****Cowboys 2016 Offseason Thread***

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6:08p, 1/21/16
AG
Agree. Very doubtful on QB.

One of the players historically i wanted most to A&M on the recruiting trail was Mackensie Alexander. I was obsessed w the dude during the recruiting process because i had never seen tape like his. He lived up to the hype at Clemson and didn't allow a TD for 2 yrs.

It would be crazy if he didn't make it to my favorite college team but instead did make it to my favorite pro team.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 6:22p, 1/21/16
quote:
without a doubt by draft time they'll hype him up to be a top 10 player and some poor team will jump on him. Pray it aint the cowboys.


Same thing happened with that Flacco kid out of Delaware.
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 8:02p, 1/21/16
For every 1 you can name that panned out I bet you can find 5-10 that didnt.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 8:17a, 1/22/16
quote:
For every 1 you can name that panned out I bet you can find 5-10 that didnt.


Truth be told, I can't name ten FCS quarterbacks that have been drafted in the modern era of football. Flacco and McNair were high draft picks, but other than that, guys like Romo and Warner had to work their way in. If you want to go way back, Doug Williams and Phil Simms were both first round FCS picks. In fact, after looking it up, those are the four FCS quarterbacks that were drafted in the 1st Round: Williams, McNair, Simms, and Flacco. All of them won Super Bowls except McNair, who lost his by one yard. FCS first round QBs have had amazing success in the NFL.
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 8:24a, 1/22/16
Im not talking about FCS quarterbacks. Im talking about QBs that got a huge lift b/n the last college game and the draft bc teams really need a qb. Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, etc

Sorry for the confusion.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 9:40a, 1/22/16
quote:
Im not talking about FCS quarterbacks. Im talking about QBs that got a huge lift b/n the last college game and the draft bc teams really need a qb. Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, etc

Sorry for the confusion.


Add Flacco to that list.

Also, there is a difference there. The casual viewer could tell that guys like Ponder and Manuel weren't any good and that Flacco and McNair were talents. I went to the same high school as Christian Ponder. He wasn't any good in high school. He wasn't any good in college. It stood to reason that he wouldn't be any good in the NFL. If you want to compare someone in this draft to Ponder or Manuel, it would be Hackenberg or Cardale Jones. Hackenberg has been terrible, but will probably jump up draft boards. We need to pray to the gods that Dallas doesn't take him. The Top 3 QBs in this draft all have excellent potential and there is now chatter that Wentz may be the first quarterback off the board before Dallas gets to pick. Wentz is also an Academic All American.

The QB position is always a risk as they tend to jump up draft boards due to need. In '87 there was a large contingent of the sports media who were upset the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman over Tony Mandarich, who was considered the "greatest offensive line prospect ever" at the time.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 9:46a, 1/22/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Im not talking about FCS quarterbacks. Im talking about QBs that got a huge lift b/n the last college game and the draft bc teams really need a qb. Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, etc

Sorry for the confusion.


Add Flacco to that list.

Also, there is a difference there. The casual viewer could tell that guys like Ponder and Manuel weren't any good and that Flacco and McNair were talents. I went to the same high school as Christian Ponder. He wasn't any good in high school. He wasn't any good in college. It stood to reason that he wouldn't be any good in the NFL. If you want to compare someone in this draft to Ponder or Manuel, it would be Hackenberg or Cardale Jones. Hackenberg has been terrible, but will probably jump up draft boards. We need to pray to the gods that Dallas doesn't take him.
Add Tanny to that list of guys who were average at best in college but wowed everyone in the pre-draft process. You see it every year and history is littered with those guys. Unfortunately, being good in college is just as unreliable as a measuring stick.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Ag Natural • 10:00a, 1/22/16
quote:
quote:
quote:
Im not talking about FCS quarterbacks. Im talking about QBs that got a huge lift b/n the last college game and the draft bc teams really need a qb. Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, etc

Sorry for the confusion.


