the terms of his plea deal (cush jobs for florida feds after getting off, possessing child porn in his home at the time of his most recent arrest, etc).Quote:
Well, I've seen discussions that his case eventually may have been thrown out because of double jeopardy.
Even if they couldn't get him on the original charges, there's tampering with witnesses, violating parole, and possibly new people/cases coming forward.
Andrew McCarthy thinks the SDNY is skating on thin ice regarding double jeopardy.TexasAggie_02 said:i seriously doubt that would happen. there is enough evidence out there that he violated the terms of his plea deal (cush jobs for florida feds after getting off, possessing child porn in his home at the time of his most recent arrest, etc).Quote:
Well, I've seen discussions that his case eventually may have been thrown out because of double jeopardy.
Even if they couldn't get him on the original charges, there's tampering with witnesses, violating parole, and possibly new people/cases coming forward.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-case-double-jeopardy-rules/
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