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Jeffrey Epstein's former Wall Street mentor says the financier's coziness with former President Bill Clinton "absolutely" led to his ruin.

"The Clinton relationship destroyed Jeffrey Epstein and did not help Clinton. Because that was his first major high-profile relationship, and he enjoyed the media pizzazz, not understanding it and letting his ego be inflated by being put in articles next to a former president of the United States," Steven Hoffenberg told Observer. "That raised his pridefulness enormously. It inflated his ego That changed him."

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Hoffenberg's Tower Financial Corporation hired Epstein in the 1980s for $25,000 per month, though the two split in the years before the former pleaded guilty to defrauding investors in a massive Ponzi scheme.

In 2002, Hoffenberg told reporter Vicky Ward in an interview from prison that Epstein's courtship of Clinton would draw attention to his business ventures, and the investor would be best served flying "below the radar."

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LOL. His mentor is in prison for running a Ponzi scheme and Bill Clinton was Epstein's downfall? That's rich.

LINK

aggiehawg said:

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I am sure there was a ton of back scratching that went on amongst that crowd.

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Among other "itches" being "scratched."

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lol true. And if the girls were underage, I hope they put all the *******s in prison.

biobioprof said:

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aggiehawg said:

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agent-maroon said:

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He said that Epstein burst upon the Manhattan social scene with a ton of money of questionable origins. He went on to say he's wasn't implying that his wealth came from illegal activities but was of a murky appearance.

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Then what is he saying exactly? Big money doesn't just show up in your checking account. You're born with it, have some sort of business presence, win a big lawsuit, or have some visible means of legally accumulating great wealth that the other big richies could at least have seen coming.

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That's why it caught my attention. I had always heard he was a hedge fund manager, not exactly a low profile kind of occupation even if based out of the US. They all know each other, at least by name.

Then again, this was coming from a regular guest on Morning Blow so it just may have been a deflection, distancing type of statement in an attempt to paint those who were brought into Epstein's circle as somehow being duped or snookered by him. (of course, that type of argument could also be applied to Trump but Dems aren't too smart when they are in defense mode.)

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Limited partner at Bear Stearns by 1980 is sudden money by the time this stuff happened? He wasn't just a perv, he was a math whiz and per wikipedia was hired at Bear Stearns to do options to work in special products and give tax advice to rich clients. That was before he started his own firm in 1982.

My impression from past coverage is that he was a really interesting guy even if you weren't interested in underage girls. He was compared to the teacher in Dead Poets Society when he was teaching HS math and physics. People can be monsters and charming at the same time. The latter often helps their success at the former. Some might describe Bill Clinton the same way.

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I saw one article that claimed that he didn't have a degree. I find that is difficult to believe since just about any high school is probably going to require a degree.

aggiehawg said:

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I find it amusing that the talking points today are everyone running away from Epstein as some shadowy guy they never really knew yet here you are defending him. (Well not defending his alleged crimes, just is provenance.)

Now do Ghislaine Maxwell and her father.

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You know I'm a contrarian! Just saying that he didn't get rich initially on blackmail (although it occurs to me just now that maybe that private school had more opportunities than I had considered previously). Blackmail could have been useful to get even richer in addition to staying out of prison, though.

Robert Maxwell's scams didn't come to light until after his death in 1991. I didn't realize until reading his wikipedia page that he was the model for the Bond villain in Tomorrow Never Dies.

Ghislaine in some ways is like his connection to Bill C and the scientists. British socialite man-eater who is a friend of Prince Andrew and attends Chelsea's wedding. The insiders in Epstein's circle got status points for being at things with her and who she could bring, even without the teenage girls. And rich Brits being pervs is almost a cliche!

The whole thing is kind of a Ponzi scheme of social status.

Which means the other funny thing to me is that as I read more about Epstein and his friends, it makes me think Trump is less likely to be in the danger zone. Because this is the socialite inner circle he was notorious for wanting to be part of but was never classy enough to really join. The Epstein types were happy to use him but not let him on the jet or invite him to the best parties. It would not shock me if what ultimately exonerates Trump is that he was lying about Epstein being a friend the way he lied about sleeping with Carla Bruni.

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he was notorious for wanting to be part of but was never classy enough to really join

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He does seem like that type.

I'll bet Hillary has been wailing on bill the last few days both verbally and physically. Can't imagine she's not going to jump his **** again.

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You know I'm a contrarian! Just saying that he didn't get rich initially on blackmail (although it occurs to me just now that maybe that private school had more opportunities than I had considered previously). Blackmail could have been useful to get even richer in addition to staying out of prison, though.

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I actually didn't believe Epstein's wealth came from blackmail or the threat of blackmail but that it was his protection.

No doubt the guy is a math genius and rose quickly in the profession but still defies logic just how wealthy, how fast.