Add Flacco to that list.

Also, there is a difference there. The casual viewer could tell that guys like Ponder and Manuel weren't any good and that Flacco and McNair were talents. I went to the same high school as Christian Ponder. He wasn't any good in high school. He wasn't any good in college. It stood to reason that he wouldn't be any good in the NFL. If you want to compare someone in this draft to Ponder or Manuel, it would be Hackenberg or Cardale Jones. Hackenberg has been terrible, but will probably jump up draft boards. We need to pray to the gods that Dallas doesn't take him.
Add Tanny to that list of guys who were average at best in college but wowed everyone in the pre-draft process. You see it every year and history is littered with those guys. Unfortunately, being good in college is just as unreliable as a measuring stick.


Agreed, but, again, the casual observer could tell that Tannehill had big issues and would've benefitted from sitting for a year or two. Most experts didn't have him going in the first round and the Dolphins were excoriated for that move.

If you look at the major weaknesses of this crop of QBs:

Goff - Spread offense; lacks ideal upper body build.

Lynch - Shaky footwork, drawn out throwing motion, competition, spread offense

Wentz - Competition, tendency to hold the ball too long

None of those are huge red flags. For example, look at:

Tannehill - Lacks experience at position, interceptions (Round 2)

Manuel - poor accuracy, one read passer, poor footwork, uncomfortable in the pocket (Round 3-4)

Ponder - lacks awareness, poor decision making, poor downfield passer, inability to read disguised defenses. (Round 2-3)

The noticeable difference here is that the 2016 crop of QBs are all projected first rounders. Many thought Wentz might slide to the early 2nd Round, but that doesn't look to be the case now (ala Flacco). The other quarterbacks mentioned were taken WAY too high by a full round or more. Even before hindsight, those were thought to be poor draft picks.

Again, nothing is for certain, but Dallas is unlikely to have an opportunity like this for the next decade+.
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 10:12a, 1/22/16
quote:
quote:
Im not talking about FCS quarterbacks. Im talking about QBs that got a huge lift b/n the last college game and the draft bc teams really need a qb. Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, etc

Sorry for the confusion.


Add Flacco to that list.

Also, there is a difference there. The casual viewer could tell that guys like Ponder and Manuel weren't any good and that Flacco and McNair were talents. I went to the same high school as Christian Ponder. He wasn't any good in high school. He wasn't any good in college. It stood to reason that he wouldn't be any good in the NFL. If you want to compare someone in this draft to Ponder or Manuel, it would be Hackenberg or Cardale Jones. Hackenberg has been terrible, but will probably jump up draft boards. We need to pray to the gods that Dallas doesn't take him. The Top 3 QBs is this draft all have excellent potential and there is now chatter that Wentz may be the first quarterback off the board before Dallas gets to pick. Wentz is also an Academic All American.

The QB position is always a risk as they tend to jump up draft boards due to need. In '87 there was a large contingent of the sports media who were upset the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman over Tony Mandarich, who was considered the "greatest offensive line prospect ever" at the time.
Flacco is on that list, and I said for every 1 of Flacco there are numerous QBs that don't work out. I agree, I thought the same thing about Manuel and Ponder, but guys that got paid millions of dollars, and scouts that do this thing for a living thought they saw something that they could develop because they were so desperate for a QB. Am I a better talent evaluator than those guys? No, of course not. I don't know who Carson Wentz is. Who did he play against? Probably the equivalent of Allen H.S.(They're best competition was like Youngstown St, I might have been able to play college football for half the teams that he played against).

Nothing he does between now and draft day is going to convince me that spending a top 10 pick on a QB that didn't play against good competition in college is a good idea. There are great cornerbacks, dlinmen, linebackers in this class that can start for you for 10+ years.
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BMX Bandit
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10:13a, 1/22/16
Most had Tannehill going in first round, but not top 10

McShay actually mocked him to the Dolphins.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 10:40a, 1/22/16
quote:
quote:
quote:
Im not talking about FCS quarterbacks. Im talking about QBs that got a huge lift b/n the last college game and the draft bc teams really need a qb. Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, etc

Sorry for the confusion.


Add Flacco to that list.

Also, there is a difference there. The casual viewer could tell that guys like Ponder and Manuel weren't any good and that Flacco and McNair were talents. I went to the same high school as Christian Ponder. He wasn't any good in high school. He wasn't any good in college. It stood to reason that he wouldn't be any good in the NFL. If you want to compare someone in this draft to Ponder or Manuel, it would be Hackenberg or Cardale Jones. Hackenberg has been terrible, but will probably jump up draft boards. We need to pray to the gods that Dallas doesn't take him. The Top 3 QBs is this draft all have excellent potential and there is now chatter that Wentz may be the first quarterback off the board before Dallas gets to pick. Wentz is also an Academic All American.

The QB position is always a risk as they tend to jump up draft boards due to need. In '87 there was a large contingent of the sports media who were upset the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman over Tony Mandarich, who was considered the "greatest offensive line prospect ever" at the time.
Flacco is on that list, and I said for every 1 of Flacco there are numerous QBs that don't work out. I agree, I thought the same thing about Manuel and Ponder, but guys that got paid millions of dollars, and scouts that do this thing for a living thought they saw something that they could develop because they were so desperate for a QB. Am I a better talent evaluator than those guys? No, of course not. I don't know who Carson Wentz is. Who did he play against? Probably the equivalent of Allen H.S.(They're best competition was like Youngstown St, I might have been able to play college football for half the teams that he played against).

Nothing he does between now and draft day is going to convince me that spending a top 10 pick on a QB that didn't play against good competition in college is a good idea. There are great cornerbacks, dlinmen, linebackers in this class that can start for you for 10+ years.


To be fair to Wentz, he did go 3-0 or 4-0 against FBS opponents. I know he beat Iowa State, Kansas State, and (if you really want to count them) Kansas. There might be another one in there somewhere. Not to knock the Big XII, but the best teams in the FCS would finish middle of the pack in that conference. Heck, Jax State was a drop away from beating Auburn.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on knowing about him. I'm one of those guys who watches football every weekend, so the North Dakota State's, Montana's, and Jacksonville State's of the world are a known quantity to me, but most likely not to Joe College Fan or whatever who doesn't care about FCS football.

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Macarthur
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 10:47a, 1/22/16
quote:
without a doubt by draft time they'll hype him up to be a top 10 player and some poor team will jump on him. Pray it aint the cowboys.

Any particular reason why?

I've watched film of Wentz and if he did not go to a FCS school, I think he's the top guy over Goff. Go watch him. I think he's legit. Prob needs to sit for one year, but the guy really does have everything you need. He's accurate; throws with anticipation. He's also deceptively athletic. Got a big arm.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:03p, 1/22/16
quote:
quote:
without a doubt by draft time they'll hype him up to be a top 10 player and some poor team will jump on him. Pray it aint the cowboys.

Any particular reason why?

I've watched film of Wentz and if he did not go to a FCS school, I think he's the top guy over Goff. Go watch him. I think he's legit. Prob needs to sit for one year, but the guy really does have everything you need. He's accurate; throws with anticipation. He's also deceptively athletic. Got a big arm.


That seems to be the consensus among draft experts. The only real negative appears to be where he played.
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Macarthur
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3:15p, 1/22/16
Yeah, and I think having a guy like Romo to learn from because he was a small school guy, would be great.
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BMX Bandit
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3:24p, 1/22/16
I don't want them taking a QB in first two rounds. They have a chance to draft instant difference makers to make a super bowl run while Romo still playing
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 3:25p, 1/22/16
quote:
I don't want them taking a QB in first two rounds. They have a chance to draft instant difference makers to make a super bowl run while Romo still playing


This is probably how Jerry is thinking.
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Reginald Cousins
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4:16p, 1/22/16
S
Treadwell followed by Henry?
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to Reginald Cousins • 4:19p, 1/22/16
We aint winning a superbowl unless we get better on d
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Macarthur
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 4:46p, 1/22/16
quote:
I don't want them taking a QB in first two rounds. They have a chance to draft instant difference makers to make a super bowl run while Romo still playing

If you could tell me Romo will play 15 games each of the next two seasons, I'm right there with you.