Is there a possibility that at some point he became an unwitting agent of a foreign power? That is what is intriguing to me about his very close and long term relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell. Given her father's supposed ties to the Mossad. Fun to speculate of course but the emerging narrative from the Dems that Epstein was some type of cloak and dagger figure appearing out of nowhere just fuels that speculation.

Throw in Bill's penchant for much younger women (Monica) and it's just too juicy to resist.

Hey Nav said:

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The John Adams represented the English redcoats who were acquitted of the Boston Massacre.

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Yes. Very very similar circumstances. Troops who were following orders. Feared for their lives.

Epstein feared for his life, and thus needed to sodomize minors. Needed support of others and flew them in to do likewise.

John Adams. Ken Starr. No difference at all...

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Side note, ever seen the HBO documentary John Adams with Paul Giamatti?

It's excellent. I remember this part of it.

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Bill Clinton office claims he only took four (4) trips on Epstein's jet.

The flight records show at least twenty-six (26)

No wonder Democrats pushed common-core math.

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Epstein had two jets, only one capable of transoceanic flight. Those flight logs reflect take-offs and landings, including those for refueling and return trips.

aggiehawg said:

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He likely dealt with some very, very high dollar folks and took them with him when he went out on his own.

That is not to say he didn't arrange things (parties and such) and gathered incriminating information on people who felt compelled to remain his client. I know of one contractor (client of a guy I worked for) who in the 60's and 70's did just that. He had a large ranch in South Texas and regularly took elected officials (county commissioners, etc.) to the ranch where (I heard) quite a few wild parties occurred and he provided the females. He, of course, got a lot of county work.

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There's only one problem here. Other than Les Wexner (Victoria's Secrets guy) no one else has ever admitted to being his clients. Wouldn't his investment accounts have suffered a sudden loss of a ton of money during the first case?

And while I'm on this subject, I too have known some very wealthy people who have wined and dined a lot of people. Normally such largesse leads up to an eventual pitch to invest with them or something. After the 4th or sixth jet ride, wouldn't Bill wonder what was in it for Epstein?

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I think Slick knew exactly what was in it for Epstein - and as long as he was getting massages with happy endings and a never ending supply of free trips, he didn't care one bit. Not like Bill has ever been high on anything approaching morals. He's been untouchable since his days as governor in Arkansas, nothing was going to change that, just that the perks of being an ex-president were way better.

aggiehawg said:

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You know I'm a contrarian! Just saying that he didn't get rich initially on blackmail (although it occurs to me just now that maybe that private school had more opportunities than I had considered previously). Blackmail could have been useful to get even richer in addition to staying out of prison, though.

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I actually didn't believe Epstein's wealth came from blackmail or the threat of blackmail but that it was his protection.

No doubt the guy is a math genius and rose quickly in the profession but still defies logic just how wealthy, how fast.

Is there a possibility that at some point he became an unwitting agent of a foreign power? That is what is intriguing to me about his very close and long term relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell. Given her father's supposed ties to the Mossad. Fun to speculate of course but the emerging narrative from the Dems that Epstein was some type of cloak and dagger figure appearing out of nowhere just fuels that speculation.

Throw in Bill's penchant for much younger women (Monica) and it's just too juicy to resist.

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From the infamous Vanity Fair piece
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/03/jeffrey-epstein-200303

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Epstein is known about town as a man who loves women - lots of them, mostly young. Model types have been heard saying they are full of gratitude to Epstein for flying them around, and he is a familiar face to many of the Victoria's Secret girls. One young woman recalls being summoned by Ghislaine Maxwell to a concert at Epstein's town house, where the women seemed to outnumber the men by far. "These were not women you'd see at Upper East Side dinners," the woman recalls. "Many seemed foreign and dressed a little bizarrely." This same guest also attended a cocktail party thrown by Maxwell that Prince Andrew attended, which was filled, she says, with young Russian models. "Some of the guests were horrified," the woman says.

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Maybe Ghislaine is a KGB mole. Oxford had its share of those, IIRC.

schmellba99 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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He likely dealt with some very, very high dollar folks and took them with him when he went out on his own.

That is not to say he didn't arrange things (parties and such) and gathered incriminating information on people who felt compelled to remain his client. I know of one contractor (client of a guy I worked for) who in the 60's and 70's did just that. He had a large ranch in South Texas and regularly took elected officials (county commissioners, etc.) to the ranch where (I heard) quite a few wild parties occurred and he provided the females. He, of course, got a lot of county work.

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There's only one problem here. Other than Les Wexner (Victoria's Secrets guy) no one else has ever admitted to being his clients. Wouldn't his investment accounts have suffered a sudden loss of a ton of money during the first case?

And while I'm on this subject, I too have known some very wealthy people who have wined and dined a lot of people. Normally such largesse leads up to an eventual pitch to invest with them or something. After the 4th or sixth jet ride, wouldn't Bill wonder what was in it for Epstein?