I don't think there is any way in hell that happens. I'm a huge Romo fan, but I think he is very close to done. Done.
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DannyDuberstein
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4:57p, 1/22/16
AG
I too think Romo is basically done. Between his back and shoulder, he just can't take a hit anymore. And that means that even when he's on the field, we're likely to see too much "duck and cover Tony" (the pick 6 guy we saw on Thanksgiving before getting hurt) for them to do anything significant. I'm resigned to the fact that it's time to move on, and it's been 25 years since they had a top 5 pick. If there is a QB that looks like he is top 5 worthy, go for it. This is a QB league.
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Reginald Cousins
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In reply to RedlineAg08 • 4:58p, 1/22/16
S
I find it laughable. The defense performed well enough to win most every game this year. Including New England. There comes a point when all you can muster is 3-9 points that a defense lays down.
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BMX Bandit
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5:08p, 1/22/16
If I thought any QB looked like top 5, I might feel differently
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mavsfan4ever
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5:18p, 1/22/16
AG
I'd love to get Treadwell. We definitely need a legit #2 receiver.
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 5:29p, 1/22/16
100% agree.
I dont believe there is a QB worthy of a top 5 pick so Id rather fet a shut down corner or A'shaun Robinson who can control the line of scrimmage for years to come.

I was against a corner a while back but that clemson corner is legit.

I think going WR is a waste. You dont need Treadwell when you have Dez. There are other options later that can help if they dont think Terrance Williams is enough. I think he is when he's the #2 and Dez is healthy.

Edit:
I get too worked up about the cowboys and the draft.. Im done lol, jerry dont care bout me, and ill be drawn back in to cheering them on regardkess.
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BassCowboy33
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8:17p, 1/22/16
It should also be noted that this team should be about more than Romo. A foundation is there, especially offensively, to be very good for the next decade or more, but that's only true if you find your next signal caller. You can have the best defense in the league, but that doesn't mean anything in today's NFL if you don't have a quarterback.

You can draft with the next 1-2 years in mind, and that very well may work, but by not getting a quarterback you are making the next 5+ after that an even bigger waste.

The question then becomes, do you draft for Romo (the next 1-3 years) at the expense of your talented and young offense or do you draft for the next 10+ years and continue laying a foundation for success after the Romo era, but with the realization that you're drafting for the Dallas Cowboys and not just Tony Romo?

The biggest mistake the average fan makes is thinking that you shouldn't take a quarterback, because "they aren't worth that high of a pick". That simply isn't true. Quarterback is the most valuable position in the NFL and it's not close. That is why they shoot up draft boards. It's why guys like Bortles and Flacco shoot up the boards. It's why teams take chances on terrible college quarterbacks like Manuel, Ponder, and probably Hackenberg. The evidence is simply not there for waiting on quarterbacks until the mid rounds.
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TheCougarHunter
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10:52p, 1/22/16
AG
Treadwell. Defenses have been able to focus on shutting down Dez because we don't have any other real big threat playmakers on offense. You add Treadwell and defense won't be able to shut both of them down. Terrance Williams just isn't as good as we once thought. Treadwell is the answer. Corner is a need as well and I wouldn't be upset if they got the guy from Clemson...but Treadwell is the way to go
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to TheCougarHunter • 12:19a, 1/23/16
quote:
Treadwell. Defenses have been able to focus on shutting down Dez because we don't have any other real big threat playmakers on offense. You add Treadwell and defense won't be able to shut both of them down. Terrance Williams just isn't as good as we once thought. Treadwell is the answer. Corner is a need as well and I wouldn't be upset if they got the guy from Clemson...but Treadwell is the way to go


When the offense was healthy, Dez did fine opposite Williams. Fans need not make a rush to judgment based on one injury plagued season.

Now, about Treadwell. He's the most NFL ready receiver in the draft, but there are two downsides with him:

(1) You're spending a Top 5 pick on a player who most likely will not be on your team after year 4. This is a tad presumptuous, but assuming Treadwell does reach full potential, Dallas won't be able to pay him when he hits free agency; a classic problem of...

(2) Having two #1 receivers with identical skill sets. While this could very easily work, you're basically drafting someone with the exact same skill set as Bryant. With Williams likely gone after this coming season, Dallas will need to draft another receiver to fill the open field playmaking that Williams brings. In the words of Troy Aikman, "When he has the ball, Williams is the best open field receiver in the league. The problem is he has to catch the ball."

(3) this also leads to the same argument that people have on the QBs, which is that taking Treadwell at #4 is just too high.

Personally, I think Dallas could take a number of players at that point to be successful. Whether it's Treadwell, Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Ramsey, Jack, or Bosa, Dallas will have a great opportunity to fill a need.
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Panama Red
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3:59a, 1/23/16
AG
Why wouldn't they be able to pay Treadwell after year 4? Dez would be done with his contract and 30 years old.
He wouldn't be commanding top dollar in most likelihood at that point.


I'm not saying draft Treadwell, just that I disagree with your assessment we couldn't keep him after 4 years
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BMX Bandit
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4:26a, 1/23/16
Any of the DTs worth grabbing at 4?
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RedlineAg08
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 4:47a, 1/23/16
Robert Nkemdiche, A'shawn Robinson, maybe Jarran Reed.

We have Tyrone Crawford, so we really need that nose tackle is why i lole Robinson best.
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corleoneAg99
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5:23a, 1/23/16
AG
Marinelli passed on Shariff Floyd because his scheme does not highly value the 1 tech. If they go D it will be pass rush or cover hybrid like Ramsey IMO.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Panama Red • 8:34a, 1/23/16
quote:
Why wouldn't they be able to pay Treadwell after year 4? Dez would be done with his contract and 30 years old.
He wouldn't be commanding top dollar in most likelihood at that point.


I'm not saying draft Treadwell, just that I disagree with your assessment we couldn't keep him after 4 years


Dangerous game. There are plenty of receivers who play at a very high level into 35-38. The position doesn't take the toll that other offensive positions take. Receivers stay in their prime longer than others. Owens, Rice, Fitzgerald to a lesser extent, Moss, etc. all played well into their mid to late 30's.


The Age of Decline for WR

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/08/27/age-of-decline-wr/
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to corleoneAg99 • 8:34a, 1/23/16
quote:
Marinelli passed on Shariff Floyd because his scheme does not highly value the 1 tech. If they go D it will be pass rush or cover hybrid like Ramsey IMO.


Some mocks have Bosa falling to Dallas at #4, which would be nice.
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corleoneAg99
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10:30a, 1/23/16
AG
The guy who would have been optimal is Jaylon Smith but I guess he'll fall...Myles Jack is also interesting but again is he a take at 4 with the injury?

Still the Carson Wentz hype is already insane and Dallas is coaching him next week.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to corleoneAg99 • 11:19a, 1/23/16
quote:
The guy who would have been optimal is Jaylon Smith but I guess he'll fall...Myles Jack is also interesting but again is he a take at 4 with the injury?

Still the Carson Wentz hype is already insane and Dallas is coaching him next week.


It's crazy. From what I read from scouts, it seems that had he played at any FBS school, he'd be the unanimous #1. The only concerns seem to be his competition.
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