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I think Slick knew exactly what was in it for Epstein - and as long as he was getting massages with happy endings and a never ending supply of free trips, he didn't care one bit. Not like Bill has ever been high on anything approaching morals. He's been untouchable since his days as governor in Arkansas, nothing was going to change that, just that the perks of being an ex-president were way better.

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Agreed. Bill has been involved in extremely reckless sexual behavior his entire time in politics and beyond

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Maybe Ghislaine is a KGB mole. Oxford had its share of those, IIRC.

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Welcome to the rabbit hole!

No, seriously Clinton's denial of knowing Epstein that well truly defies logic and the reporting of the era. Bill loved to talk p**** with Vernon Jordan, according to Jordan.

LINK

Epstein was surrounding himself with beautiful women and girls and Clinton and Epstein never discussed it? Come on, man! That's laughable.

I don't want to derail the thread, but:

If you ever want to go farther down the rabbit hole.

Go through the names in his black book.

The first one is in word format, the second is the scanned copy (embedded in the webpage)

http://www.jar2.com/topics/Epstein_Pedo_Black_Book.html

https://gawker.com/here-is-pedophile-billionaire-jeffrey-epsteins-little-b-1681383992

There are quite a few that have ties to some strange deaths.

One entry for Cheryl Mills w/ 202 area code (Washington DC)

Tons of ties to British Royals.

After a few hours of using the google, this guy is connected as they come, or at least it would appear that way.

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The Justice Department clarified Tuesday that Attorney General Bill Barr will not recuse himself from the Jeffrey Epstein case, despite Barr saying a day earlier that he planned to due to his past legal work.

Barr, during a visit to South Carolina on Monday, was asked whether he planned to get involved in the Epstein case, which involves accusations the 66-year-old hedge fund manager preyed on "dozens" of underage victimssome as young as 14. He has pleaded not guilty to sex trafficking.

"I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm I subsequently joined for a period of time," Barr told reporters.

Barr joined the law firm Kirkland & Ellis in 2009, which had represented Epstein during a separate case against him in 2008.

But a Justice Department official told Fox News on Tuesday that after consulting with career ethics officials, Barr will not recuse himself from the current case being led by the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of New York. The attorney general, though, will remain recused from any "retrospective review" of the 2008 case.

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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ag-barr-says-he-will-not-recuse-himself-from-epstein-case-despite-initial-comments

Libs better shuffle the deck for a new talking point stat!

I don't think Trump has talk to this guy in years either, made the quote that they're all salivating about 17 years ago and even banned the guy from his estate, but funny how the left won't care about that.

However, if they truly think they can get Trump on this, which they can't, I believe at this point they're willing to sacrifice Bill. Somewhat reluctantly but I think they would.

Looks like dumbass Ellen Barkin has inserted herself into this but of course now she's playing the victim.

Then follows with this after being attacked.

She has also called all Trump supporters the worst, and right of Nazis.

This drop is about Barr and his recusal being limited.

Wouldn't the issue in Barr's case is about possibly having privileged information by virtue of working at a law firm that defended Epstein earlier. I don't know how much lawyers at a firm talk about past cases, but it is conceivable that he might know things tat are privileged.

Now, there are new issues now that weren't issues then and so Barr wouldn't have any privileged information about them. For example, the cds full of pictures of naked minors. He could be involved in such prosecutions over the new matters without violating privilege on what little he might know of the previous defense.

Vintage Georgie. He sounds like a smurf.

SIAP, but I had missed this detail

Ellen Barkin's career peaked when she appeared as 'unnamed woman playing guitar' in Cheech and Chong's Up in Smoke in the late 70's

annie88 said:

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Looks like dumbass Ellen Barkin has inserted herself into this but of course now she's playing the victim.

Then follows with this after being attacked.

She has also called all Trump supporters the worst, and right of Nazis.

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This is a much more direct claim that she reported it

biobioprof said:

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SIAP, but I had missed this detail

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Dude has got to be the dumbest mofo around

I understand that rape is about power. If so, then assault on a small and under age person of any sex must be about the ultimate power trip, in the most heinous way.

ETA. UNDER AGE. There's nothing against people copulating with people that are considered small. Sorry.

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Epstein's name, I was told, had been raised by the Trump transition team when Alexander Acosta, the former U.S. attorney in Miami who'd infamously cut Epstein a non-prosecution plea deal back in 2007, was being interviewed for the job of labor secretary. The plea deal put a hard stop to a separate federal investigation of alleged sex crimes with minors and trafficking.

"Is the Epstein case going to cause a problem [for confirmation hearings]?" Acosta had been asked. Acosta had explained, breezily, apparently, that back in the day he'd had just one meeting on the Epstein case. He'd cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein's attorneys because he had "been told" to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. "I was told Epstein 'belonged to intelligence' and to leave it alone," he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta. (The Labor Department had no comment when asked about this.)

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https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epsteins-sick-story-played-out-for-years-in-plain-sight